CRC Motorsport - positives & negatives

[socram]

Dad: "hey son, how would you like to go to a race meeting tomorrow?"

Son: "Woohoo! Yes please dad. Will I be able to see any of the cars from the posters in my bedroom? Will they be real racing cars?"
Dad: "Well, lets see what turns up tomorrow. I haven't been to a race meeting for years but as a teenager and before you came along, me and your uncles would be at the track almost every weekend during the summer."
_____
Son: "I've been awake since 5am Dad. I'm really looking forward to going to a real race meeting."
_________
At the race track.

Son: "Dad? Dad? Where are the racing cars? All I can see are a few utes, and a few saloon cars that all look like the stuff on our street, but with numbers stuck on and a load of decals. I haven't seen anything like the posters on my walls or the cars in any of your motorsport books."

Lunchtime.

Son: "Can we go home Dad? I'm bored. There's nothing happening on the track most of the time?"

Dad: "Hang on son, this is the pinnacle of NZ motorsport. I know you've spent the last few years with your head in my books, but things have changed now. This is the new age and everyone has to have the same car, otherwise someone might build a better car that is faster than everyone else and they might win."

Son: "Oh, you mean the man with the most money?

Dad: "Well, yes, er, no. Everyone has to have the same car so that those with more money cant necessarily win."

Son: "So everything is about money then? It isn't about building cars such as the Lycoming Special, or the Maybach or putting a Corvette engine into a Ford Zephyr or running an out of date ex Le Mans sports car? It must just be about car sales then?

Dad: "Well, yes."

Son: "So if the grids are small, it must be because people can't afford it?

Dad "Well, not quite, but they have the choice of half a dozen different series to enter."

Son: "So why don't they have fewer series and more cars on track, as surely, that would be better racing on track as well as on TV?"

Dad: "I suppose so, but then there wouldn't be much racing on TV because there would only be one race with the money to televise as the others wouldn't pool their budgets."

Son: "So it isn't just about the money spent on the cars, its is all about advertising budgets?"

Dad: "Yes, I suppose so."

Son: "I'm not that sure I'm keen on going to a race track again dad."

Dad: "Me too son. How about going to a race meeting where the cars are the same as in my books?"

Son: "Wow, yes please Dad! Do you mean they still race them, here in NZ?

Dad: "Sure do son."

[NZSTfan]

Very good socram.......I think we all get your point

However, if your story was actually written in modern times, that kid would have his/her head stuck in a smartphone and be mumbling on about how hard life is, and 'you just don't get me anymore Dad.....I hate you!' and he/she probably wouldn't want to be seen dead with his/her Dad anyway, as that's not cool. They'd be more interested in checking out the latest tweets from some irrelevant rapper who can't wear a T-shirt and cap properly, and talks in a language that only they know how to decipher.
I laughed at the 'I've been up since 5am' line as that's what I was like when I was a kid and was about to go fishing. Nowadays I fear that if a teenager is up at 5am, its because they are usually jacked up on Red Bull, or are checking Tinder for PR's and MILF's....

Please don't take this the wrong way socram, as I totally get your point. I wish that the youth of today were like the one in your story, but they don't seem to be.

I guess the same can be said for motorsport. In your story above, it could quite easily be taken out of a Enid Blyton novel, where, at the time, people who went to motorsport were often treated to a horrific sight of someone dying or being burnt to death....ahem:

Son: Dad, look at that, the crazy race car has hit the sandbags and bales of hay and there is a funny sweet smell in the air..

Dad: Ah yes, we get that from time to time. They are heroes young boy!

Son: Oh look Dad, Patches o' Hoolahans' car is now on fire

Dad: That's because the fuel tank is right behind the driver to keep COG at its best. I'll explain COG to you when we get home to one of Mums amazing roasts!

Son: Can't wait dad.....why is Patches waving his arms around?

Dad: oh he's just waving to the crowd. The overweight marshal over there will put out his cigarette soon, and walk over with a bucket of water to put him out.

Son: Dad, Patches has stopped waving his arms about now and is slumped in his seat....

Dad: lets head off home and let the ambulance people make him right again. We'll see Patches again I am sure. Who wants to ride shot gun in the Austin 7?

Son: Me Daddy, me!!!

Dad: Oh I will miss you when you go off to boarding school...

Son: Wha what?

Times have changed socram, and I do wish that the pinnacle of motorsport as you mention above, does one day return to this country. At the moment it is about money (as you say), and about greed, and paying the bills (as you also elude too).

I too wish that kids these days where like the kid in your story. Some no doubt are, but many, just don't give a ***t (and they are our future...yay!)

great story socram, and I will repeat, I agree with what you are getting at.

