Kirby on Road America and American Racing Scene

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

I can recall when everyone was calling for sunglasses because the future was so bright with the new DP01, Korea, China, and....

never mind....

The perception was after getting the dp01 and tv deal in the bag last fall, there was ass slapping and high 5's all around and then everyone went on vacation till spring training. May not have been the reality, but it looked that way. A great opportunity to move forward was there and they fumbled it all.

I don't see SJ as a fall guy. I have known people with personal experience with SJ and some may consider him to be an excellent dealmaker and sales guy, he is as worthless as tits on a boar hog when it comes to organization and management, especially of the workforce. And that's no personal attack on him, only that people have strengths and weaknesses. The appointment of Cotman fixes what was lacked.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

An admission of defeat of a concept, is often as constructive, as carrying on when the mountain of evidence is suggesting success goals are unattainable. We all know that Open Wheel as a whole is suffering, and we all agree that one series is the best way to go.

Frankly, I think it is more constructive to close shop on what appears to be a deteriorating situation, and have all efforts focused on whatever remains for Open Wheel, for the long-term strength and success of Open Wheel as a whole. Continuing to pour money at a losing situation is what I call not constructive.

For those that pontificate the view of, we've had enough let tony have it, will do zip to further the sport in america. For those that think champcar has problems, the irl is no better off and has plenty of problems of their own. For instance just recently it emerged that many of the stars of the 1990's and recent are looking to leave the irl for nascar and D&R are probably cutting back to one car. It's no whiz bang solution that will suddenly vault open wheel racing back to the forefront of public interest

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by indycool

That's not all he's saying, D.R.T. The things John mentioned have an effect on the enjoyment of the series to some. Indeed, who is racing, what they're racing, and how exciting the sport looks on TV are all critical to one's enjoyment.

A forum is also a place to express disillusionment as well as cheerlead. It's a place for discussion of those things.

If they do then they are not watching the same tv program then. The racing this year with the new car has been way better than with the old Lola. It's the best racing in years and we've had some great races. F1 is unbelievably boring by comparision. No action.

I would say if your disillusionment is such that it affects your ability to enjoy the racing while watching it, either 1 of 2 things is going on:
1. You are not watching at all, only blowharding about the same stuff you did 4 years ago with the end game being the death of champcar.
2. If you are watching, then I certainly don't want you to, because I am a caring person and do not want to see you in such pain.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by indycool

luke, KK DID project 24-26 cars. Go back and read some of the news releases on the DP-01 and all the cheerleading. You say "we" hoped for 22 cars. Most on the forums, including your "we," whoever that is, DID believe 22 more than KK's number. Turned out to be 17 that included two teams scaling down to one car and merging, Forsythe threatening to run only one and PCM jumping in on whoever's money to run at the back.

Bourdais winning? Same song.

What misinformation?

Regarding the TV, again, read the CC news releases. They're online.

The DP-01, new TV deal and cheaper costs were not preseason hype? From what you responded, you didn't buy it, either.

He hoped for 24-26, but realistically believed 18-22 was likely.

Ultimately I don't care. I hope for a lot of things too, but that doesn't mean they automatically happen right friggen now. Jensen is working on getting a car for the last 3 races and Conquest aiming to get another car going soon. So that's 19. Walker is talking to Craig Gore about doing 3 cars next year.

You complain because the champcar owners have too much influence in the series, but then you complain when they don't shell out to have some exact number of cars on the grid. So what's it gonna be?

[luke]

Originally Posted by indycool

luke, KK DID project 24-26 cars. Go back and read some of the news releases on the DP-01 and all the cheerleading. You say "we" hoped for 22 cars. Most on the forums, including your "we," whoever that is, DID believe 22 more than KK's number. Turned out to be 17 that included two teams scaling down to one car and merging, Forsythe threatening to run only one and PCM jumping in on whoever's money to run at the back.

9-10 more cars that this is crazy no one said there would be that many.

