Disappointed with ALMS.

[CorvetteC6R]

I'll take Dyson...

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by Chevyguy
About this "transition year", what is transiting? It's more of the same, or rather less of the same. Maybe the Dyson team has a positive outlook, but that didn't win them the race this past weekend. For all of the sunny outlooks, LMP is the same old show, only fewer players. R8 wins again this weekend, I'll open mouth and insert foot if I'm wrong.

I was at Mid-Ohio, Chevyguy, and I can tell you that the Dyson team was on equal terms with the Audi...at least on that race course....Chris Dyson put the car off course and by the time he got back on and squared it away, they were a lap down....that was the difference in the race....

Last Sunday was no cakewalk for Champion...

Now concerning your logic about the LMPs...

If that is the case, by next year maybe Grand Am should dump the DPs, because the Rileys are kicking everyone else's butts in that class, and as Team Ganassi and Wayne Taylor get those cars even more dialed in, it will become a Riley parade...

Is that what you're hoping for????

I hope that it would never happen...in either series...

If someone sets the bar higher, it gives a "true competitor" -- be it a race team, a car designer, an aero engineer, or an engine builder -- something to shoot for and to work toward....and by doing so, they will find and make improvements to make their equipment better...the whole level of the sport will rise...

But that's my opinion...

[dretceterini]

Sheer speed doen't make a car competitive. The MGs have had 3 years of development, and have only won a single event.

The ALMS has, and has always had great potential. Somehow, that potential never seems to get fulfilled.

I still say what sportscar racing needs is a true world's championship...

[Tim Northcutt]

A True world sportscar championship would be nice...

But don't hold your breath waiting for it to happen...because it would take serious $$$ and serious commitment from manufacturers, sponsors, teams and a transporter company to make it happen....

[Chevyguy]

Tim, I thought we weren't going to compare DP to LMP anymore. It's a totally didn't differant ballgame, and a Crawford or a Doran has a much better chance at beating a Riley than an MG over an R8. You can defend that Wallace gave the R8 a good run at Mid-Ohio, however, the R8 still dominated at the finish, at that's all that counts when the day is done. This thread is about disappoint in with the ALMS, so I'm not holding back. I'm VERY frustrated with the health of the series, did you remember that grid at Sebring '02? We were so close to a new "golden age" and then the ACO hit the teams with a bunch of confusing rule changes that seemed to chase a lot of teams off. Still, Audi found a way to make it work, thus the difference between the have and have nots increased just that much more. Then the ACO really put the screws to the ALMS by introducing their series which is no doubt outstanding to the Europeans. It's not that I want anything to happen, but something really needs to, no?

BTW, please don't give away the GA result, I'm waiting for Sunday so I can have some excitment watching the race. Tape delay sucks, but at least the GA race isn't on CBS. Yuck!

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by dretceterini
Sheer speed doen't make a car competitive. The MGs have had 3 years of development, and have only won a single event.

The ALMS has, and has always had great potential. Somehow, that potential never seems to get fulfilled.

I still say what sportscar racing needs is a true world's championship...

A World sportscar championship would only have one or two rounds in the USA.

Would that be ok with you?

[dretceterini]

I would have no problem with that. If Sebring and the PLM, plus LeMans were added to 2 or 3 rounds of the ELMS....then add a race in the orient, it would make for a good world championship...

[Kicking-back]

Agreed.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
A World sportscar championship would only have one or two rounds in the USA.

Would that be ok with you?

It would cause me to totally blow a gasket...

Wanna know why???

Because the LMES opener at Monza had 3,000 people fthere for the race...

There were more than that in attendance at Mid-Ohio on just one spectator mound (at the Esses) on Saturday morning at 8 a.m. to watch the Star Mazda and Speed World Challenge qualifying and an ALMS practice session....

ALMS qualifying wasn't until 5 hours later....and the crowd had tripled in size on that same mound by Q-time that day....

People "Attend" sportscar races here in North America....

I don't think Italian fans "Deserve" a world class sportscar event if only 3,000 people care enough to show up for a major race with a great field....

I like it the way it is....these things run in cycles....

the past few years, prototype racing was down in Europe while it flourished here.....it is a transition period....

But don't take races away from the fans who will put their money where their mouth is and will show up for 3-5 days to watch the cars race....

[dretceterini]

I'm not saying eliminate the other rounds of the ALMS and ELMS...just make certain rounds, plus LeMans, and an event in Asia constitue a world championship...

