Security for teams in paddock

[kartingdad]

Originally Posted by diz

And quite often midweek as well. But they are only having a look at the race cars. I very much doubt that their reason for visiting has anything whatsoever to do with policing.

NO! Shirley Nott.

[youngoldy]

Originally Posted by diz

And quite often midweek as well. But they are only having a look at the race cars. I very much doubt that their reason for visiting has anything whatsoever to do with policing.

And usually to practice their mobile speed gun abilities into Lodge. Rather than doing something crime preventing.

But on the other hand, if their presence is seen by potential thieves, they should/could bottle it.

[JohnD]

Originally Posted by TFHarv

I heard plenty of incidents over the scanner at BTCC this year including the shop being broken into. Is that not a crime that would require a police presence. Also disturbing the peace, plenty of drunks getting a bit too rowdy at a family event leads to families not returning. Another reason for police presence.

That's a concern. BTCC is the low end of motorsport, and for some reason has been given carte blanche by the MSA to administer its own discipline. BTCC wants that because it emphasises the "Thrills and Spills" side and, I'm sorry, advertises for the 'wrong sort' of spectator. This attitude has passed onto the competitors, so that 'rubbing' and 'tagging' are all seen as fair, and the attitude has infected club racing too. The MSA should recognise this, clean up the BTCC act and so deter the mob who only go for blood.

I'll get m'coat.

John

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JohnD

That's a concern. BTCC is the low end of motorsport, and for some reason has been given carte blanche by the MSA to administer its own discipline. BTCC wants that because it emphasises the "Thrills and Spills" side and, I'm sorry, advertises for the 'wrong sort' of spectator.

John

'wrong sort'? a PAYING spectator is better then no spectators. "Wrong Sort" or not, these ppl part with their money to watch the race, or party as it may be. No spectators, no racing.

The "Proper Sort' doesn't leave the house. or the 'proper Sort" that actully race are gentlmen racers, arnt they? and who wants to watch let alone pay to watch gentleman / club racers go touring around a track?

Why do you think NASCAR is so popular? the bump and crashes, draw spectators like flys to poop. It happens.

Are these ppl the 'wrong sort' ? Heck yah, and very very indpendent and they PAY TO WATCH RACES.

I may or we may not be a big fan of NASCAR, but the money that goes into nascar, does allow some trickle down or money in to sports car racing.

[Al Weyman]

Yes but NASCAR cars are built to take the smacks, I know I have one in my garage, and its a simple job to ready them for the next race (usually!), just because they see panels flying off it makes no difference that they are easy replacing fibreglass ones or had to replace and source steel rear quart panel or front wing. Also NASCAR are stock cars which have a totally different meaning overhere where they are heavily armoured single seaters on a 1/4 mile oval who are encouraged to make contact. BTCC poses as a proper race series where as in reality it is more akin to European stock cars. I have no problem with that but please make the distinction and call them BTCC Contact Stock Cars or something. And as for gentleman drivers in historics and no collisions, you should have been at the last two meetings I have raced at, 2 cars totatalled at Mallory and two others damaged in the same incident, next race several cars badly damaged, Oulton last week stoppage after stoppage for damaged cars including a totalled M3 and two badly damaged Mk 1 Escorts plus many others pulled in on the truck!

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

'wrong sort'? a PAYING spectator is better then no spectators. "Wrong Sort" or not, these ppl part with their money to watch the race, or party as it may be. No spectators, no racing.







.

There's the answer. Don't let any spectators into clubbie meetings.
Seeing that they are very sparse (except Castle Coombe) they don't make any difference to the race entry fees anyway !

[AU N EGL]

Al
Sorry about that. Your right many of those ( us ) Gentleman drivers think we are Michael Schumaker and bang........................




............................... ack

[itsonlyme]

Can i ask a question James? When you are given a ticket by your race team for Oulton meetings, are you given a car paddock pass too or do you cut through the (open unmanned) gate by the scrut bay like i do because you have no ticket to show at the official manned gate situated by the extortionate cafe? I have been involved with racing for over 30 years and can count on my hand the amount of car paddock passes i have actually had!

