Interesting Peugeot Observation

[WMUCarGuy]

I've been watching some of my DVRed 24 Hours of Le Mans, and I noticed on several occasions, Peugeot was using 2 tire guns during pit stops.

I thought there was a 1 gun rule for this year???

[Dead-Eye]

There's a 1 gun at the same time rule. Most teams developed a choreography where one gun is used for two wheels, then the mechanics go back into the garage and two fresh ones come out with a new gun to do the rest.

[WMUCarGuy]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

There's a 1 gun at the same time rule. Most teams developed a choreography where one gun is used for two wheels, then the mechanics go back into the garage and two fresh ones come out with a new gun to do the rest.

It seemed pretty clearly to be 2 guns at the same time, they had 1 set on the right front and one on the right rear.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by WMUCarGuy

It seemed pretty clearly to be 2 guns at the same time, they had 1 set on the right front and one on the right rear.

I find that highly unlikely, as I am sure that their pitstops were viewed/reviewed by other teams. Had they used 2 guns at once everybody would have known about it, as it would have been protested as it is illegal! And just where (segment & time) did this seem to occur?






L.P.

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by WMUCarGuy

It seemed pretty clearly to be 2 guns at the same time, they had 1 set on the right front and one on the right rear.

I saw that too, but the technician tending the gun at the right front stepped into the garage as the technician tending the other gun stepped forward to the right rear. It was some pretty interesting choreography indeed, but apparently legal.

DK

[Audi Racer]

It is true peugeot did use more than one wheel gun so did many other teams.
the pitbox is designated by a line that separates it from the garage. You can only have one gun in the pitbox at a time. they choreographed it so that the first two guys would take care of left sides then get back across the line into the garage allowing the next two guys to take care of right sides with the second wheel gun.

[chernaudi]

Audi also did the same thing, appearantly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGHOcdpPO3U

And: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEZrihb7Cek

Unconventional, and maybe bending the original spirit of the rule, but entirely legal.

[Adam43]

The idea was to lengthen the time take to change the wheels, which it still did. And it still let teams work hard and clever. I don't see any loss of spirit there.

[ger80]

Think they should repeat the race due to this ...

[Adam43]

...or at least protest the result.

Does that mean Aston wins? *awaits the youtube video*

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Audi Racer

It is true peugeot did use more than one wheel gun so did many other teams.
the pitbox is designated by a line that separates it from the garage. You can only have one gun in the pitbox at a time. they choreographed it so that the first two guys would take care of left sides then get back across the line into the garage allowing the next two guys to take care of right sides with the second wheel gun.

And they have been doing it all season

[Tim the Grey]

I remember there being THREE guns racked up on the wall at Audi.

Yes, the rules say one gun, at any time. There were many interpretations of this by various teams...

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

I remember there being THREE guns racked up on the wall at Audi.

Yes, the rules say one gun, at any time. There were many interpretations of this by various teams...

That is perfectly acceptable. Keyword the 3 guns were on the wall. Eveybody had the same interpretation not many intepretations and it is not that hard to understand. The rules say one gun in the PITLANE at a time during the pit stops. The team can have 100 guns in the garage and it does not matter. The pitlane is separated from the garage by a line on the floor.
Theres no discussion here

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by WMUCarGuy

It seemed pretty clearly to be 2 guns at the same time, they had 1 set on the right front and one on the right rear.

You're probably right but you need to look at the ground. The mechanics where standing behind the white line which means they were in the garage.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Simple rule would have been to have the rules say that the same gun has to be used for all four tires...

[Adam43]

Which would have been pants when the gun failed half way through. The rule is bob on IMHO.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Which would have been pants when the gun failed half way through. The rule is bob on IMHO.

X2




L.P.

[prototype]

I loved the old rules, 4 guys and 2 guns. I hope we go back to those in the future.

But if they were serious about costs, it should be 2 guys and 1 gun. A 2nd gun can only be used if the first gun fails. If 2 guns are used, a 5 second hold penalty should be enforced.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Which would have been pants when the gun failed half way through. The rule is bob on IMHO.

Force majure allows a new gun. Not that complicated, really.

[Flat12-Aircool]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

Simple rule would have been to have the rules say that the same gun has to be used for all four tires...

And also a stupid rule.

It was brought in under the guise of to encourage the teams to use Harder tyres, but most suspect it was to even out Driver change times between Coupes and Spyders.

For me there was nothing wrong with the old 2 gun rule, as the cars already use harder tyres than the likes of F1 etc so why bother.

In my opinion, if they want to encourage the usage of even harder tyres then a simple way would be allow the teams to run a bigger fuel tank.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by prototype

But if they were serious about costs, it should be 2 guys and 1 gun. A 2nd gun can only be used if the first gun fails. If 2 guns are used, a 5 second hold penalty should be enforced.

Another options could be: use as many guns you like, but the 4 tyres have to be replaced by the same 2 mechanics.

With the current rules, the tyre change is performed by 6 guys (and 3 guns), while with the old rules it only toke 4 guys (and 2 guns).

[Tim the Grey]

Exactly. The law of unintended consequences strikes again. A 'cost cutting' measure ends up more expensive in the long run...

I'd be happier with longer stints, forcing drivers to adapt to changing weight in the cars, and longer tyre life. Bigger fuel tanks are the way? Endurance racing should be about ENDURANCE, after all.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

I'd be happier with longer stints, forcing drivers to adapt to changing weight in the cars, and longer tyre life. Bigger fuel tanks are the way? Endurance racing should be about ENDURANCE, after all.

In 2011 the prototypes will have smaller fuel tanks: 75 liter for petrol and 65 liter for diesel.

[ROB IS THE STIG]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

In 2011 the prototypes will have smaller fuel tanks: 75 liter for petrol and 65 liter for diesel.

Thats gonna make for a lot of stops surely!! Could mix things up a bit!

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by ROB IS THE STIG

Thats gonna make for a lot of stops surely!! Could mix things up a bit!

ACO envisions LMP1 engines to produce 520 bhp in 2011. That is 20% less than today (if you take 650 bhp a reference). The tank will 17% for petrols (75 vs 90 liter) and 20% for diesels (65 vs 81 liter). So in theory the length of a stint will not change. With KERS they might be able to squeeze an extra lap out of a full tank.