Tony in trouble

[Armco Bender]

Razzzor.....thats the worst post I've ever seen on here.

[Nicholosophy]

Thread title is right. "Tony (is) in trouble".

Regardless of what happened, and how it happened, and what actions he and Kevin Ward Jr took, Ward Jr is dead. I can't imagine for a second that Tony Stewart has an intention to kill anyone when on the track. Even if he is found culpable, I don't think anyone could pin it as premeditated or intentional.

So yes, Tony is in trouble. I dare say he would be quite a mess.

Also in "trouble" are Kevin Ward Jr's family, who will be struggling to deal with this plus the constant reminders from the media, the videos, the investigation to come, etc.

We can make our own judgements based on what we have read in the media and seen on the TV, but we don't have all the facts. Only the authorities will once they do a through investigation.

Perhaps a better focus for those who love motorsport is to consider what we can take from this to make the sport safer. Like punishing drivers who do reckless things (throwing helmets at cars, walking onto the track) and even suspending them if needed.

There also perhaps needs to be rules in place that when a driver is involved in an incident that results in a fatality, there is an instant period of suspension in order to allow investigations to occur and to allow sanctioning bodies to ensure that the driver is in a sound mental to participate and not be a danger.

Thoughts be with both Kevin Ward Jr, his family, and Tony Stewart and his family.

[davec]

What we know so far is:

1, A your 20 year old has died in horrible circumstances on a global stage.
2, His parents and family will be seeing pictures of this over and over again.
3, A world famous racing driver was involved meaning more coverage.
4, Tony Stewart will be feeling unimaginably bad (I WILL NOT go into the guilty/innocent argument). He was involved in this death and it was not a normal racing accident, he must have played it back in his head millions of times now and it will probably end his career. The incident was avoidable but that does not make it manslaughter or murder.

Some of the comments on this forum are slightly concerning as I thought the we were better then the normal "jump on the band wagon" types.

I have seen the video, I have no idea if Tony was responsible or not, I do not see how people on here can be 100% certain of guilt.

Maybe I am missing some major part of the video that has the onboard and telemetry that makes people certain......

[Reload]

Unlike some others I think it's laughable that anyone other than Tony Stewart knows what was going through Tony Stewart's head at that fateful time. Whilst i am unwilling to make a call on the incident, there is one thing that is a fact and that is that Tony Stewart's bully boy history is not a friend of his at this time.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by davec

I do not see how people on here can be 100% certain of guilt.

They can't. All any of us can do is express an opinion.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

You're biting but I'll continue to bite my tongue here and everywhere. The absolute conviction of people on this incident almost makes me as sick as the incident itself.

Seconded!

Some people need to go and take a long hard look at themselves!

[EvilPumpkin]

ok folks, you have already been warned once, but now I'm warning again.

To the majority of you who are discussing this issue sensibly and with respect, thank you and please continue. This is a subject that needs to be discussed in that way.

To the minority - opinion is not fact. You don't get to post your opinions as fact, and hysterical outbursts and wild accusations of motive are completely unacceptable.

Back to the majority to continue discussion!

[Not Omnipotent]

(Take 2) Hello people!

So, in one corner you have BIARB, then you have the rest. And then there's Razzzor (thanks a lot for being rational and thinking your post through! It's the most reasonable post on here and ignore the hate. Your logic is totally correct at this current time).

BIARB was initially throwing a tantrum about how Tony Stewart killed someone. Almost everyone else then ridiculed him and said "how can we know" and "you’re stupid" and "use your brain," etc, etc, etc, etc, etc until he basically rage quit this thread. Whilst that is probably for the better, his actions and the subsequent actions by everyone else (hello Garcon!) were also pretty shocking examples on how pathetic humans can be to each other.

It seems to me that people are trying to deflect blame off of Stewart. Ward walked up to him, he couldn’t have seen him, he accelerated to avoid him (how does that even make sense on a low-grip venue? Going faster with less grip will result on less control unless the mass/downforce on the sprint car design forces more mass onto the wheels. Even so, accelerating from 3 yards out, that would make 0% difference). After all, how many of you have driven a night race at the particular venue in that particular type of Sprint Car in those conditions?