Regarding wearing arm bands or passes worn around your neck, i have worked for a formula vauxhall lotus team (many years ago) on the TOCA support programme and was pulling a trolley from the truck to the pit lane (because no paddock bikes were allowed) loaded with a toolbox, a set of wets and a set of slicks, spare nose cone, rear wing plus a quick lift and maybe a few other essential items up a slight hill and i had a nice momentum going when a pit lane marshal made me stop so he could check my pass. Could you imagine how annoyed i was to be stopped whilst pulling a heavy fully laden trolley up a hill? Did he think i was going to go through all the trouble of pulling the trolley as an excuse just to get into the pits to watch? Yes he was doing his job as instructed but could you put up with all the checks of passes etc? even so (which has been mentioned in nearly every other post) if you leave it lying around or unlocked there is always a chance it will sprout legs and go walkies!
I have to admit up until recently (middle of last season) i used to leave my car keys in my ignition in my road car in the paddock with the window open as ventilation with sat nav stuck on windscreen too and yes i have been lucky as it was never stolen, i have even left my mobile phone and cash in a drawer in the unlocked toolbox, again i have been lucky.
A scumbag walking around the paddock must think it is their birthday when they see everything left unattended in or around an awning or trailer, and with all the security measures we have in place at home etc they are obviously finding more easier targets and we as race teams are basically putting a sign up inviting them to take our stuff at race meetings or test days, because we are all blinkered to the idea of scumbags being on the prowl. Someone mentioned in this thread about policing the paddock, but all the thief has to do is observe how long it takes the policaman/woman or security guard to do a lap of the paddock and time their '5 minutes work' accordingly.
It is all well and good putting the expensive items inside the truck behind a closed not locked door, but how long does it take to open an unlocked door? Maybe it would take 10 seconds longer to break through the locked door but again it is still more of a deterent.
We are all now aware that nothing is safe anymore so we are just going to have to break our old habits regarding security at the circuits and try to do the best we can to cut down theft (we are never going to illiminate it) by being more security conscious.
Slagging areas of the country off arent helping and is just gettin away from the serious topic of this thread!
I would also suggest expensive electrical items (ipods etc) that are not required whilst you are working are left at home because it is one more thing to remember to lock away or forget to lock away and get stolen.

[Al Weyman]

Lets get this out the way once and for all, the tounge in cheek Liverpool comment by me and others was just that, tounge in cheek in the same way as the three scousers sketch on Harry Enfields show was meant to be. My daughters Mother in law is a scouser and we have a bit of fun her taking the mick out of my cockney accent me winding her up about scouser stereo types but its all in jest as it was meant to be here and if it has really offended someone then accept my humblest appologises any Liverpuddlians I have ever met have been sound people anyhow chances are it is people travelling to the area perpertating crimes.

The bottom line is i still have paddock passes on the dashboard of my tow vehicle, I was never asked for them at anytime and I think this is behind the problem and does'nt happen anywhere else I know of.

[Rod Birley]

At Lydden on Saturday evening the circuit director came and did a spot check on who had tickets. Any one without tickets was either asked to leave or had to buy one. You cannot leave tickets at the entrance or meet any one there, and this seemed to have the desired effect on keeping a check on who was getting in. Obviously they read what's on here.

[JohnD]

Au,
As Gordon says, no one except friends and family come to watch club racing anyway. But I do want tickets to be available. If asked about starting racing, I always advise people to go/come along and watch, talk to people in the paddock, and see if they like the scene before they spend any serious money. I don't have enough complimentaries to give out to such casuals, but if they can't afford a ticket.......