[BackSeat Driver]

Yep, my 12yo son loves Ken Block and everything to do with drifting. Wings and wheels are not his thing, he likes the glamour of going sideways despite my love of muscle cars and V8's.

Everyone is different, everyone is entitled to an opinion, there is so much going on in Auckland at any one weekend that you are bound to see a difference from yester-year.

[GT 86]

I think the ship has sailed on public attending many sports. TV seems to be the only thing holding a majority of sports up in the public domain. You cant buy a crowd these days in NZ motorsport, cricket, NPC or super 15 with the exception of V8 Supercars when it comes to Pukekohoe but this is more an annual event than a race. There are no quantity of spectators in rallying except when the WRC comes to town but i did wander along to the D1NZ at Mt Smart over the weekend and was impressed at the amount of spectators there. Not sure how many over the weekend but it was quite a novelty having it there.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by GT 86

I think the ship has sailed on public attending many sports. TV seems to be the only thing holding a majority of sports up in the public domain. You cant buy a crowd these days in NZ motorsport, cricket, NPC or super 15 with the exception of V8 Supercars when it comes to Pukekohoe but this is more an annual event than a race. There are no quantity of spectators in rallying except when the WRC comes to town.

I agree with you GT. Other than the aforesaid unique International event's, big crowds at motor racing are finished, which is why TV is so critical to sponsor payback.

By all accounts the Highland's 101 had a reasonably good crowd with brilliant weather, however the ticket prices are going to mean it wont be long before the "been there done that" novelty factor will take its toll on the paying spectators. Certainly the locals that I know didn't bother going up the road this year.

[raymond]

Originally Posted by GT 86

There are no quantity of spectators in rallying except when the WRC comes to town.

There were around 4500 people at the start of the Coromandel round of the NZRC a couple of months ago

[GT 86]

Originally Posted by raymond

There were around 4500 people at the start of the Coromandel round of the NZRC a couple of months ago

Not paying Raymond and thats the difference. This was also a new event, and a bloody good one on all accounts.

I didnt know there was 4500 people that lived in Whitianga

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by GT 86

I didnt know there was 4500 people that lived in Whitianga

Depends if you include the boaties (or 'floating caravan park' as my wife described it!)

[The Realist]

Originally Posted by GT 86

I think the ship has sailed on public attending many sports. TV seems to be the only thing holding a majority of sports up in the public domain. You cant buy a crowd these days in NZ motorsport, cricket, NPC or super 15 with the exception of V8 Supercars when it comes to Pukekohoe but this is more an annual event than a race. There are no quantity of spectators in rallying except when the WRC comes to town but i did wander along to the D1NZ at Mt Smart over the weekend and was impressed at the amount of spectators there. Not sure how many over the weekend but it was quite a novelty having it there.

V8 Supercars get a large crowd because people want to see the cars, drivers and experience the hype and atmosphere.
The Australian Gt's had a large crowd that far exceeded the population of the area where it was staged in Cromwell, and I suggest for the same reasons as the Supercars.
NZ based classes in tintop track racing have destroyed their ability to pull the same crowds over a number of years for a number of reasons.
It is now time to rebuild, even if it means playing 2nd or 3rd fiddle to these imported roadshows.
Or even better, shock horror, have NZV8's or Supertourers as a support class to drifting, truck racing etc.

[Woolley]

TV is both friend and demon. It shows the series that are able to be big* enough to get on television. Up here that's F1 and it's supports and BTCC, and on more specialist channels WRC, WEC, Indycar, and on even more specialist, Aussie V8s.

Spectator numbers for race meetings in Britain are largely representative of their TV coverage.

Last week-end I marshalled the Walter Hayes trophy, a festival for historic Formula Fords (and lots of them), probably the most entertaining, closely fought meetings of the year. There must have been a couple of dozen spectators and no TV coverage.

Shame. If only the tele would show the best racing, then the spectators might go and find out what those of us who are committed enthusiasts know. Which is probably how we came to be committed enthusiasts in the first place, because somehow we discovered it.

[socram]

Agree Woolley.

I attended the St John Horsfall Aston Martin Meeting at Donington. Great cars but there were less than two dozen spectators attending by the time I left - straight after the only heavy rain of our whole month in the UK!

However, the track has been turned into an anti spectator area and even though I had an active involvement that goes back to well before the track reopened, I won't be going back, as I refuse to pay good money to stand behind wire fencing that precludes taking decent photographs.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by socram

I refuse to pay good money to stand behind wire fencing that precludes taking decent photographs.

This is one I have mixed feeling about. On at least two occasions when I've been there a car has managed to get outside the fencing. I can think of several occasions where a car has hit the fencing. And I haven't even been there for about 6 years.

