[WEC] LMP1 where do we go from here?

[insane014]

Originally Posted by jee

ACO needs to create a LMPe class for electric prototypes.
This is what the market demands, this is what the manufacturers demand.

That would be directly involved with road car development. Formula E is far from being ideal for EV development but from marketing perspective it is the only one. Problem WEC faces is the fast tracks for pure EV racing. They would require battery change every half an hour or so. I don't see Fuel Cell being any relevant in the future unfortunately so I don't think they can rely on that either, although Toyota would have loved that.

Anyway once Formula E gig is done and EV technology gets into adolescence WEC will be relevant again. All those manufacturers from FE will come to WEC to showcase their real products. FE will have a hard time moving from spec series completely. Manufacturers enjoy marketing benefits from spec series right now but it will be a whole different game when FE tries to open up major parts for development and I'm not sure FE is ready for that yet. But WEC will be.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by insane014

FE will have a hard time moving from spec series completely. Manufacturers enjoy marketing benefits from spec series right now but it will be a whole different game when FE tries to open up major parts for development and I'm not sure FE is ready for that yet. But WEC will be.

Why would one series, built for smaller tracks and sprint races, fail where another would immediately be ready for success? Opening the parts up for development has been in the pipeline for years, hence the manufacturers now migrating over in preparation for new pieces being allowed. MB, Porsche, Audi all have time to work on their product and they know what the rules will be when they enter. BMW has been hanging around the Andretti crews to get a feel for it and working with the team in developing motors. I think they all know exactly what they are getting in to and know the marketing of the EVENT is what sells for them on the street, the innovation is what sells to the board.

Which do you think sells better to new fans, an afternoon event with everything from noon-6 pm in a city or a weekend event with gaps in the schedule and a commitment from the fan to travel out to the event? You can hate it all you want but honestly, they probably have ZERO interest in attracting old race fans. They are looking for the fans who weren't in to racing but might be attracted by something completely different.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

I think they all know exactly what they are getting in to and know the marketing of the EVENT is what sells for them on the street, the innovation is what sells to the board.

Which do you think sells better to new fans, an afternoon event with everything from noon-6 pm in a city or a weekend event with gaps in the schedule and a commitment from the fan to travel out to the event? You can hate it all you want but honestly, they probably have ZERO interest in attracting old race fans. They are looking for the fans who weren't in to racing but might be attracted by something completely different.

Yup. Good insight.

We "old-school" fans have a view of how racing is, has been, and should be ... and we are a dying breed, literally.

Modern "fans" and potential fans have a completely different set of expectations .. and generally are less willing to commit time, attention, and energy (to anything.) They want immediate gratification, sensory overload, constant variety ... they need to have three data streams running all the time or they fall asleep.

A six-Hour race? Six minutes is an eternity to these people. These are people who want to go downtown, eat, shop, text, instagram their selfies, and in between be diverted by street musicians, people-watching, and oh, look, here come those cars going by again! Wow, that's like three time they have passed by here!

If FIA has a single member with a brain, s/he will insist on a few things: low cost to competitors, short events, short circuits, in-city circuits. Today's fans don't show a lot of signs of being thrilled by tech, except in how they can use it---they want to see results, they don't want to see the code.

They want spectacle ... they don't care about the relative efficiency of two different battery/motor packages, the tradeoffs between different systems .... this car has more downforce and less drag ... Dude, talking about all that stuff is a drag. Here, let me post this picture of a pizza slice on Facebook.

I don't often agree with Broadrun, but this time he is right.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I don't often agree with Broadrun, but this time he is right.

[insane014]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Why would one series, built for smaller tracks and sprint races, fail where another would immediately be ready for success? Opening the parts up for development has been in the pipeline for years, hence the manufacturers now migrating over in preparation for new pieces being allowed. MB, Porsche, Audi all have time to work on their product and they know what the rules will be when they enter. BMW has been hanging around the Andretti crews to get a feel for it and working with the team in developing motors. I think they all know exactly what they are getting in to and know the marketing of the EVENT is what sells for them on the street, the innovation is what sells to the board.