Nascar is big business in the USA, when there is only one comparable event in the UK, the F1 Grand Prix. BTCC used to be nearly as popular, it was just as much on TV. There, car-to car contact became not an occasional, event to be avoided as much as possible, but a regular tactic. It is part of the racing, even including 'tagging' to knock opponents off by hitting them slightly when alredady unbalanced in a corner. Do you consider that fair practice in Nascar?
That, 'rubbing' or side-to-side pushing contests for corner entry and a general lack of discipline would have lead to judicial action by the MSA, if they had not surrended disciplinary authority to the BTCC orgainisation. There are specific paragraphs in the MSA Yearbook that governs UK motorsport to the effct that the BTCC is a law untio itself. The thugs police the thugs!
And these indisciplines have spread by a sort of Greshams Law into club racing. Contact is far more common these days than of yore, and I know of several series that now feel it appropraite to state in their regs that such behaviour is unacceptable, when previously it was just assumed that it would not happen except unavoidably and occasionally. The 'right' people behave rightly and where yobs get in, yobs rule, unless they can be influenced by good governance.

Nascar is clearly a completely different fish in a different sea. The hoopla, enthusiam and celebration is thoughly American, and fits in well. BTCC does not in the UK motorsport. I believe that the MSA should cut the BTCC off and let it go to Hell in its own way, making it clear that good behaviour is not an option, but a necessity in the evnents that it controls. Other motorsports, grasstrack, banger racing get along without MSA overlordship, so the BTCC should do so too. And keep it's infection of indiscipline and dangerous driving isolated.

JOhn

[Al Weyman]

Sounds like you are as keen on BTCC as I am John (NOT!)

[AU N EGL]

John

No offense you need to travel a bit more.

We have lots of spectators at our NASA semi pro races. Big parties of spectators too. No where near the level of the Big leagues but still more then just friends and family.

Some of our races even have rock concerts on Saturday night between the two days. Those bring in HUGE triple digit crowds. Well Low triple digits, but still 1500 -2000 ppl come to watch the races and stay for the rock or county rock concert. Many even stay for the Sunday races too.

and those ppl are definitively the WRONG sort. Or at least the WRONG sort on this side of the Pond are very very independent ppl. Oh wait those are NASCAR FANS, ALMS fans, Indy car or any sports car or car racing fan.

So on this side of the pond the WRONG sort is the PAYING sort.

and I am proud to say I AM THAT WRONG SORT TOO. But heck you guys knew that already.

[Al Weyman]

Au I think you might be mssing the johns point, BTCC racing has become a thrills for TV show where banging and smashing is encouraged or so it seems as it definitely goes unpunished. A lot of the people who go to watch that are the same people who would enjoy a Demolition Derby or Banger racing as we call it over here and good luck to them I have no problems with that but they are not the purist motorsport fan and I doubt they would enjoy a NASCAR race or Cart, Sportcars in fact anything else on offer that does not envolve smash and bash.

Unfortunately this form of 'motorsport' (BTCC) has had an effect on the way some drivers think its OK to behave in a club event and I have had several personal experiences of this and I think its a sad development and that the governing bodies ought to do something about asap which is why I think this form of racing should be reclassified as a semi-contact sport to remove the confusion, I can't even be bothered to watch it on TV now and in the past I have paid money and travelled to watch it, not any more.

BTW I started this sport on small oval circuits in a non-contact oval sport but we were billed alongside the banger Bashers and I have to say thats who the crowd came to see not us!

[AU N EGL]

encouraged? that is BS.

Sorry John must be the English to American translation


any intentinal body to body contact here and your arz is 13/13ed

i e 13 month suppension then 13 month probation

[JohnD]

AU,
Indeed, we are seperated by the same language.
Please excuse my rant against BTCC, not strictly relevant.
But thoroghly deserved, I think.
See this YouTube video,both 35 and 50 seconds in, first lpa, and they are already "bumping" each other: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VZx3pa...eature=related

John

[R59]

I think we're losing the focus of this thread here.

We all pay large entry fees for which we expect to have a safe and secure environment to enjoy our sport. If that means that the circuit or the club has to provide the necessary security, then so be it - the onus should be on them. If it means extra checks on tickets/passes while we roam around, then that's what we have to put up with.

If something goes missing, then the place should go into "lockdown" with all cars leaving the circuit searched. We're often not just talking small value items going missing - but items worth hundreds or thousands.

Regarding the body contact issue - well, the 13/13 sounds more like it! I know people who were asked to take the full John Lyon High Performance Driving "Racecraft" course before being let back into the championship - and that doesn't come cheap!

