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View Poll Results: Pick the champions! | |||
Audi Sport Team Joest | 79 | 50.32% | |
Toyota Racing | 42 | 26.75% | |
Porsche | 31 | 19.75% | |
Rebellion Racing | 2 | 1.27% | |
OAK Racing | 1 | 0.64% | |
The other guys... | 2 | 1.27% | |
Voters: 157. You may not vote on this poll |
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27 Jun 2014, 18:22 (Ref:3427251) | #1201 | ||
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Great series of pics Chiana. That perfectly illustrates why I often choose to watch another series' race over a WEC one, and in some instances another sport (eg: cycling or rallying).
Fortunate that those venues still have a decent sportscar field, but perfectly illustrates the reasons why I struggle to follow WEC. |
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27 Jun 2014, 18:38 (Ref:3427256) | #1202 | |
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Cycling is a great sport, but I don't watch it for the scenery.
Chiana, that one pic there was Road Atlanta through the esses. What has been done to hurt Road Atlanta? I have only been going a few years but it seems like there are lots of decent spectator spots. Regarding the rest of your argument, I have to agree. Tracks which are essentially painted in parking lots are just not that exciting, and often not very appealing to see---not ugly, just flat and sterile. As dull as watching dry paint. |
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27 Jun 2014, 19:08 (Ref:3427267) | #1203 | ||
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Maelochs, check Chiana's post again. He has three pictures after the first bit of text. Then, there is another line of text, and three more pictures below that. Road Atlanta is in that upper group: the "good" group. He's NOT criticizing Road Atlanta.
BTW, Chiana, which Tilkedromes are those you've posted pictures of? (Ok, I think I know which ones they are, but that's another issue.) You should be able to tell what circuit you're looking at; it shouldn't be work to figure it out. Last edited by Purist; 27 Jun 2014 at 19:14. |
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27 Jun 2014, 19:26 (Ref:3427270) | #1204 | ||
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Great arguments from you previously by the way, excellent stuff. |
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27 Jun 2014, 19:44 (Ref:3427272) | #1205 | ||
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I'm pretty sure the first "Tilkedrome" picture is from Silverstone, probably at the Arena complex.
I'm not disagreeing with the general point however - what's the use is going eleventy-hundred miles a second when the track is so far removed from anything that all sense of speed is lost? Those side-by-side comparisons really are damning; it's not the destination that matters, it's the journey. |
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27 Jun 2014, 19:52 (Ref:3427273) | #1206 | |
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Probably yeah? New Silverstone is garbage regardless.
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27 Jun 2014, 20:04 (Ref:3427275) | #1207 | |
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If paved runoff areas are needed for the safety - no problem for me. But I get the impression that paved runoffs are used even where they aren't needed at all. A perfect example is turn 1 at Interlagos. The paved runoffs adds nothing at all to the safety of the circuit, they could just as well have left it as gravel or grass. Apparently they're now just paving runoff areas because it is considered "modern".
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27 Jun 2014, 20:32 (Ref:3427284) | #1208 | |||
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Actually, Interlagos is a good example again. The tarmac runoff at the 2003 race didn't help m/any drivers... |
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27 Jun 2014, 21:42 (Ref:3427294) | #1209 | ||
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27 Jun 2014, 23:51 (Ref:3427316) | #1210 | ||
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My answers to Bahrain, Dubai, and the like are Riverside and Stardust. I know they're not around anymore, but no, desert tracks can be attractive. Willow Springs isn't bad either.
I think a compounding factor is that a number of these newer track layouts are unnecessarily complicated. Technicality for its own sake doesn't adds nothing. They tend to lack cambered corners, which has proven over the decades to be an invaluable asset to improving the racing, even road racing in many cases. And then the stupid thing about it is, they'll throw in one here or there, and technically, it's questionable whether a number of them are even legal under the FIA's own rules. Not to mention, Turn 8 at Istanbul is a cheat to get around the FIA's rule mandating that decreasing-radius corners be minimized, and if they are present, they must have a very low apex speed (like 75km/h). Back to run-offs for a second, half of Yeongam (Korean Int'l Circuit) doesn't meet the FIA's own new, Grade 1 circuit requirements for run-offs. It's absurdity at its best, or worst. And then they come up with these wide corner entries to aid overtaking, which they don't. You only see them used on the initial start, and even then, only at the first corner. Using them otherwise would compromise corner exit far too much. In addition, it violates a principal rule in track design, that being, you don't intentionally make the corner exit narrower than the corner entry. And when you look at the racing lines you get, it inherently increases the potential for mid-corner collisions. How is that a safety improvement? I can't consider Road America to be a "local" track. Maybe someplace like Nelson Ledges or Cadwell Park fits that bill, but don't put down circuits that have gotten a full FIA Grade 2 rating. Also, if you're going to question some of the tracks with that rating, well, what does that say about the validity of said rating system, or its true applicability to real safety? To go back to kind of what started this, is the Nordschleife really bumpier than several of the street circuits that the ALMS ran on? Finally, does it matter what the locals in a given area think? It's the FIA's designated designers who are determining that for those locals anyway. Tilke and the FIA KNOW BETTER, and yet, this is what we get. Last edited by Purist; 28 Jun 2014 at 00:11. |
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28 Jun 2014, 01:28 (Ref:3427342) | #1211 | |
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Fault the rule makers for the new tracks. But you have no choice of stepping up to their desires. The big name motorsport events pay the most. Half the tracks are government backed anyway. Not much you can change unless someone becomes a track designer. You can solve all this by not watching or attending events at those places, but then you may miss out on the quality series! "Whatta ya gonna do"?
