Qualifying ideas??

[Matt]

Originally Posted by RotorFan

As far as finishing positions go, in WTCC they reverse the top 8 cars for the second race and this works very well. The first race produces two races - one for the lead, and one for P8. Its not as extreme/contrived as reversing the full grid but produces good racing as the winner of race 1 has a good chance of coming through to win the second race too.

Dunno how it would work with three races though.

The BTCC does that better, they randomly draw a number after Race 2, between 6 and 10. that number represents how many cars will be reversed. It prevents sandbagging, since in WTCC, it's guaranteed that 8th place will get Pole, so some people might drop back to 8th on purpose, just to get pole for Race 2. With the BTCC format, you can't sandbag, because you don't know if you'll be reversed or not!

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by adz_34

Hi all, watching yesterdays race it really dawned on me just how unfair the current system is regarding qualifying and sprint races. Why do we penalise a driver for the complete round just because the car fails in race one? The paying public want to see the best cars and drivers compete up the top of the order all weekend. Now, if your a Will Davison fan he has to fight his way back through the field to try to make something of his weekend when he maybe could have matched Whincup for the overall round win.

Which got me thinking......Why not have 2 qualifying sessions (if there are 2 races, 3 sessions for 3 races) that determine grid positions, that way if you do have a problem in race 1 you can at least make something of your weekend in race 2. Maybe with this sort of system you could perhaps even run a soft tyre/hard tyre option for one of the races as well.

Thoughts??

Of all the things wrong with V8 Supercar, qualifying is the least wrong. The guys who actually are capable of winning championships overcome such penalties and salvage points, the pretenders do not.

And the system actually is better than it was in decades past. With three races you can salvage some points at all where as up to 1992 if you had a DNF, the weekend was written off. Zero points.

A few years ago V8 Supercar trialled a full-field shootout, it overwhelmingly got the thumbs down from folks, basically it was boring.

Triplling the length of time qualifying takes just to mollify the mid-field competitors, is not going to be well received by spectators or TV alike. More racing, less commercials.

Please.

[adz_34]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Of all the things wrong with V8 Supercar, qualifying is the least wrong. The guys who actually are capable of winning championships overcome such penalties and salvage points, the pretenders do not.

And the system actually is better than it was in decades past. With three races you can salvage some points at all where as up to 1992 if you had a DNF, the weekend was written off. Zero points.

A few years ago V8 Supercar trialled a full-field shootout, it overwhelmingly got the thumbs down from folks, basically it was boring.

Triplling the length of time qualifying takes just to mollify the mid-field competitors, is not going to be well received by spectators or TV alike. More racing, less commercials.

Please.

Sorry, perhaps I didnt explain it in great enough detail for those that are a wee bit simpler than normal folk.

I agree there is nothing wrong as such with qualifying, but does that mean we should not investigate other ideas for the future?

I made no mention of adding 3 times the length of qualifying. But at Sandown there was 3 sessions prior to qualifying which is really just running around getting cars sorted. Why not have 3 sessions total. Each one counts as a qualifying session for each of the 3 races. There is the potential there for a team to come out of the box with a great setup and steal a good grid position and race result that they may not otherwise get by in the one qualifying session.

I am not saying do this for every round either, before the morons on here start thinking I am suggesting that we stop the 1000km race at Bathurst every hour and shake the order up in a hat, but why not the 3 race sprint rounds? We want to be entertained and as you suggest Falcadore "The guys who actually are capable of winning championships overcome such penalties and salvage points, the pretenders do not" surely these guys "capable of winning the championship" would be able to overcome the hurdle of a qualifying session for each of the 3 races.

If this can put an end to the winner of race 1 running away with races 2 and 3 (like Hamilton) then I think that is a good thing as far as entertainment is concerned. I suggest you look at the two practice sessions prior to qualifying and qualifying itself on the V8 website and maybe just imagine how exciting the races could have been in Hamilton without Garth running away with all 3 races. Garth may still have won all 3 races but if my system was in place it would have been a whole lot harder from 11th grid slot in race 1, 2nd in race 2 and 2nd in race 3.