On the other hand, if there's only a dozen spectators then the fencing moves the danger to the marshals who are in front of it.

But that's moving away from the topic.

[socram]

The point is Woolley, that what TV manages to show, does not relate to the spectator experience at the tracks.

I am old enough to remember rope and straw bales at Gamston and many Kiwi spectators will have memories of similar set ups here. Most of us would also be well aware of notices prominently displayed, stating that "Motor Racing is Dangerous".

It always has been and to a degree, always will be.

Total risk cannot be eliminated as even in NZ, many of us witnessed a Porsche leaping the tall fencing at Pukekohe, on the front straight, landing virtually in the stand (not even on a corner) that brought back memories of the tragic 1955 Le Mans race. It could so easily have resulted in several deaths had it not been for the strength of the car and the fact that it stayed together and the spectators weren't sprayed with hot oil or raw fuel.

However, we can't really complain about poor spectator numbers when even poor TV does a better job than being live at the track. One visit to most modern tracks is going to put off all but the most dedicated petrolhead - for ever.

Goodwood's Revival meeting is the ultimate classic example of a meeting where the spectator experience is worth travelling across to the far side of the world and should be on everyone's bucket list.

TV can't make it any better than it is live, because there are so many vantage points around the track and you can in fact walk the whole way around with no tall fencing anywhere. The fact that the cars are the stars (on and off the track) is also a factor, not to mention Lord March's talent.

Here in NZ, whilst TV can follow a dozen vehicles (or less) around any track and make it look moderately interesting (given that most of the vehicles aren't even remotely interesting) just means that TV viewing where you can sit back with a cuppa or a beer, whilst reading the paper or working on a lap top, is a viable alternative to making the effort to go to the track.

I have crossed off most tracks now as a spectator, so the two I happily go to as a spectator are Goodwood - of course, and the Hampton Downs Festival Meetings and that is to see the huge variety of cars and come back each day with 1500 pics or more TAKEN FROM THE PUBLIC VIEWING areas.

If you watch the YouTube clips of Goodwood, you sit and squirm and wish you'd been there.

Watch most of the NZ TV coverage and you sit and squirm, grateful that you weren't there - and that is not a reflection on the TV team. (I look forward to the Highlands Park meeting being broadcast.)

How can a commentator make racing really interesting when he can't entertain and inform the crowd when talking about vehicles that are identical, have no history and are not sufficiently interesting that you want to rush out and buy one or at least, lust after buying one?

Live commentary at the track is about entertaining and informing the paying public (not TV commentary) when to a large degree, the cars may be out of sight anyway?

Great stuff when you hear that a car was driven by Fangio or Moss, or was built out of number 8 fencing wire, string and cardboard and has a Tiger Moth engine that was found in a field, the car was built in a leaky shed by a guy who only has one eye and three working fingers on each hand. It is part of the colour of the sport and that has been removed.

[raymond]

Originally Posted by GT 86

Not paying Raymond and thats the difference. This was also a new event, and a bloody good one on all accounts.

I didnt know there was 4500 people that lived in Whitianga

Good point GT about it being free to watch. The numbers were good for our sponsors and for the Event PR with the local council who want it back in spades, so those are the plus points.
Apparently during summer there's 15000 Aucklanders there trying to escape the "super-city"

[GHOGH]

The spectators at the Pukekohe Dean Fulford Porsche crash did get a bit of oil on them.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10378583

http://youtu.be/B0HmowjndXM

Even the list of incidents at the end of the article is not complete as there are few left off.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by socram

The point is Woolley, that what TV manages to show, does not relate to the spectator experience at the tracks.

All good points, and I do realise from your posts on here that you are a true enthusiast of the sport who happens to be the television person, and that does give much better chances.

My comments were more general, in that there is risk of a downward spiral where the best events don't get televised and so don't attract spectators and the worst events do get televised and aren't appealing to spectators. Or they do go and find the experience is poor, never to return. If television could select the races to show based on merit it's possible the spectators might get attracted to the best meetings to the benefit of all.

Goodwood, curiously, doesn't appeal to me at all, but then I'm not really a fan of the cars.

[socram]

Originally Posted by Woolley

All good points, and I do realise from your posts on here that you are a true enthusiast of the sport who happens to be the television person....

Nigel is the TV person! My TV involvement has been limited to one short studio appearance and voice over commentary assist.

Not sure of your age Woolley, but Saturday afternoon UK TV sport in the 50's and 60's used to cover the following:

Sporting Car Trials (mud plugging!)
Autotests - inter area
Circuit racing from Oulton Park, Brands Hatch, Goodwood, Aintree, Crystal Palace etc.
Speed Hillclimbs such as Gt Auclum, Rest-And-Be-Thankful, Gurston Down etc.
Point to Point - London Motor Club vs the Army (one of my favourite annual events!)

