The Official Long Beach Discussion Thread - Page 4

SPRacer · 11 Apr 2005, 02:13 (Ref:1275182)

Definitely a good race. Bourdais earned it, he was in the zone.

What about Bruno? He takes the lead from PT early in the race, but when PT came to take it back later on, he seemed to just give it up. Did he just forget who was behind him on that restart? Maybe he didn't want to force the issue, which is smart, but...

mountainstar · 11 Apr 2005, 05:41 (Ref:1275219)

Quite impressed with Glock, Ranger and Wilson.

Jensen a disappointment, but they can now take the mantle of the minardi of champcar from coyne. A lot of people have been critical of this team, but they are only just starting and clearly don't have a clue yet, so let's give it some time.

marcus · 11 Apr 2005, 08:13 (Ref:1275268)

I have updated this thread with the Championship standings

macdaddy · 11 Apr 2005, 12:13 (Ref:1275431)

I was surprised that da Matta was wearing the "Lucas Oil Helmet-Cam". I thought that Roshfrans was the series' official lubricant?

This race was made interesting by the lack of pit windows, and the mandated tire selections. I like these rules (or lack thereof).

The drivers were complaining that the red option-tires began to lose grip late in the stint, and that the track was becoming slippery. I wonder if this would have had anything to do with the massive amounts of rubber that the Drifters laid down on the surface?

Enjoyable race, too bad the TV didn't catch much of it.

macdaddy · 11 Apr 2005, 13:24 (Ref:1275478)

Why does Bourdais have 34 points?

31 - Victory
+1 - Fast Lap
+1 - Leading a Lap

He didn't win either pole, and they no longer get a bonus point for "Most Laps Led", so where did the other point come from?

macdaddy · 11 Apr 2005, 13:40 (Ref:1275492)

...Nevermind.

Bourdais was tied with several other drivers for "Most Positions Gained".

Kicking-back · 11 Apr 2005, 13:47 (Ref:1275502)

A rather dull race, that.

Well done to Sebastien and Justin.

jjspierx · 11 Apr 2005, 16:38 (Ref:1275669)

Apparently I'm alone in thinking that Ranger's incidence with Phillipe wasn't Ranger's fault? It was more a racing incident to me. Ranger was a bit optimistic, but he was inside at the corner and he was all the way up on the curve and Nelson turned into him. I'd place about 50/50 blame on them, certainly not how Daly announced things.

Speaking of DD, I can't stand the guys commentary. He talks just to talk sometimes. Its like he'll start a sentence and realize he doesn't know where he's going with it, and so he'll just say something stupid to finish it off, that sounds half-way intelligent unless you really think about it. For instance, with 6 laps to go, on the restart, Junqueira passes Domingez, and Daly says "Wow, a Tracy type of move, you don't often see Junquiera make a move like that in the opening laps." And I think to myself, oh, 6 laps left is the opening laps?

Snrub · 11 Apr 2005, 16:58 (Ref:1275678)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

A rather dull race, that.

Why do you say that? IMO as far as races go at LB, it was good. We had a number of competitive passes, including three for the lead. They were all legitimate and not due to wacky fuel stratagies, etc.

I'm not sure what the deal was with the Lucus oil cam, but it was nice to see an additional sponsor. I guess there's no reason that Roshfrans can't be the official series lubricant, while Lucus pays the broadcast to be the sponsor of the helmet cam (?).

Interesting thought regarding the laid down rubber compared to driver complaints of it being slippery. Normally tracks get faster, not slower. I recall in the past there being a situation where some stock cars or something had run before a CC race and drivers complaining of it being slippery. For some reason the CC rubber was incompatable with the stock car rubber, which conceptually is really odd. That might explain why PT was unable to go faster with the reds on his final stint. I think Bourdais' setup may have been easier on the tires and/or made better use of the tires. Not only was Bourdais tire wear less than everyone elses, but he had a mark improvement with the red tires, whereas PT didn't and presumable others behind him as well, because they weren't gaining on him.

sr230772 · 11 Apr 2005, 17:17 (Ref:1275702)

what a race thats the best race at long beach for a long time and not to soon either that may just save champ cars at long beach as only three cars dnf unlike a certin other event where they crashed into each other all over the place champ cars really showed them how to turn right.he he

jjspierx · 11 Apr 2005, 17:55 (Ref:1275717)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snrub

That might explain why PT was unable to go faster with the reds on his final stint. I think Bourdais' setup may have been easier on the tires and/or made better use of the tires. Not only was Bourdais tire wear less than everyone elses, but he had a mark improvement with the red tires, whereas PT didn't and presumable others behind him as well, because they weren't gaining on him.