Which do you think sells better to new fans, an afternoon event with everything from noon-6 pm in a city or a weekend event with gaps in the schedule and a commitment from the fan to travel out to the event? You can hate it all you want but honestly, they probably have ZERO interest in attracting old race fans. They are looking for the fans who weren't in to racing but might be attracted by something completely different.

If FE can't hold it together once manufacturers start shredding them apart like dogs because they want X and are willing to pull out if official stance is still Y then they have no chance in hell. They can either watch cost skyrocket into oblivion and manufacturers dropping out going somewhere else or they can pressure them not to spend money (develop) and watch them pull out.

WEC has LeMans Winner marketing bragging rights and they are more adaptable and flexible when it comes to trends and rules. If needed they would be ready to drop LMP1 as we know it in order to introduce something like GT500 with cars based off real cars but with prototype technology inside. That would be a hell more valuable to manufacturers then Formula E cause buyers could associate their road cars far better with something that resembles a road car than open wheel racecar.

Imo FE is just the stepping stone for manufacturers in EV battleground. Once technology grows up they will go somewhere else. There is a little chance FE will become flagship racing entity. Very little chance.

Time will tell.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by insane014

Imo FE is just the stepping stone for manufacturers in EV battleground. Once technology grows up they will go somewhere else. There is a little chance FE will become flagship racing entity. Very little chance. Time will tell.

I might disagree.

I think boards of directors have been getting more and more financially conservative, and are starting to demand more ROI.

FE could become like NASCAR, where there really isn't any development and the manufacturers race to get their names in the news.

Maybe FE won't ever get as big ans the biggest nation/international series ... but maybe the big manufacturers won't be so willing to sink big bucks into those series, either. if Audi spent over a billion (and I'd bet twice that) on five years of ILMC/WEC, what did they get?

Not many peple who are buying Audis are interested in racing. In fact, Audi probably makes most of its money selling loaded top-end luxury models to rich people, and second selling entry-level cars to people who want to "step up" to an Audi.

I doubt the ability of FIA to run on a smooth sidewalk, let alone run a race series. But I do think the manufacturers realize that a more "managed-competition" sort of series is best for everyone, because they All get ROI.

They all get to claim a podium or two, and more than that, get to claim participation in a "green" racing series.

"Here at Hyundai, we pursue the very pinnacle of clean automotive technology, and prove our commitment-and our product--in the crucible of racing. Our Formula E car is 100 percent electric--100 percent emissions free. Hyundai--racing towards the future."

They (if they even had a team) could lose every race--very few people who saw the ad would know or care. The green, and competition-tested, and the zero emissions .... those are the selling points.

Any manufacturer buys a whole load of greenwashing points just for sticking its name on the side of the car.

Costs are low, which is why it really works. I don't see the manufacturers trying to blow FE into a "standard" international series ... because those have failed so often.

As Broadrun says ... FE is Not aimed at "race fans." Race fans are an economic dead-end for manufacturers. FE is aimed at people who want to hang out at an Event in the downtown area (filled with other distractions) on one day of a weekend, and not a twelve- or even six hour event at some track out in the sticks. FE is actually aimed at much larger and growing segment of the population--normal people who grew up with multiple data streams, constant connectivity, a cellphone or tablet on and in action during every waking hour.

FE has no desire to make the same mistake Every other series has made: turning into spending wars, technological competitions which eventually drive everyone out of the series.

Traditional race fans want that competition---but the new breed of potential fan simply doesn't care. They want the Immediate Experience. They don't want to know about the politics, the engineering .... they are most likely to buy a new car based on what their friends like, and how much connectivity and how many driver aids it includes. "Performance" isn't even in their vocabulary.

But hey, this is the FIA. They could screw up a nail.