The point being that much of what was shown wasn't high profile, but it did show the real diversity of the sport and sponsorship/advertising (BBC!) didn't exist.

Higher profile events such as Le Mans, Goodwood 9 Hours, the Monaco GP, Oulton Park Gold Cup and the Intermational Trophy from Silverstone and a F1 race from Snetterton were also televised. The Monte Carlo Rally used to get huge coverage on TV and radio.

Goodwood is attractive for we oldies as the nostalgia factor is high, but the huge variety and full grids are a massive drawcard. You don't see Connaughts and Scarabs on the street...

We get Commodores, Falcons and Utes every day on the street. We don't need to go to a race track and pay to see them.

[BlueBlood]

Originally Posted by socram

Nigel is the TV person! My TV involvement has been limited to one short studio appearance and voice over commentary assist.
.

Woolley must have you confused for another of Nigel's screen aliases.





Disclaimer: before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, the above comment was a light hearted dig at a historical incident, not a serious allegation that Nigel has yet another profile under which he posts.

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by BlueBlood

Woolley must have you confused for another of Nigel's screen aliases.





Disclaimer: before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, the above comment was a light hearted dig at a historical incident, not a serious allegation that Nigel has yet another profile under which he posts.

Not offended Blue Blood.. all good mate... if you do the crime you gotta do the time!!

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by socram

Nigel is the TV person! My TV involvement has been limited to one short studio appearance and voice over commentary assist.

Whoops, I knew that. Forgot who I was quoting!

Not sure of your age Woolley, but Saturday afternoon UK TV sport in the 50's and 60's.

Not quite that old, but I do remember 70s rallycross, F3, FFord festival, Lombard RAC rally and so on.

[CDM]

Originally Posted by Woolley

the best events don't get televised and so don't attract spectators and the worst events do get televised and aren't appealing to spectators.

Isn't that generally whats happening now?

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by CDM

Isn't that generally whats happening now?

Yes, that's my point.

[socram]

That is the difference between "Free to Air" in its purest sense (ancient BBC) as opposed to what we have now, which is mainly programmes financed by advertisers or promoters which are shown for free as opposed to pay TV (Sky).

I'm sure Nigel will correct me if I am wrong, but in NZ, only Rugby, Netball and Cricket get any genuine free to air coverage (which may well be supported by advertising/ad breaks) and all other sports have to finance their own coverage. (I have no idea how horse racing operates, given that they have two TV channels.)

There are no dollar returns in covering Autotests/Motokhanas for example and they are not events that will ever get spectators in huge numbers. I'm willing to bet that unless Dad is a member of a car club running such events, teenagers wouldn't have clue that such a sport exists. The only exception may be those who have visited the amnnual Ellerslie Classic Car Show, where the MG Car club has run a series of inter club tests for the last few years. Watching Paul and Andrew Walbran or Den Williams displaying their skills is mind boggling - but it will never be shown on TV.

Most teenagers and early 20's these days seem to get off on the smell of burning rubber as drifting is huge.

In some respects, perfecting the cornering of circuit racing cars so that they now look as they are cornering on rails, may well be one of the factors that have led to its decline. That may also be one of the reasons why Central Muscle Cars and speedway have maintained crowd support?

I watched the Ssang Yong Utes yesterday and although the vehicles leave me stone cold, it was better racing than much of what we have had to watch in recent years - and much of that due to a decent sized grid.

However, I would dispute that this is entry level racing, judging by the support crews around each team. U2K Cup is entry level racing...

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by socram

I watched the Ssang Yong Utes yesterday and although the vehicles leave me stone cold, it was better racing than much of what we have had to watch in recent years - and much of that due to a decent sized grid.

However, I would dispute that this is entry level racing, judging by the support crews around each team. U2K Cup is entry level racing...

Thank you Ray for your rather back handed compliment, and I hasten to assure you that there is only one team actually paying for any help and thats because the two guys driving the cars have zero time to work on their utes, but both can afford to arrive and drive, the vast majority of our team's are "Mom and Pop" outfits with very few tools between them but lots of enthusiasm. We also provide technical and spare parts assistance, so no driver is completely on their own.

As I said in the Ssangyong thread I thought TV3's coverage was excellent, and I agree with you that having a big field makes it much more interesting.

We have a full field of 30 SRS utes at Pukekohe and a surprise STIG driving one of the utes for that round, in fact I doubt anybody would be able to guess who but you are all welcome to try!

[socram]

OK Mark, I put my guess in and say Stiglet aka racing Ray Williams?