Bourdais winning? Same song.

Seb did dominate the last race but the title chase is very close and he hasn't dominated this season by far. The DP 01 has allowed others to be competitive.

What misinformation?

You know what I'm talking about IC.

Regarding the TV, again, read the CC news releases. They're online.

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/N...e.asp?ID=12070 sounds pretty good to me

The DP-01, new TV deal and cheaper costs were not preseason hype? From what you responded, you didn't buy it, either.

There was no preseason hype. Things just didn't turn out the way they were meant to because SJ didn't speak for 3 months in the off season and there was zero news, thats not how to run a series when it's supposed to be the take off year.

[JohnSSC]

Ok, so some of the posters here talk of a "beat down" with the implication that anyone who posits that CC is not in real good shape is doing that to the posts of others. Meanwhile, the same folks doing the complaining parse the posts quote-by-quote...a case of the pot calling the kettle black, methinks.

No pre-season hype?? Are you kidding? Remember the famous KK statement regarding the limit to the number of cars that could compete because the response was so good? Not more cars from the same teams but new teams - Minardi was to be a "new" team not the purchase of an existing team. Further, Forsythe significantly cut back on operations not adding a second car until the last moment, otherwise we would see 16, not 17 cars. Beyond that we have the small matter of doing the schedule every year on a chalkboard...

And if I may, it was not me who said the "big teams are all gone." I could care less what they name the teams. Nor am I at all "offended by the existence of CC." What I am offended by is all the PR pablum that has been fed to us about the season both before and during. CC raised expectations - period. When some of us disputed that we were told that things were different. Well they are not. Johnson has come and gone, Cotman has been an improvement but he still gets his checks from the hobby racers.

This is not about putting forward the notion of "letting Tony have it." It IS about wishing somebody would get their crap together and do open wheel racing justice. Right now, all CC is doing is taking attention away from what should be a rebuilding rather than what it has become: essentially a Series that is failing. It is like selling tickets to watch Hospice care - some days the patient does well, but for the most part the result is a foregone conclusion. Has the racing been good? At times, yes but geez. The car was and is unreliable, was poorly tested and wouldn't even take fuel properly. Races have seen nearly half the field or better wiped out by incompetent driving or mechanical failures.

You know, the purpose of this forum is to discuss what is going on, not to act as some sort of sanctuary for the worship of CC or IRL or any form of racing. Go to any other forum here and you will find folks calling it as they see it. Period.

[Oldtony]

Reading the posts here I get the impression that most of the critics of CCWS are only looking inward at the US, and maybe grudgingly Canada. Do you think it would be better if you dropped the W, got rid of all those foriegners, went back to Ovals only and had a stronger domestic series by combining IRL and CC*S.
Every country has some form of domestic open wheeler series, and there are continental series. Internationaly A1GP and GP2 make claims to being "Wor"ld" series. At present CCWS is the only form of US racing that seems to be making any effort to attract an international audience and participation.
Is this the Series problem?

[luke]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Ok, so some of the posters here talk of a "beat down" with the implication that anyone who posits that CC is not in real good shape is doing that to the posts of others. Meanwhile, the same folks doing the complaining parse the posts quote-by-quote...a case of the pot calling the kettle black, methinks.

NO. we are not talking about anyone who doesn't say Champ Car isn't in good shape beats down the series. We didn't say that. Oh comes on a rant again. It's well 'known' those that beat down Champ Car 100% of posts, and are even part of a different area. Not to name anybody. That is different John to posting constructive criticism and support every now and then like say moi and enjoy the racing. When it gets posted in racing topics that annoys me as there is just ill-intent. When was the last time you posted anythig positive about CC? If you are posting 'constrictive criticism' funny how you never mention any negatives of the IRL next door. Can we please just enjoy Champ car?

