|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
19 Jun 2016, 21:23 (Ref:3653613) | #2276 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,434
|
Quote:
Let me rephrase: "Paid corporate shill and company liar Mike Hull told Sportscar365 .... " Yeah, Mike. The Racing Managing Director wouldn't have Anything to do with lodging a complaint. He'd for sure be totally out of that loop. Nothing personal, but really? Trying to win the Scotty A award? |
||
|
19 Jun 2016, 21:26 (Ref:3653614) | #2277 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,308
|
BoP works in GT3 because it's a customer class, so there isn't massive secrecy about the cars and you can't organize worldwide sandbagging.
The need for it in GTE is hugely exaggerated. It's there so weak manufacturers like AM and Dodge can compete, people act as if they've never seen Corvettes beat Saleens, DB9s beat Lambos, a Panoz win against Ferraris, years of 911/430 battles, etc. without any per car balancing. Where things go south is that while all of the above are proper road cars all making proper road car compromises, the Ford GT is a homologation special. The classification rules have been there a long time, as soon as the #5 had been on the front stretch a while I knew they were in trouble for even being scored. |
|
|
19 Jun 2016, 21:31 (Ref:3653617) | #2278 | |
Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,250
|
Not much to say that hasn't already been said. Completely gutted for the Toyota team. I love proper endurance racing, but to come so close to winning after persevering for five years.....that hurts.
GTEam was okay I guess. P2 was kind of frustrating, with the large speed advantage that the Orecas enjoyed. The GTE"pro" class fiasco was simply inexcusable. BOP and sandbagging have been a big part of GTE for awhile now, but never has it been so poorly executed and blatantly biased. The Hollywood script called for a revival of the famous "Ford vs. Ferrari rivalry of the sixties, coinciding nicely with the upcoming movie and the 50th anniversary of Fords overall victory. The advantage that the ACOs BOP meddling handed to Ford and a lesser extent Ferrari, wasn't just a slight edge, but several seconds every lap! Even after Fridays unprecedented mid event adjustment, the Fords nearly matched their pole "winning" qualifying time of 3:51.185. The top three Fords fastest race laps were a 3:51.840 from the #68, a 3:51,514 from the #69 and a 3:51.582 for the #66. One wonders if they could have maybe gone even faster if it had been necessary. For the ACO to grant that much of a speed edge, in a class that is supposed to be production based and offer a level playing field for the different types of engines and drivetrain placements, is astounding! The Lemans 24 hour race has always been special, but after this years GTE results, it has really lost a lot of its shine for me. |
|
|
19 Jun 2016, 22:09 (Ref:3653629) | #2279 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,308
|
For what it's worth, the LMP2 winner ran a best lap half a second off of pole as well and the GTE Am winner ran faster, it seems the track conditions during the race were likely better than during qualifying. The Friday BoP adjustment did a whole lot of nothing though. Not changing the boost limit at high revs always seemed kind of strange when the car had massive straight line speed and 10kg is nothing by comparison.
|
|
|
19 Jun 2016, 22:25 (Ref:3653636) | #2280 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,434
|
Well ... we all know we watched a staged Ferrari-Ford race in GTE-pro this year. Not much else to say about that.
Funniest part? The only people who know the history and care enough to care, are the people most offended by the fakery. On the whole, and massive publicity failure for Ford, FIA, and ACO. |
|
|
19 Jun 2016, 22:32 (Ref:3653639) | #2281 | |||||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,638
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A lot of questionable rulings have occurred at Le Mans over the years and decades. Don't let this year's edition affect you too much. We have to take the good with the bad. Last edited by Salamus; 19 Jun 2016 at 22:37. |
|||||
|
19 Jun 2016, 22:49 (Ref:3653643) | #2282 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,955
|
Looking at the previous races before Le Mans. It turned out that Laguna Seca was the best indicator of how the GTE race was going to turn out. Not the 2 WEC races (spa, silverstone)
|
|
|
19 Jun 2016, 22:52 (Ref:3653644) | #2283 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 914
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
19 Jun 2016, 23:08 (Ref:3653648) | #2284 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,742
|
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
19 Jun 2016, 23:10 (Ref:3653649) | #2285 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 272
|
What happened to Manthey and AF Corse?