Whether or not Bourdais has a setup better on tires or not, in general he will stil get better tire way than most others with identical setups. I watched most of the race through his in-car camera. He is sooo much more smooth than the other drivers out their. He can drive faster and still conserve the tires cause of his driving style.

Snrub · 11 Apr 2005, 21:15 (Ref:1275869)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjspierx

Whether or not Bourdais has a setup better on tires or not, in general he will stil get better tire way than most others with identical setups. I watched most of the race through his in-car camera. He is sooo much more smooth than the other drivers out their. He can drive faster and still conserve the tires cause of his driving style.

Good point, I definately agree with what you've said regarding how he's better able to conserve tires than others. It was also pretty impressive how he was able to conserve fuel during the first stint, yet only lose 4 seconds to PT. Compare that to even the gap he pulled on the last stint on blacks while PT was on reds. The driver genuinely won the race.

macdaddy · 11 Apr 2005, 21:23 (Ref:1275876)

He sure did. Can't ever take that away from him. He didn't win by virtue of strategy, officiating or even luck. He won by driving. In fact, the late yellows actually hurt him, otherwise he'd have finished miles ahead of the field.

Omega99 · 12 Apr 2005, 01:34 (Ref:1275957)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjspierx

Apparently I'm alone in thinking that Ranger's incidence with Phillipe wasn't Ranger's fault? It was more a racing incident to me. Ranger was a bit optimistic, but he was inside at the corner and he was all the way up on the curve and Nelson turned into him. I'd place about 50/50 blame on them, certainly not how Daly announced things.

You're not alone. But I think Ranger is slightly more to blame, maybe 60/40. It was an agressive move, which is a good thing IMO. He showed that he's going to be a guy to watch.

mountainstar · 12 Apr 2005, 03:06 (Ref:1275980)

http://www.presstelegram.com/Stories...809976,00.html

Sivat · 12 Apr 2005, 07:52 (Ref:1276055)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snrub

Interesting thought regarding the laid down rubber compared to driver complaints of it being slippery. Normally tracks get faster, not slower.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snrub

That might explain why PT was unable to go faster with the reds on his final stint. I think Bourdais' setup may have been easier on the tires and/or made better use of the tires. Not only was Bourdais tire wear less than everyone elses, but he had a mark improvement with the red tires, whereas PT didn't and presumable others behind him as well, because they weren't gaining on him.

The lap times did get faster as the race went on. Most of the drivers set their fastest times between laps 66-70. From what I could tell, the drifters didn't really make a large difference in the amount of rubber on the track (except for the main straight). I was sitting at turn 10, and there wasn't a noticible increase in rubber between the Toyota Atlantic race and the champ cars (the drift cars ran in between).

As far as the difference between PT and Bourdais on the reds, Bourdais just drove better. Everyone was expecting Tracy to catch and pass Bourdais once he was on the reds and Bourdais was back to blacks. Bourdais just kept pulling away. This may be the end of LB being called Tracy's race. Of course, if next year ends up being IRL at long beach, it won't matter.

Snrub · 12 Apr 2005, 15:24 (Ref:1276426)

I guess that blows the rubber on the track theory out of the water.

I won't disagree that Bourdais drove better, but PT still should have been faster on the reds than on the blacks.

Snrub · 12 Apr 2005, 15:38 (Ref:1276440)

After following Mountainstar's link, it looks like the Press-Telegram said some other good things which may help to aleviate some of the pressure to switch to the IRL:

Races looks like a Champ
http://www.presstelegram.com/Stories...809778,00.html
"Newman/Haas stuck with Champ Car for all of the right reasons. Great names like Bobby Rahal, Chip Ganassi, Marlboro/Penske and Michael Andretti followed the sponsorship money and lure of the Indy 500 to the IRL even though they knew the product wasn't as good. ....Newman and Haas love racing... If the best racing was located in Iraq, then Newman/Haas would have a garage outside Mosul."

Drivers get a passing grade
http://www.presstelegram.com/Stories...809931,00.html
"It's called racing. But for some reason, the Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach has been anything but. It's been more like follow the leader. At least until Sunday afternoon."

jjspierx · 12 Apr 2005, 16:32 (Ref:1276476)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snrub

I guess that blows the rubber on the track theory out of the water.

I won't disagree that Bourdais drove better, but PT still should have been faster on the reds than on the blacks.

Not necessarily. In theory, the red's should be faster as they are softer, but in reality its not always the case. Depending on the car setup and the drivers style they might just not work as well. The announcers were saying the Bruno preferred and was faster on the blacks then the reds while his teammate was faster on the reds.

marcus · 13 Apr 2005, 08:04 (Ref:1276896)

Whoops , thanks to macdaddy for pointing out that Bourdais actually gained 3 spots on his qualifying position.

I have fixed the results table

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