No pre-season hype?? Are you kidding? Remember the famous KK statement regarding the limit to the number of cars that could compete because the response was so good? Not more cars from the same teams but new teams - Minardi was to be a "new" team not the purchase of an existing team. Further, Forsythe significantly cut back on operations not adding a second car until the last moment, otherwise we would see 16, not 17 cars. Beyond that we have the small matter of doing the schedule every year on a chalkboard...

There was no hype. There was confidence and support that the car count would increase with new teams and hopefully roll in to 20. There may have been forum members predicting 26 plus, that is their opinion.

And if I may, it was not me who said the "big teams are all gone." I could care less what they name the teams. Nor am I at all "offended by the existence of CC." What I am offended by is all the PR pablum that has been fed to us about the season both before and during. CC raised expectations - period. When some of us disputed that we were told that things were different. Well they are not. Johnson has come and gone, Cotman has been an improvement but he still gets his checks from the hobby racers.

The 'hobby racers', yeah you could do a better job at running Champ Car.

This is not about putting forward the notion of "letting Tony have it." It IS about wishing somebody would get their crap together and do open wheel racing justice. Right now, all CC is doing is taking attention away from what should be a rebuilding rather than what it has become: essentially a Series that is failing. It is like selling tickets to watch Hospice care - some days the patient does well, but for the most part the result is a foregone conclusion. Has the racing been good? At times, yes but geez. The car was and is unreliable, was poorly tested and wouldn't even take fuel properly. Races have seen nearly half the field or better wiped out by incompetent driving or mechanical failures.

NO. That was 1 race, Las Vegas. I was personally disapointed that there were still problems for the first race, but with any new car there are problems. The GP2 car had a lot of problems in the first races. There were issues but there would be for any new car for a full field.

You know, the purpose of this forum is to discuss what is going on, not to act as some sort of sanctuary for the worship of CC or IRL or any form of racing. Go to any other forum here and you will find folks calling it as they see it. Period.

We try to enjoy Champ Car, I long for a time when Champ car fans can enjoy discussing the sport without rants or bashing every topic.

[Knowlesy]

In terms of hype, I think there was a very definite bigging up of things last year.

Now, personally, I would have been happy and encouraged by a little tiny step forward for the series. What is worrying is nothing seems to be moving on and there is seemingly no real urgency to proceedings.

I remember in 2005 I felt really positive about where the series was going. It was starting to feel a bit more right and recover after a bad two or three years. But it seemed to go backwards a bit in 2006 and this year feels no different.

We can certainly say that NASCAR makes things difficult for AOWR. We can also say having a rival series is detrimental. But the fact is, there is no management nous to take this series back to where it belongs. Champcar, at this moment in time, is ambling along with no particular place to go.

I can't understand so many of the decisions taken over the past few years.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

This is not about putting forward the notion of "letting Tony have it." It IS about wishing somebody would get their crap together and do open wheel racing justice. Right now, all CC is doing is taking attention away from what should be a rebuilding rather than what it has become: essentially a Series that is failing.

So is it up to CC to fix all of open wheel racing's problems ? You agree that CC should not give up just to let "Tony have it". So why say is it best for CC to pack up shop say opposed to IRL? Both clearly are struggling in the American sporting landscape. I understand this is CC forum to discuss CC only but I feel that mention of the IRL and its position is highly relevant to this discussion.

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Has the racing been good? At times, yes but geez. The car was and is unreliable, was poorly tested and wouldn't even take fuel properly. Races have seen nearly half the field or better wiped out by incompetent driving or mechanical failures.

The car is pretty reliable these days. The last sentence is something not confined to CC

[2112]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Reading the posts here I get the impression that most of the critics of CCWS are only looking inward at the US, and maybe grudgingly Canada. Do you think it would be better if you dropped the W, got rid of all those foriegners, went back to Ovals only and had a stronger domestic series by combining IRL and CC*S.
Every country has some form of domestic open wheeler series, and there are continental series. Internationaly A1GP and GP2 make claims to being "Wor"ld" series. At present CCWS is the only form of US racing that seems to be making any effort to attract an international audience and participation.
Is this the Series problem?