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by Chevyguy
Tim, I thought we weren't going to compare DP to LMP anymore. It's a totally didn't differant ballgame, and a Crawford or a Doran has a much better chance at beating a Riley than an MG over an R8. You can defend that Wallace gave the R8 a good run at Mid-Ohio, however, the R8 still dominated at the finish, at that's all that counts when the day is done. This thread is about disappoint in with the ALMS, so I'm not holding back. I'm VERY frustrated with the health of the series, did you remember that grid at Sebring '02? We were so close to a new "golden age" and then the ACO hit the teams with a bunch of confusing rule changes that seemed to chase a lot of teams off. Still, Audi found a way to make it work, thus the difference between the have and have nots increased just that much more. Then the ACO really put the screws to the ALMS by introducing their series which is no doubt outstanding to the Europeans. It's not that I want anything to happen, but something really needs to, no?

BTW, please don't give away the GA result, I'm waiting for Sunday so I can have some excitment watching the race. Tape delay sucks, but at least the GA race isn't on CBS. Yuck!

I won't give away the result for you....

and I am disappointed in the LMP counts in the ALMS, too....

But I used that example merely by applying the same logic that you were applying, Chevyguy...and I really don't buy it in either case....

The Dyson #20 had an off int he gravel trap or the result at the end of the race would have been just as close as the GTS class was....I was there...on that track, the Dyson Lola was not only on pace with the Audi, but in its mirrores most of the day, and at one point led the race....

Like I said above, The ALMS is in a transition phase right now, the same way that European prototypes were down over the last 2 years, but it will come back up to the numbers we are accustomed to....

For or overall action last weekend, I gotta tell you that I was not disappointed in what I watched....far from it....

But I think the LMP2 class needs a serious look for changes or adjustments, and that the LMP1 class needs more participants...4 cars in not enough...the class needs twice that number at a minimum....

[Liz]

We do get good crowds overe here compared to Europe, I wonder why that is? How is the gate price compared to what we pay? I noticed the F1 race in France had an announced gate of 50,000; we got nearly that many at Mosport for the ALMS race last August in the middle of the Giant Blackout.

Do you guys ever get tired of the Chicken Little act? WHY
do you all go round shouting "[YOUR SERIES HERE] is dying/dead!" about 10 times more often than you say "I really enjoyed [YOUR SERIES HERE] this weekend!" If you don't like it, don't go to it. Go to what you enjoy.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Liz
Do you guys ever get tired of the Chicken Little act? WHY
do you all go round shouting "[YOUR SERIES HERE] is dying/dead!" about 10 times more often than you say "I really enjoyed [YOUR SERIES HERE] this weekend!" If you don't like it, don't go to it. Go to what you enjoy.

My thoughts exactly.

[GT1]

Originally posted by Liz
We do get good crowds overe here compared to Europe, I wonder why that is? How is the gate price compared to what we pay? I noticed the F1 race in France had an announced gate of 50,000; we got nearly that many at Mosport for the ALMS race last August in the middle of the Giant Blackout.

Do you guys ever get tired of the Chicken Little act? WHY
do you all go round shouting "[YOUR SERIES HERE] is dying/dead!" about 10 times more often than you say "I really enjoyed [YOUR SERIES HERE] this weekend!" If you don't like it, don't go to it. Go to what you enjoy.

There are some people who love to complain and that is what they do best.

Having said that, there comes a time when you feel strongly about something and say it.

As I put it, there is a time to bite your tounge and then there is a time to really have a reason to complain.

I feel the current situation in the ALMS warrents that. I think the car count would add credit to that.

[Liz]

Isn't that kind of like having two hot days in a row and running about shouting "Global Warming! We're all gonna die!"

Two races is hardly evidence to base the premise that the ALMS is either dying or dead. Having attended both races I don't think the evidence warrants that decision. (And having camped out in 50 degree weather in June at Mid Ohio, I doubt Global Warming too.)

[GT1]

If there a flood coming does one prepare and try to do something to avoid it or do you say "I love to play in the water".

ALMS has problems. I know the storng presence of ALMS fans on here and I know that I am very suspectible to critisism. I for one hope I am wrong and the ALMS picks up steem. I just don't see it.

[Fab]

Originally posted by Liz
We do get good crowds overe here compared to Europe, I wonder why that is? How is the gate price compared to what we pay? I noticed the F1 race in France had an announced gate of 50,000; we got nearly that many at Mosport for the ALMS race last August in the middle of the Giant Blackout.

Confirmed : not more than 60 000 people at the F1 GP this week-end at Magny Cours... three times more -at least- at LM... and not talking about the price of the ticket.

I cannot speak for ALMS, but the show we had in LMES on the Nordschleife (and I only got it on telly) was outstanding : that the second time I see the purple Audis passing a car simultaneously by each side ! A Barron Connor Ferrari last time, the Creation Zytech this one...