I am not saying you’re wrong, but I personally think that this is the natural thing to do. Stewart is an icon of the sport, and for him to have been involved in something like this is indescribable. This is natural for most people. Most of you guys are almost saying “this cannot have happened,” probably sub-consciously, and as a result come up with reasons why it wasn’t Stewart’s fault. Perhaps the officials should’ve dragged Ward away from the wreckage? Perhaps Ward should never have gone up to Stewart? Well, perhaps Stewart shouldn’t have hit the accelerator pedal. Nobody wins.

This is perfectly natural. I just think it’s time someone pointed it out, otherwise this thread won’t be about the incident, but about how Kevin Ward Jr killed himself by accident whilst trying to wind up Tony Stewart. I’m not in any way defending Ward, but I think it’s time somebody actually put the blame where it should lie – in both Stewart and Ward’s hands.

I’m not going to make any judgements of any sort on the incident other than to say that two wrongs do not make a right. Both drivers were in the wrong, and despite some of the posts on here, I think you all know that.

As more details get uncovered from this case, I want you all to remember this quote:
“If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t change it, change your attitude.”

Perhaps the fact will be tougher to face than you think. If it is, however, don’t come up with excuses. Just accept it.

And once more I must credit Razzzor for saving this thread from plummeting into the depths of human ignorance by considering both sides of the argument and then coming to a conclusion.

Have a good day! This is Josh signing out.

[fomoco]

THis is a blight on the world of motorsport, but, as some have posted, THis will be hard one to disect.

As a motorsport official , juducial, the video on the net is inconclusive.
It would be hard to make a judgement call now.

And all my years of watching , involved with motorsport, we have always been told, never, go onto a "hot Track".

SO I will await the authorites investigation and report. I feel sorry for both , Kevin and Tony, as no one ever wants to see this , irespective of where in the world it occured.

RIP Kevin

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by Salamus

I'm biting on this only because this is a very serious issue and some people's opinions are just wrong.

Have you ever driven a sprint car on a dirt track? You don't drive them like normal cars on a paved surface. In the past two days, I've seen comments from some people here and many others on other websites explaining how a sprint car is driven. Using the throttle is necessary to be able to control the car.

Clearly? Where is your evidence then? Nothing about this is clear.

For the most part, I agree with you on this.

Intentionally? Again, where is your evidence?

Well yeah it's all just speculation and opinion, none of us really know what was going trough Tony's head. Maybe he never even saw Ward at all.

Another reason he could have accelerated at that point may have been because he was trying to get away from Ward. Perhaps he thought Ward was going to throw something at the car (like his helmet) and stepped on it? Who knows.

No I've never driven a sprint car, but do you really need to throttle slide the car to get it around a corner at low speed under caution? High speed, sure, but low speed with another driver on foot right next to you? I wouldn't have thought so.

[Razzzor]

Re Armco Bender, ah well I did post it directly after reading and seeing the incident, I was probably pretty hot about it seeing a poor driver die and the involvement of one of my favourite drivers. Nevertheless I think it's far from worst post ever.

Thanks Not Omnipotent, I agree with all of your post!

[Richard C]

My condolences to the family and friends of Kevin Ward Jr.

Assuming we have all see the same video, the level of "absolute certainty" on the conclusions being reached by people is shocking. I don't even want to comment as to what "I" see as it would just be more unfounded speculation.

As to drivers walking on a hot track to vent their anger at someone. It can't be 100% stopped, but until stiff penalties are handed out, preventable accidents and deaths like this will continue.

Richard

[davyboy]

I don't think it's been posted here yet, but for what it's worth, Tony Stewart's not currently facing criminal charges. This is according to the Ontario County Sheriff.

Autosport piece here.

[Paradise City]

Ontario County Sheriff: 'All options remain open' in Tony Stewart case

[f1toy]

jmo:

1. no charges
2. new rules about leaving a disabled car on track.
3. $$$$ for the family.
4. biz as usual at nascar.
5. sleepless nights for ts.

[Woolley]

In all of this, just spare a thought for the safety crews who witnessed this and then had to deal with the aftermath. I can't imagine what they've been going through the last few days.