In their defence, Nascar/ISC is locking them out of their tracks. Other ovals either have the IRL, or CCWS would have to use it as a rental. The market here is saturated with Nascar, and since oval racing dominates, so does the IRL`s position. So what is left?...look for places that want the product the series offers. But by no means do I think it`s the right course. If the Euro rounds are a smashing success I may change my opinion.
I`m for biting the bullet and admitting that the series should be the undercard at a few events with ALMS to have them race more in proper race tracks, and more in America. Their presence is sorly needed in places like Sebring, Road Atlanta, Lime Rock. Right now, most of racing occurs on the west coast and upper mid-west. A good analogy would be if you lived in Sydney, and most of the racing is in Western Australia and Northern Territory. How popular would that series be?

[JohnSSC]

Tell you what. I will refrain from attacking the poster here, but let's just say that the childish comments such as: "yeah, you could do a better job of running champ car" are just an attempt to flame me or anyone else here who actually does not share your point of view.

Secondly, I do not need to justify posts that are viewed as negative by anyone here with a list of posts that would be judged as positive in order to balance it. I post here because there are opposing views. I don't post at CW, for example, because it is pretty one-sided and to be honest, a rather mean group insofar as how anyone who dares to have an opposing view is treated.

No, DRT, it is not up to CC to fix the problems of open wheel. For one, CC can't even fix their own problems. For another, what I am saying is that I don't care WHO fixes it but someone needs to. What I do resent is the assumption that just because CC is not doing the job and I say so does not mean I think that TG is "the answer." Again, making statements like that just fits in with the hurl random accusations and let him respond sort of method of discussion rather than engaging in an actual give and take on the issues.

CC did a lousy job of testing the new car - if you want to discuss reliability issues vis a vis other series, then go to the appropriate fora and do so. I was not comparing CC to other series and making a better/worse comparison. When you have only 17 cars on the grid reliability is a major issue.

Perhaps CC should pack it in. Perhaps the IRL should. Perhaps we have reached a point in the life of open wheel that nobody really gives a rat's arse what happens as they are all off watching NASCAR. Meanwhile, let the hobby racers and TG slug it out. In the end, it looks more and more like it will be the Sound and the Fury - a lot of drama over nothing...

[luke]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Tell you what. I will refrain from attacking the poster here, but let's just say that the childish comments such as: "yeah, you could do a better job of running champ car" are just an attempt to flame me or anyone else here who actually does not share your point of view.

Yeah, you made it obvious by posting my quote. But the truth is like you can do a better job? Yet now that's flaming? What I don't understand is if you wish to flame the CC leaders and just call 'em hobby racers what do you expect?

Secondly, I do not need to justify posts that are viewed as negative by anyone here with a list of posts that would be judged as positive in order to balance it. I post here because there are opposing views. I don't post at CW, for example, because it is pretty one-sided and to be honest, a rather mean group insofar as how anyone who dares to have an opposing view is treated.

You're the one who mentions why you post here all the time John and 'cw' not tf?

No, DRT, it is not up to CC to fix the problems of open wheel. For one, CC can't even fix their own problems. For another, what I am saying is that I don't care WHO fixes it but someone needs to. What I do resent is the assumption that just because CC is not doing the job and I say so does not mean I think that TG is "the answer." Again, making statements like that just fits in with the hurl random accusations and let him respond sort of method of discussion rather than engaging in an actual give and take on the issues.

It's very easy for you to sit on your pc chair and say Champ Car has to do this and that and take over a thread. DRT wasn't making any auctions by mentioning the irl, it's true though. the IRL is in no better state, yet you never go on and on about how irl should do this and that and pick holes at every chance. Food for thought?

CC did a lousy job of testing the new car - if you want to discuss reliability issues vis a vis other series, then go to the appropriate fora and do so. I was not comparing CC to other series and making a better/worse comparison. When you have only 17 cars on the grid reliability is a major issue.