If only they allowed dogs into the circuits (other than Lydden), I'd have a couple of well trained Rottweiler x Labrador's. They could rip the theives arms off, and bring back the stolen items.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by R59

We all pay large entry fees for which we expect to have a safe and secure environment to enjoy our sport. If that means that the circuit or the club has to provide the necessary security, then so be it - the onus should be on them.

Alternatively, as has been mentioned numerous times already in this thread, the onus is on you to take some basic common sense precautions like looking away your valuables.

Originally Posted by R59

If something goes missing, then the place should go into "lockdown" with all cars leaving the circuit searched. We're often not just talking small value items going missing - but items worth hundreds or thousands.

Sorry Rob, but your jack-booted securitati and rabid attack dogs have no right to search me or my car. The police might have but only if they have probable cause, and searching hundreds of people on the off chance that one of them might have your laptop is anything but probable cause.

Motorsport already has enough problems with failing spectators numbers. Do you think anyone will come to watch if they know they could face this sort action. Never mind the spectators, I'm sure your sponsors and guest will feel equally happy about it.

[itsonlyme]

Here is a quote from a post Diz put on the 23rd june...............

What makes it worse was that there were descriptions of the miscreants. The usual hoodies etc., but one of them had half an arm missing from just below the elbow. It wouldn’t have been hard for the boys and girls in blue – at least those of them not on Refs, or hounding motorists for doing 36 in a 30 – to attend Oulton Park and try to identify a one armed $hit hole and arrest him. After all, there aren’t that many exits. They could have simply parked up there and waved good bye to everybody leaving. When one of the wavers back was seen to be deficient in the digit department, bingo, they’ve got him.


I don't think the dogs are going to work unless they bite both arms off lol

[Al Weyman]

One arm, was'nt our one armed racer Neil Bray was it? :-) Only joking honest Neil as he had Snap-On gear nicked at Combe.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JohnD

AU,
Indeed, we are seperated by the same language.
Please excuse my rant against BTCC, not strictly relevant.
But thoroghly deserved, I think.
See this YouTube video,both 35 and 50 seconds in, first lpa, and they are already "bumping" each other: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VZx3pa...eature=related

John

Big Money there by the Haulers parked behind the garages. But those moves that caused the crashes were clearly rookie driving. Those drivers IMO should have been black flagged to come into the pits and serve a stop-n-go penalty. Plus a 10 grid reduction in starting the next race, no matter how well they qualify. Plus team managers should be fined.

YES once in a while there is unavoidable contact, which is reviewed by the marshals for judgment.

OK Back to secureity.

Sounds like many of us are saying watch your own things a bit closer and the Track should provided some paddock security both during the races and at night.

[Al Weyman]

They ain't rookies though just drive like em.

[HairyDJ]

Not unsympathetic to you racing guys with your expensive tools & kit, but spare a thought for the marshals - we either have to carry it with us for the whole day, or walk away from the (locked!) car hoping it & it's contents will still be there 8-10 hours later.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

They ain't rookies though just drive like em.

Oh gawd, I was affraid some one was going to say that..


Yes the Marshals have to lock up there cars as well.

[Col_Rugby]

Just a quick one.

There have been a few instances recently of marshals having belongings stolen, mainly from tents etc. Luckly I've not been one of the unfortunate ones but the most recent was from a marshal at the GP. It was only a cap, as he says, but its the principle. It was stolen from his gazebo whilst he was sleeping,I think, emptying things from his fishing box (used to carry his equipment to & from post) & leaving them all over the floor but only taking his Silvestone cap. Stupid I know.
All this was done with security on the entrance to the marshals only campsite & coloured wristbands to gain entrance. Was it another marshal? Was it a "friend" of the security person? I don't know but I really hope it wasn't a marshal as I like to think of fellow marshals as friends. Like you guys like to think of fellow racers as friends & would hate to think that a friend would steal from you.
I don't know what the quick answer is or even if there is one. Sadly I think it's a state of the world thing where the trust is rapidly disappearing.
Play safe

Col