both 4 cars early retirements |
||
|
19 Jun 2016, 23:30 (Ref:3653653) | #2286 | |
Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,250
|
The problem is, even the trouble free run that the #68 enjoyed was likely aided by the fact that the Fords did not need to push that hard. All things being more or less equal, who knows how the Fords may have fared if there had been more pressure. The Risi car, the #95 Aston and the #63 Vette all had pretty clean outings also.
|
|
|
19 Jun 2016, 23:37 (Ref:3653655) | #2287 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,250
|
Quote:
I'm sure I will feel a lot better about our sport in a few days. Especially since I'll be at Road America, watching some awesome GT3 machines and enjoying the worlds greatest bratwurst! Racing is so much better live and in person. |
||
|
19 Jun 2016, 23:46 (Ref:3653656) | #2288 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,925
|
The comparison between the bickering between the GTE teams vs the class act displays by Audi Sport, Porsche Motorsport, and TMG/TGR is totally night and day.
|
||
|
20 Jun 2016, 01:21 (Ref:3653685) | #2289 | |
Rookie
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 56
|
In GTE-Pro, I believe every team plays the same strategy. For example:
Aston Martin: Their race pace is 2 seconds(3.53) faster than the qualifiying and test day! 1183 kg, so 65 kg lighter than Ford. Fastest top speed by far Ferrari: Risi team improved their qualifiying lap about 1 second in race even with the limitations. Running nearly 0.2 bar more than the Fords across the whole rev range with higher displacement V8. They have the power advantage over the grid except Aston. This year on IMSA races Risi was slower than the Fords, but appeared to be at the same pace with BOP improved Fords during qualy. According to this Risi made even more sandbagging? Porsche and Corvette: they also made 3.53's and improved about 2-3 seconds from their qualy pace. Ford: their race and qualy pace are almost same even after the reduction of boost and increased weight. At the begginning of the WEC season Ford GT BOP was extremely restricted, you cant blame them more than the others. Car 66 and 67 came to pits because of illuminated number plates on one side not working and lost lot of time to repair it, why Risi did not come to pits to repair their leader lights? and they had a 20 sec. penalty only. In summary, I really wanted to see a Ford win and I think people blaming Ford team too much without telling anything to the other teams which are done similar thnigs. BUT! these BOP games and silly rules ruined the victory for Ford. At the and of the day; Not satisfied. |
|
|
20 Jun 2016, 01:34 (Ref:3653691) | #2290 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,143
|
2016 24 Hours of Le Mans
Bop will always be an issue,it comes with the territory of not being spec.but it seems there two issues here,bop and waivers.its sad but it is what it is.it just went over board this year.but I got to ask is this ford controversy any different than what the aco did with audi and the tdi diesel to the lmp1 class,eventually destroying the lmp1 class in alms and Le Mans......
On another note I feel the fia and aco going the route of Imsa with rules,regulations,and treatment of international or non WEC entrants.poor bop and unfavorable rules are ridiculous.i bet if corvette and porsche factory were running full season wec teams they would of gotten better bop. |
||
__________________
RACE CAR: noun: an automobile built or modified for racing. |
20 Jun 2016, 02:22 (Ref:3653707) | #2291 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,148
|
Quote:
During the day the pace was the same as earlier in the race. Look at the drivers in the car, Hand, Muller, Bourdais....Those guys don't have a second gear, they are on kill mode the entire race and they were flawless Look at the lap times on the chronological analysis on alkamel. |
||
|
20 Jun 2016, 02:28 (Ref:3653708) | #2292 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,308
|
Corvette did that 3:53 sometime around happy hour when the track was faster than any time during the test day or qualifying. For most of the race they only had one lap in the 54s that Garcia did on his first flier. They ran almost the entire race in the 56s, which makes their test day pace pretty representative compared to the Fords that went from 56s to pounding out 53s and 54s all day.