[f1toy]

Originally Posted by Woolley

In all of this, just spare a thought for the safety crews who witnessed this and then had to deal with the aftermath. I can't imagine what they've been going through the last few days.

+1

ts credited nascar safety workers for saving his leg and possibly his life.

they were so fast to respond, the guy must have been killed instantly.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Woolley

In all of this, just spare a thought for the safety crews who witnessed this and then had to deal with the aftermath. I can't imagine what they've been going through the last few days.

Well put.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Woolley

In all of this, just spare a thought for the safety crews who witnessed this and then had to deal with the aftermath. I can't imagine what they've been going through the last few days.

Agree - would have been harrowing at the time and no doubt haunting them still.

[chernaudi]

Audi fansite article on what it's like to be a journalist at a "hot track" event. Not the same as being a driver, but it shows how professional racing tends to take "hot track" action seriously, including the fact that photogs who violate hot track etiquette can be banned from attending WEC events and events at Le Mans until the end of the racing season:

http://fourtitude.com/news/motorspor...-tony-stewart/

Maybe similar restrictions need to be placed on drivers who aren't trying to avoid on-track action and get too close to other cars for retaliatory reasons. As I've said, I'd rather see fist fights in the pits and garage area than some of the close on-track stuff.

[davyboy]

Everyone participating and/or involved in the running of these types of events is fully aware that they should not do what Kevin Ward Jr did. I's nothing new. It's always been that way. Unfortunately people do things they're not supposed to do and expose themselves to grave danger in the process. We will never know why Kevin did what he did and I'm not sure it's possible to legislate something like this happening again.

[wolf sun]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Well yeah it's all just speculation and opinion, none of us really know what was going trough Tony's head. Maybe he never even saw Ward at all.

Another reason he could have accelerated at that point may have been because he was trying to get away from Ward. Perhaps he thought Ward was going to throw something at the car (like his helmet) and stepped on it? Who knows.

No I've never driven a sprint car, but do you really need to throttle slide the car to get it around a corner at low speed under caution? High speed, sure, but low speed with another driver on foot right next to you? I wouldn't have thought so.

I have posted this elsewhere, too. I still cannot believe how people take it as a fact that Stewart even accelerated. There is no (as in zero) factual evidence of him blipping the throttle in that video.

[Peat]

I was away over the weekend and only learned of this yesterday.

I have to say I am shocked and appalled. This has to be one of the most grotesque things to have ever happened on a racetrack.

I agree that too many assumptions are being drawn from that single video. There is nothing conclusive there, it can be construed in several ways.

I fail to believe that there was any intent, Tony Stewart is a bit of a gentleman's appendage, but even he wouldn't be that screw-loose. I would entertain the theory of him attempting to 'scare' the kid or disrespecting him by spraying him with dirt. I just don't think he expected the guy to be stood right on the high line, in the dark, in an all black get-up...

Whatever happens, a 20yr old is left dead and one of NASCAR's biggest stars career has ended. Dreadfully sad event.

[f1toy]

Originally Posted by Peat

one of NASCAR's biggest stars career has ended.

i think there's only a 10% chance his career is over.

nascar is like a lot of big corps. they're better at branding than quality.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Everyone participating and/or involved in the running of these types of events is fully aware that they should not do what Kevin Ward Jr did. I's nothing new. It's always been that way. Unfortunately people do things they're not supposed to do and expose themselves to grave danger in the process. We will never know why Kevin did what he did and I'm not sure it's possible to legislate something like this happening again.

I agree that you can never absolutely stop stuff like this, but I do think that stiff penalties can have a positive influence.

I can imagine scenarios today in which if someone confronts another driver on track, that later in the paddock, even if generally viewed as a bad thing, there is going to be a level of "attaboy", back slaps, thumbs up and high fives and ultimately some wrist slapping as punishment. What needs to happen is that when the driver gets back to the paddock, the reaction is "I can't believe you did that, you are really screwed!" The problem is that the practice is effectively only "frowned" upon officially and unofficially celebrated.

I would say a stiff penalty for first time offender such as removal from the racing series for period of time and that repeat offenders are eventually banned. Nobody should be walking around on a hot track ranting at other drivers. I don't want to accidently run someone down that is doing this. Take your arguments, etc. and settle them off the track.

Richard