Just my thoughts. Slang all you want people, especially since I have read all your great ideas on how to improve the quality of our motorsport entertainment in the thread so far.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by adz_34

Sorry, perhaps I didnt explain it in great enough detail for those that are a wee bit simpler than normal folk.

I agree there is nothing wrong as such with qualifying, but does that mean we should not investigate other ideas for the future?

I made no mention of adding 3 times the length of qualifying. But at Sandown there was 3 sessions prior to qualifying which is really just running around getting cars sorted. Why not have 3 sessions total. Each one counts as a qualifying session for each of the 3 races. There is the potential there for a team to come out of the box with a great setup and steal a good grid position and race result that they may not otherwise get by in the one qualifying session.

I am not saying do this for every round either, before the morons on here start thinking I am suggesting that we stop the 1000km race at Bathurst every hour and shake the order up in a hat, but why not the 3 race sprint rounds? We want to be entertained and as you suggest Falcadore "The guys who actually are capable of winning championships overcome such penalties and salvage points, the pretenders do not" surely these guys "capable of winning the championship" would be able to overcome the hurdle of a qualifying session for each of the 3 races.

If this can put an end to the winner of race 1 running away with races 2 and 3 (like Hamilton) then I think that is a good thing as far as entertainment is concerned. I suggest you look at the two practice sessions prior to qualifying and qualifying itself on the V8 website and maybe just imagine how exciting the races could have been in Hamilton without Garth running away with all 3 races. Garth may still have won all 3 races but if my system was in place it would have been a whole lot harder from 11th grid slot in race 1, 2nd in race 2 and 2nd in race 3.

Just my thoughts. Slang all you want people, especially since I have read all your great ideas on how to improve the quality of our motorsport entertainment in the thread so far.

So basically a practice session has no value to you and you would prefer the high pressure of qualifying be applied each time the cars venture out on the circuit. I think you will find in an era when out of race weekend testing is all but banned, having the opportunity to test and sort cars prior to qualifying deleted will find no favour with the teams.

You can be as defensive as you like, it is just not a practical idea.

[MPA]

V8SC racing, like many categories is a fight to get to the front and stay there. The fight starts early during practise when they set the car up and get as much data as they can as well as staying off the fence. Progressing through to qualifying and into Race 1 the quick guys deserve to be up the front. And if they’re unlucky enough to have a failure or accident early in the weekend they are given a second chance from the rear of grid. Many quick drivers do grab a bag of points after a disastrous start to the weekend. Fast guys carving up backmarkers is a feature of the sport and I rather like it.

Consider this, how many drivers would be sandbagging in race 1 if they knew they already had pole in race 2 and 3?

What if we got to the last round with 10 points between 1st and 2nd in the championship and we knew the Series Leader was on pole for all three races and the fella coming second had a bad Saturday and could only qualify 15th for all three races?

[MPA]

Originally Posted by adz_34

Before the morons on here start thinking I am suggesting that we stop the 1000km race at Bathurst every hour and shake the order up in a hat.

But we do that already. It's called a Safety Car intervention.


Its also a great chance for those that have had problems to catch up.

[RotorFan]

Originally Posted by Matt

The BTCC does that better, they randomly draw a number after Race 2, between 6 and 10. that number represents how many cars will be reversed. It prevents sandbagging, since in WTCC, it's guaranteed that 8th place will get Pole, so some people might drop back to 8th on purpose, just to get pole for Race 2. With the BTCC format, you can't sandbag, because you don't know if you'll be reversed or not!

No way, the BTCC reverse grid is terrible! The look on the drivers faces as they pull a number out of a bucket says it all. Getting a grid girl to hold the bucket doesn't make it any better.

There is no sandbagging in WTCC in my opinion. The points are precious enough that no driver will drop back to 8th for a better starting position. Besides, 7th becomes the best position anyway because you get an extra point and you're on the front row.

[nomad_n]

Well you could try something that the kiwi's did a couple of years ago.... which was starting all the cars at different flag points around the track i.e. if you won race 2 you would start just over the finish line. This would be organized by the timing crew to work out where the cars would start, not only does this make the racing alot more interesting as you would see the faster cars trying thier hardest to make it to the front..... So it promotes great racing