Aston Martins also very rarely went below 55s and 56s, but their BoP was changed so radically after the test day you can hardly compare anyways. They seem to have no downforce, which is why the car is disproportionately fast in a straight line and has to run super light to make it around a corner. Except we're talking about privateer Corvettes and Aston Martins that beat in house RML Saleens and Reiter Lamborghinis. There's also the MC12, waiver restrictions aside. |
|
|
20 Jun 2016, 02:47 (Ref:3653714) | #2293 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,434
|
If Corvette did not get bad BoP, why were they so slow? After all, they Won last year, with about the same car. it wasn't driver error, or poor pit stops, or any of that. I don't know--I guess most of us watch the race and also watch T&S, so i could see when cars did what speed.
The Vettes were simply not as fast. Considering that the whole point of BoP is that Everyone is exactly as fast .... <crickets> |
|
|
20 Jun 2016, 03:36 (Ref:3653724) | #2294 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,143
|
Wasn't it in 2014 also when corvettes were off the pace even slower than gte-Am aston martins at times? All the fan boys were upset and ****y,I remember fehan saying in an interview that it wasn't much bop but having issue figuring out the wec tires,I'm wondering if it was the same thing this year getting wec tires at laguna seca and struggling with them,in which the same race ford and ferrari were the top cars and corvette and porsche struggled.also on the wec stream at one point they were talking about how aston Martin switched to Dunlop because the Michelin tires were being developed for mid engined cars and not suited for front engined cars.......wonder how much truth there is behind that.
|
||
__________________
RACE CAR: noun: an automobile built or modified for racing. |
20 Jun 2016, 04:10 (Ref:3653728) | #2295 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 381
|
All I'm going to say is that filing a protest on the second place car is a dick move. #notthespiritoflemans
Gutted for Toyota, Happy for Porsche. GTE PRO needs to look at LMP1 to learn how to behave |
||
|
20 Jun 2016, 05:08 (Ref:3653736) | #2296 | |||
Racer
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 337
|
Quote:
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk |
|||
|
20 Jun 2016, 05:09 (Ref:3653737) | #2297 | ||
Racer
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 337
|
Complete in time I guess I should have said.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk |
||
|
20 Jun 2016, 06:46 (Ref:3653749) | #2298 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 128
|
Quote:
No5 stopped after crossing the finish line, then the Porsche passed. Then it started moving slow... Porsche finished with a checker flag and towards the end No5 did cross the line but the time No5 has taken on that lap was 11:53.815 The reason why it's classified is not because it didn't complete the last lap but due to No5 taken more than 6min to complete a lap. also, I hear some people saying that you need to go around another cool down lap as well? |
||
|
20 Jun 2016, 07:00 (Ref:3653753) | #2299 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,731
|
For the Toyota team in those circumstances 2nd place for car 5 would feel the same as a DNF.
|
||
|
20 Jun 2016, 07:25 (Ref:3653755) | #2300 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 840
|
Yeah, 2nd or nothing is the same, especially given the circumtances.
|
|
__________________
"Without racing there is no Honda". Soichiro Honda |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
[ELMS Race] 2016 ELMS Round 1 - 4 Hours of Silverstone Race Thread | J Jay | ACO Regulated Series | 108 | 28 Apr 2016 00:03 |
[WEC Race] 2016 FIA WEC Round 1: 6 Hours of Silverstone - Race Thread | J Jay | ACO Regulated Series | 586 | 21 Apr 2016 02:22 |
IMSA Race 2016 12 Hours of Sebring | joeb | North American Racing | 883 | 28 Mar 2016 16:43 |
12 hours Sebring 2016 | Bob Baldwin | North American Racing | 159 | 9 Mar 2016 21:22 |