We weren't discussing what its like with new cars in all different championships. And don't tell me where to post. It's funny you bash CC for the car being unreliable yet this happens with every new car, oh no wait that's allowed to be said is it? Seems to me you just wish to pick a hole in any situation even if it is notable that for every new car there are problems even on first day race weekends.

Perhaps CC should pack it in. Perhaps the IRL should. Perhaps we have reached a point in the life of open wheel that nobody really gives a rat's arse what happens as they are all off watching NASCAR. Meanwhile, let the hobby racers and TG slug it out. In the end, it looks more and more like it will be the Sound and the Fury - a lot of drama over nothing...

Let the hobby racers and TG slug it out? You make out that they are at war with each other. And to discuss over and over one series is going to die just gets boring. Champ Car is a racing series, oh no wait we can't enjoy it can we..

[indycool]

The idea that the DP-01 wasn't billed as the second coming is preposterous. "Car of the Future." Teams are going to flock to our doorstep. Again, the news releases are posted at the CC site.

China was hailed as the great move into Asia. Just like Ansan was three straight years.

I read a release last month where CC finally got an Australian TV deal starting with Edmonton, the eighth race of the season.

The ABC/ESPN TV deal was supposed to be the answer to the TV problem, but Road America was a .4 on ABC.

As far as international vs. national series goes, the emphasis seems to be TRYING to go international but it reverts back to records like Ted Horn from the old AAA national championship series.

It'd be nice to know what CC is trying to be and it'd be easier to judge whether it's reaching any goals. Is it a competitor of the IRL? Or is it going its own way? Now it's a road racing series. It used to be roads and ovals. Does that make it a competitor of Formula One? Or does CC, like CART before it, want to fight everybody.

[Knowlesy]

This isn't about not wanting to enjoy it luke.

As John has said, he has enjoyed some races this season. It's not as simple as enjoying a race or two though.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by luke

the IRL is in no better state,

This shouldn't be a IRL vs. CCWS thread, but the IRL from a business and viability perspective is in FAR better shape.

[luke]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

This shouldn't be a IRL vs. CCWS thread, but the IRL from a business and viability perspective is in FAR better shape.

I didn't just say that, it was in the middle of my big post and seeing as everyone was saying how lame CC and saying they need to pick up AOWR just remember the IRL is in no better shape...now you made it into a IRL vs CC thread.

[Purist]

Knowlesy, John could make it that simple if he wanted to. The fact of the matter is he's choosing to make it more complicated, at some level. I'm not saying he should or shouldn't, but it is his choice to pursue this line, and to do so openly in the public domain.

Fine John, we get the message. In that case, I have something to ask of you. Give us concrete actions that need to be taken. Indicate specific events to be kept or dropped, as well as specific sponsors, teams, and people to court. Who should CART have running its short-term and long-term operations? Who should be the figurehead? Who should be the "board of directors", if it's not the people who are actually spending their money to keep the series in existence (the team owners)? Which venues should or shouldn't the series be at? Which new ones will work, and what back-ups in given key markets do you see? What TV networks should be brought on board, if not the current crop?

Hey, I'm not pretending to know everything. I insulate myself pretty well by not having very many specific expectations about what will happen, both in regards to this series, and in life in general. I may be mildly disappointed on occasion, but I am able to welcome any new additions. John, since you've been doing such a good job, I defer to you for guidance and answers in these matters. Keep up the good work, and I await your coming responses with great interest.

[indycool]

Purist, I'll try to help start John:

Concrete actions that need to be taken -- I don't know. It MAY be past that.

Specific events that should be kept or dropped -- CC hasn't fulfilled its announced schedule one time since it started. It inherited some money-losing races from CART and had to keep some (like Portland) to fill out a schedule. Some of its new events worked (like Edmonton), some haven't. But the scramble is to find promoters to hold their events, not make decisions on what should be kept or dropped...that isn't the choice to be made.

