MSA misinterprets regs?

[JohnD]

Anyone else read the emailed "MSA News"?
Call me a regs freak, but it contains this item:

"Aerodynamic devices
The MSA Technical Department regularly comes across stage rally vehicles fitted with rear wings. As such, the Department wishes to draw attention
to MSA General Regulation (J)5.2.7, which states that – single-seaters aside
– aerodynamic devices may only be fitted if they are FIA homologated or in
compliance with National type approval. This refers to genuine components,
rather than replicas; it is the competitor’s own responsibility to prove the origins of such components."

While (J)5.2.7 reads, "Aerodynamic devices may only be fitted to single seat racing cars (unless prohibited by an Approved Formula), or where specifically permitted, where FIA homologated, or where complying with national type approval."

To me, that reg applies specifically to single seaters alone, on which the aero bits must comply with formula or homologation specs. Just in case you wanted to get around this one.
John

[flagwaver]

Sorry JohnD makes sense to me.

[SWCRacing]

And me! Reads that unless you are driving a sinle seater, where they are allowed, then they ain't allowed unless homologated by the FIA or covered by a national vehicle type approval

[graham bahr]

Originally Posted by SWCRacing

And me! Reads that unless you are driving a sinle seater, where they are allowed, then they ain't allowed unless homologated by the FIA or covered by a national vehicle type approval

thats how i read it

[Hickey]

On reading just that text alone (as I have absolutely no prior knowledge of the subject area or regs, or first hand-hand experience), given the place of the comma/dashes, it actually reads that "single seaters aside, you may fit a rear-wing so long as it is permitted/FIA homologated", which does suggest applying to more than just single-seaters. Similarly in the second one, it says, "can only fit to single seaters OR where it is permitted/FIA homologated". Again, suggests something more than single seaters.

As I say, I don't know the context of these rules etc, so just going on the text above (which is dangerous). And of course, it does depend on it being permitted.

[BertMk2]

Basically it's saying that you can't fit a rear wing to a car (other than a single seater) unless:

a) The wing is fitted to the car as standard.
b) The wing is a homologated part for that type car (and you can prove it).
c) The regs specifically say you can fit wings.

So for stage rallying (which the original post relates to) you can't just stick any old rear wing on a car (a lot of cars have wings fitted that are outside these regs - there are a lot of "discussions" at scrutineering about wings).

[graeme]

Intended for stage rallies, be does this new interpretation affect clubman and "super sillouette" racing cars!? I doubt any Mallock wings are FIA homologated; I wouldn't even know what "compliance with National type approval" means...

[graeme]

Doh - "or where specifically permitted" - would cover them...?

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by graeme

Doh - "or where specifically permitted" - would cover them...?

Yep, that's my take on it - a lot of racing categories will have specific regs for wings written in to their own rule sets and that overrides the "no wings" general rule.

[graeme]

With the way the MSA is screwing up with rewriting regs recently it just wouldn't have suprised me to see yet another cock up!

[BertMk2]

Don't get me started on the MSA and reg changes - some of the time it seems as though they don't actually want people to compete at all

[Tim Falce]

Maybe the thread should be retitled "JohnD misinterprets regs?"

[JohnD]

Clearly Hickey and I see it differently.

If you remove the brackets, the words become clearer:
"Aerodynamic devices may only be fitted to single seat racing cars where specifically permitted, where FIA homologated, or where complying with national type approval."

It only makes sense if it applies to single seaters. It may, or may not apply to other cars; the reg. doesn't say. If anyone who wants to fit a giant spoiler on the back of their Skoda should get a letter from their old English teacher - I'm sure they would agree!

"Maybe the thread should be retitled "JohnD misinterprets regs?" "
Tim, you have penetrated my disguise!

John Regbender

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by JohnD

It only makes sense if it applies to single seaters. It may, or may not apply to other cars; the reg. doesn't say.

Seems clear enough to me:

it applies to single seaters

or:

or where specifically permitted,

i.e. if series regs allow aerodynamic devices

or:

where FIA homologated,

self explanatory

or:

or where complying with national type approval.

i.e. where specified in type approval for a road car.

Only the first part specifies car type (single seaters); the rest is not car-specific.

[Darren Wilcox]

Whatever it says i think people that fit big daft rear wings to rally cars for no other reason than to make their car look stupid, should fail scrutineering just on principal for bringing the sport down to the level of Chav in B&Q carpark.

BTW it says exactly what it says, as many people have already pointed out and no matter how many times i read it i car'nt see any other way it could be interpteted other than don't do it your not allowed to and your car will look stupid if you do !!!!!!!!!