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28 Jun 2014, 14:49 (Ref:3427488) | #1212 | ||
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Easy, you choice to ignore those series and watch 'lower profile' series on lower graded tracks. Or spend your time on something else. |
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28 Jun 2014, 16:27 (Ref:3427512) | #1213 | ||
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28 Jun 2014, 18:59 (Ref:3427566) | #1214 | |
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That's almost funny. I have called my wife over numerous times when the director features some amazing chateau or some gorgeous landscape, but she is never impressed.
I have realized I will need to take short local vacations to go riding or to see races and she will never go anywhere unless i can research some place with really good shopping. |
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28 Jun 2014, 19:32 (Ref:3427592) | #1215 | |||
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28 Jun 2014, 21:48 (Ref:3427643) | #1216 | ||
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28 Jun 2014, 22:33 (Ref:3427650) | #1217 | ||
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They're nearing a crossover point.
Honestly, yes, the cars in WEC are great, but a number of the tracks are not as great, or not as great anymore. Conversely, I'm certainly not as into WTCC for the cars. However, Suzuka has a great layout and setting, and hasn't added so much paved run-off (they're running the GP circuit this year, too). Spa has a great overall layout, setting, elevation changes, and not all the barriers are miles away, even now. Macau is pretty damn spectacular in its own way. Then, there's the Salzburgring. You know? In terms of the pure thrill of seeing the racing with that full package, I might just take WTCC at all four of those over WEC at Silverstone, Shanghai, or Fuji. I might take WTCC at Salzburgring and Macau over WEC at Silverstone, Shanghai, Fuji, Bahrain, and Austin. (And that's just this year. You've heard where the German round for the WTCC is to be held next year, right? Now THAT is a high bar to clear!) Funny thing is, since WEC is rather a sport for the hardcore, certainly compared to F1 or NASCAR, our input is much more important. If they can't draw us in sufficient numbers to (watch) their events, especially those outside Le Mans itself, their series WILL have a problem giving the sponsors RoI. And yes, I have every intention of becoming a track designer myself, also. Last edited by Purist; 28 Jun 2014 at 22:39. |
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1 Jul 2014, 05:17 (Ref:3428859) | #1218 | |
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1 Jul 2014, 06:01 (Ref:3428869) | #1219 | |
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By the time they get to COTA, people probably won't remember that WEC even exists. I'm amazed that they could come up with a calendar like this.
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1 Jul 2014, 06:04 (Ref:3428870) | #1220 | ||
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*Ready to get bored the next time they announce the calendar with same exact races in it (in whatever order) and Neveu repeating how they want to build tradition and stability around these events* Last edited by Deleted; 1 Jul 2014 at 06:26. |
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1 Jul 2014, 19:17 (Ref:3429150) | #1221 | ||
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Something interesting is that, by and large, the events in the early WSC were ALREADY the big events for the sport; the same was true of F1 when it started. Of course, with fewer notable events period, most of the "stand out" events at the time were the big events by default. When your calendar is made up of some mix of the Mille Miglia, Targa Florio, Le Mans, Carrera Panamericana, Tourist Trophy (at Dundrod, Goodwood, or Oulton Park), Sebring 12 Hours, Nurburgring 1000km, Daytona Continental/24 Hours, Monza 1000km, Spa 1000km, and the like, you've got all the strongest pieces in play. The product can more easily sell itself, and you don't have that negativity of some beloved event being left out, and people complaining about it. That's another thing, now, if an event isn't on the WEC calendar, it doesn't happen at all that year. Back in the 1950s and '60s, the races still happened, even if they weren't in the WSC every season. The ONLY race that that happens for anymore is Le Mans itself, and we wonder why it's so much stronger than any of the others?!
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1 Jul 2014, 19:53 (Ref:3429159) | #1222 | |||
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2 Jul 2014, 00:42 (Ref:3429242) | #1223 | |
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Brazil and Japan are probably the most notable races left imo. Fuji will be very popular thanks to Toyota and Brazil always has great enthusiasm. They need an event in Germany. Every factory lmp1 team is based in Germany, even TMG- Cologne. If Canada and Nurburgring are added it would add more to look forward to imo.
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2 Jul 2014, 01:05 (Ref:3429247) | #1224 | |
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COTA is nice too!! Although I didn't exactly watch the race last year. With 3 manufacturers, I'm in it till the end this year, now matter how log we have to wait.
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2 Jul 2014, 19:34 (Ref:3429591) | #1225 | |
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Definition of "sport": "sport (or sports) is all forms of usually competitive physical activity which, through casual or organised participation, aim to use, maintain or improve physical ability and skills while providing entertainment to participants, and in some cases, spectators".(Wikipedia)
IMO "Tilkodromes or butchered tracks" require less skills for the drivers, making motorsport less attractive as a sport. Last edited by ederss7; 2 Jul 2014 at 19:51. |
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