Specific sponsors to court -- I don't think it's for lack of trying to find sponsors. I'm sure they've scoured all of KK's Silicon Valley connections and Forsythe's Canadian connections. I'm sure they've made proposals. I believe they've worked at it and just been told no.

Specific teams to court -- Bachelart/Conquest is the only team to move from the IRL to CC. I would think they would probably go to the Atlantic list, as they projected that teams would move up. I don't see F1 putting "B" teams in there, or IRL teams jumping, or anything out of the blue.

Specific people to court -- See specific sponsors to court. If you mean executives, I doubt that the ex-SCCA types in there are going to conquer the world and I think there's also unreasonable expectations of them to do so. The Peter Ueberroths and Pete Rozelles don't come along very often and when those of their type do, they don't last long with the powers that be. These powers act no different.

Running short- and long-term operations -- Cotman seems respected for the way he runs the races. Long-term? Too many short-term things to fix financially and administratively to deal with long-term.

The figurehead used to be Eidswick and is now Johnson as the fallguys. BoD? The series owners might as well do it. They're making all the calls, anyway and it's their money.

Venues -- See events above. There ARE no backups when you hafta schedule a street race for Dec. 2 in Phoenix.

TV Networks -- The current crop is the best they've had with ABC and ESPN. A 0.4 rating from Road America on ABC? 'Spose ABC will blame CC and vice versa. That's the way it usually goes.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Purist

Knowlesy, John could make it that simple if he wanted to. The fact of the matter is he's choosing to make it more complicated, at some level. I'm not saying he should or shouldn't, but it is his choice to pursue this line, and to do so openly in the public domain.

Fine John, we get the message. In that case, I have something to ask of you. Give us concrete actions that need to be taken. Indicate specific events to be kept or dropped, as well as specific sponsors, teams, and people to court. Who should CART have running its short-term and long-term operations? Who should be the figurehead? Who should be the "board of directors", if it's not the people who are actually spending their money to keep the series in existence (the team owners)? Which venues should or shouldn't the series be at? Which new ones will work, and what back-ups in given key markets do you see? What TV networks should be brought on board, if not the current crop?

Hey, I'm not pretending to know everything. I insulate myself pretty well by not having very many specific expectations about what will happen, both in regards to this series, and in life in general. I may be mildly disappointed on occasion, but I am able to welcome any new additions. John, since you've been doing such a good job, I defer to you for guidance and answers in these matters. Keep up the good work, and I await your coming responses with great interest.

Wonderful idea. Since I've had to listen to john complain about champcar every day for five years, it would be nice to know what your "end game" is and the strategic plan is to solve the "problem". I too await your responses as well.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

This shouldn't be a IRL vs. CCWS thread, but the IRL from a business and viability perspective is in FAR better shape.

From what I hear first hand from people in that business, the irl is in no better shape. A lot of pretty paint jobs perhaps but not a lot of go. I've been told for instance Target contributes little if anything to the ganassi irl team and that the Nascar team pays all the bills of the irl team. If you look at their irrational decisions regarding Michigan, one must shake their head. And at the moment, they have a number of star drivers ready to pole vault out of there to Nascar. And they have scheduling problems. And an old car that loves to go suborbital. And I could go on.

If you believe the irl is in "FAR better shape" I can suggest you get to know some folks that work for teams in that series.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

So is it up to CC to fix all of open wheel racing's problems ? You agree that CC should not give up just to let "Tony have it". So why say is it best for CC to pack up shop say opposed to IRL? Both clearly are struggling in the American sporting landscape. I understand this is CC forum to discuss CC only but I feel that mention of the IRL and its position is highly relevant to this discussion.




The car is pretty reliable these days. The last sentence is something not confined to CC

Yes it seems since 1991 it has been CART/Champcar that always has to cowtow to mr. george. Why can't the irl pack it in instead and let the real cars return to the speedway? Seems to be simple enough right?