BTW : those Audi drivers are really crazy - garanteed heart attack for Dr Ulrich !

sorry for those OT comments

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Fab
Confirmed : not more than 60 000 people at the F1 GP this week-end at Magny Cours... three times more -at least- at LM... and not talking about the price of the ticket.

It isn't worth comparing on any level. Two different things. A one off event near a major town against part of a championship at a track in the middle of nowhere.

Additionally does LM have an inferiority complex? Of course not, so I don't understand the constant comparisons. Silverstone (located in a decent place) is sold out. So? Exactly it is immaterial.

We are here enjoying sportscars, what difference does the attendence at a GP make? None, unless you have an inferiority complex.

Whatever Lime Rock is on in ten minutes (live, hurrah!) and I've just finished reading the practice, qually and warm-up threads on DSC. Can't wait.

[arutau]

I attended the Lime Rock ALMS race this afternoon (July 5), and came away very impressed. I'm an admitted ALMS newbie -- this is actually the first race I've ever been to, and I brought the wife and kids with me as well.

That said, I was disappointed to see that the Prodrive Ferrari team wasn't in the race. Was this by choice, or was there some other reason they didn't show?

I'm partial to the Corvette team, but the intense rivalry between the yellow Pratt & Miller Corvettes and the red Prodrive Ferraris is one of the reasons I got interested in ALMS to begin with.

We also learned at the race today that Dale Earnhart Jr. will be racing a 3rd factory Corvette at the ALMS Sonoma Grand Prix in California on July 16-18.

I can only imagine what Corvette/Prodrive Ferrari matchup at that event would have been like -- NASCAR hero Earnhart Jr. driving a yellow Corvette, with WRC legend Colin McCrae driving a red Ferrari -- that would surely have drawn a diverse group of new spectators to ALMS!

Many of my friends are also getting interested in ALMS, but I hope the disappearance of the Ferrari Prodrive team isn't a bad omen....

[billnchristy]

I have returned from Lime Rock a very happy camper (literally)

The race was awesome, i hope the broadcast showed as well as the real thing (havent watched yet). The field may be weak but the racing is stronger than it has ever been!!!

The crowd at Lime Rock was phenomenal...for monday, the weekend overall was pretty weak.

Everyone in the campgrounds sunday night was lit! Had a blast, met a lot of cool people!

Ill be back next year!

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by billnchristy
I have returned from Lime Rock a very happy camper (literally)

The race was awesome, i hope the broadcast showed as well as the real thing (havent watched yet). The field may be weak but the racing is stronger than it has ever been!!!

The crowd at Lime Rock was phenomenal...for monday, the weekend overall was pretty weak.

Everyone in the campgrounds sunday night was lit! Had a blast, met a lot of cool people!

Ill be back next year!

Since you are familiar with Lime Rock, about how many people would you guestimate were there on Monday, billnchristy???

The crowd looked pretty decent, but the hill didn't look nearly as packed as Mid-Ohio was...

That's why I ask...

Because my Mid-Ohio guess may have been very low for that venue, and I'm trying to do a density comparison...

I enjoyed the races on SpeedChannel....glad you had a great time over the weekend...

[Fogelhund]

1. Prodrive/Frederic Dor... don't have the funding sponsorship to run their Ferrari's this year. They haven't run since Sebring, and it is seeming to be less likely that we will see them again, except perhaps PLM?

2. Yes, Dale Jr. at Sonoma is interesting news, that was announced several months ago.

3. The attendance at LRP seemed to be adequate, though if the date continues, and entries grow, then I think you'll see attendance rise.

4. Speed TV broadcast was miles better then CBS.

[Purist]

The Prodrive group has been working in conjunction with the Audi Sport UK group, so they've had their hands full already. In addition, they are the ones putting together the factory-backed, I believe, Aston Martin DB9s, which will be appearing on the track at PLM and/or Laguna Seca, or at Sebring next March.

To an clarify someone who posted earlier, the LMES race at the Nurburgring was run on the new Grand Prix course, not the Nordschleife (north loop of the original Nurburgring).

[jhansen]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but Prodrive is not affiliated with Audi Sport UK Team Veloqx. You may be thinking about the Veloqx connection with Prodrive in the past. But Veloqx is separate from Prodrive. And Prodrive was not at Sebring, but Barron Connor had their 575's there. I recall hearing that Prodrive and Rafanelli were attempting to do a deal this year, but Rafenelli couldn't put the funding together. The problem isn't with Prodrive finding sponsorship money, it's the team that would run their cars. Or at least that is how I understand it.

[Cadete]

I think you are right, jhansen.