The bleating from those about the problems the panoz had obviously have short memories and haven't been around race cars much. What new pukka race car has been perfect out of the box? None that I know of. The dallara in the irl is not exactly a fun car to work on for instance.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

I don't post at CW, for example, because it is pretty one-sided and to be honest, a rather mean group insofar as how anyone who dares to have an opposing view is treated.

It isn't pretty one sided, IT IS ONE SIDED and it is that way for a reason. It's not for casual fans, it's for champcar fanatics only. It is not a mean group, it's just that "we" believe there are plenty of other places to discuss other series and their merits or demerits. trackforum likewise does the same for the irl and that is their purogitive.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by indycool

The idea that the DP-01 wasn't billed as the second coming is preposterous. "Car of the Future." Teams are going to flock to our doorstep. Again, the news releases are posted at the CC site.

China was hailed as the great move into Asia. Just like Ansan was three straight years.

I read a release last month where CC finally got an Australian TV deal starting with Edmonton, the eighth race of the season.

It'd be nice to know what CC is trying to be and it'd be easier to judge whether it's reaching any goals. Is it a competitor of the IRL? Or is it going its own way? Now it's a road racing series. It used to be roads and ovals. Does that make it a competitor of Formula One? Or does CC, like CART before it, want to fight everybody.

IT is a better car, much racier than the old Lola. As I posted before there are several more cars in the works for this year and the next. Not any "yellow wibbon wacing team" but actually teams that exist that are working deals.

Old news, we did in fact get a new deal now that surfers has switched from channel 10 to channel 7. Our Australian fans are now catered for.

I don't think champcar wants to fight anyone. They just want to do their own thing. It's a competitive open wheel road racing series. I think that's all they want to be. I don't think any glorious ambitions exist to dethrone F1 or whatever.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by indycool

Purist, I'll try to help start John:

Concrete actions that need to be taken -- I don't know. It MAY be past that.

Specific events that should be kept or dropped -- CC hasn't fulfilled its announced schedule one time since it started. It inherited some money-losing races from CART and had to keep some (like Portland) to fill out a schedule. Some of its new events worked (like Edmonton), some haven't. But the scramble is to find promoters to hold their events, not make decisions on what should be kept or dropped...that isn't the choice to be made.

Specific sponsors to court -- I don't think it's for lack of trying to find sponsors. I'm sure they've scoured all of KK's Silicon Valley connections and Forsythe's Canadian connections. I'm sure they've made proposals. I believe they've worked at it and just been told no.

Specific teams to court -- Bachelart/Conquest is the only team to move from the IRL to CC. I would think they would probably go to the Atlantic list, as they projected that teams would move up. I don't see F1 putting "B" teams in there, or IRL teams jumping, or anything out of the blue.

Specific people to court -- See specific sponsors to court. If you mean executives, I doubt that the ex-SCCA types in there are going to conquer the world and I think there's also unreasonable expectations of them to do so. The Peter Ueberroths and Pete Rozelles don't come along very often and when those of their type do, they don't last long with the powers that be. These powers act no different.

Running short- and long-term operations -- Cotman seems respected for the way he runs the races. Long-term? Too many short-term things to fix financially and administratively to deal with long-term.

The figurehead used to be Eidswick and is now Johnson as the fallguys. BoD? The series owners might as well do it. They're making all the calls, anyway and it's their money.

Venues -- See events above. There ARE no backups when you hafta schedule a street race for Dec. 2 in Phoenix.

TV Networks -- The current crop is the best they've had with ABC and ESPN. A 0.4 rating from Road America on ABC? 'Spose ABC will blame CC and vice versa. That's the way it usually goes.

Uhhhhhhhhhhh......... IC where are the concrete actions to take???? I don't see anything in that discourse that suggests any "concrete" actions for champcar to move on to improve the sport, just a lot of conjecture. Give me something "concrete" I can take to the champcar ownership and say "indycool said you need to do XYZ and here's why and here's how were gonna do it!"