How would you change NASCAR?

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Not true. NASCAR peaked in 2005/6(depending on who you ask), and the drop in viewership/attendance didn't begin in earnest until 2008.

Not true? Whatever. If you want to split hairs about a "plateau" of years, go right ahead, but don't try to spin the Chase being so small. THAT is not true aa it's the absolute basis of the decline.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Not true? Whatever. If you want to split hairs about a "plateau" of years, go right ahead, but don't try to spin the Chase being so small. THAT is not true aa it's the absolute basis of the decline.

No it is not. The Chase has little, if anything, to do with the decline. Complaints about the Chase were incredibly uncommon until Jimmie Johnson's run of five championships was nearing it's end, when a lot of fans did the math and discovered he'd have won only one of those five had the Chase format not existed. By the time complaints about the Chase were anything notable, the decline was already well udnerway.

Complaints about the Chase are almost entirely trying to use it as a scapegoat for NASCAR's numerous other problems.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

No it is not. The Chase has little, if anything, to do with the decline. Complaints about the Chase were incredibly uncommon until Jimmie Johnson's run of five championships was nearing it's end, when a lot of fans did the math and discovered he'd have won only one of those five had the Chase format not existed. By the time complaints about the Chase were anything notable, the decline was already well udnerway.

Not sure where you were but amongst all the fans I knew and talked too, the reaction was an immediate disdain at the mere announcement of moving to a "playoff system". The only people that liked it were the NASCAR brass and media that was forced to pump it up. Out of the gate, no one cared for it

Complaints about the Chase are almost entirely trying to use it as a scapegoat for NASCAR's numerous other problems.

BS. Pure BS. There's certainly many other problems as mentioned by everyone here but also mentioned by everyone else as a desired change is the Chase, but you know more than we do, obviously.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Not sure where you were but amongst all the fans I knew and talked too, the reaction was an immediate disdain at the mere announcement of moving to a "playoff system". The only people that liked it were the NASCAR brass and media that was forced to pump it up. Out of the gate, no one cared for it

Almost nobody in my direct circle of associates had any issue with it, but most of them didn't care about NASCAR to begin with, so not exactly a good point of comparison.

The thing is, I make it a point to look BEYOND the people in my immediate area anyway. Listening only to those you talk to regularly is effectively an echo chamber as people around you tend to share identical viewpoints. In short, never consider those around you to be an accurate measure of anything.

Unlike stage racing, the Chase was rather well-received when it debuted, with most either giving ti a thumbs up or a "wait for a few seasons and see how things develop" approach.

BS. Pure BS. There's certainly many other problems as mentioned by everyone here but also mentioned by everyone else as a desired change is the Chase, but you know more than we do, obviously.

Not BS at all. The thing is, those of us talking here do NOT represent the majority of the viewership, not even once you take the rapid decline into account. We are but a few, and while a large chunk of this few may dislike the Chase itself,

Outside of this site, the bulk of the complaints I've seen about the Chase that have developed over the years don't even center on the Chase itself, but on how much they tried to gimmick it up and change things to get NASCAR's precious popular drivers into it with some level of consistency, which was often viewed as effectively destroying what the Chase was.

Basically, they're not upset at the CHASE, they're upset at NASCAR's fondness for gimmickry. But they all too often bottle that up into complaining about the Chase itself like it was the only gimmickry they engaged in - thus using the Chase as a scapegoat for what they ACTUALLY have an issue with.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Almost nobody in my direct circle of associates had any issue with it, but most of them didn't care about NASCAR to begin with, so not exactly a good point of comparison.

The thing is, I make it a point to look BEYOND the people in my immediate area anyway. Listening only to those you talk to regularly is effectively an echo chamber as people around you tend to share identical viewpoints. In short, never consider those around you to be an accurate measure of anything.

Umm, yeah I have and always talk and see things "outside my circle" so go ahead and give the underhanded insult that I'm ignorant a rest and save speeches for another day, please.

The point was, in case you missed it, is I live in the traditional stockcar country. The majority of lifelong fans aired their displeasure immediately in my circle and in this region, which at the time was the majority of fans, like it or not. Shortly after, again, to a multitude of issues, including the Chase, started leaving.

Unlike stage racing, the Chase was rather well-received when it debuted, with most either giving ti a thumbs up or a "wait for a few seasons and see how things develop" approach.

Well received? Wrong. Not repeating my previous comments made outside my "little circle", but a small minority was in favor. Stages? An additional gimmick added to the other gimmicks. IE Chase. Get it? Probably not.

Not BS at all. The thing is, those of us talking here do NOT represent the majority of the viewership, not even once you take the rapid decline into account. We are but a few, and while a large chunk of this few may dislike the Chase itself,

Outside of this site, the bulk of the complaints I've seen about the Chase that have developed over the years don't even center on the Chase itself, but on how much they tried to gimmick it up and change things to get NASCAR's precious popular drivers into it with some level of consistency, which was often viewed as effectively destroying what the Chase was.

Basically, they're not upset at the CHASE, they're upset at NASCAR's fondness for gimmickry. But they all too often bottle that up into complaining about the Chase itself like it was the only gimmickry they engaged in - thus using the Chase as a scapegoat for what they ACTUALLY have an issue with.

Spin it however you please. Still BS to say the Chase is not an issue at all and to call it a scapegoat. It's a part of the many problems. I'm not saying it's the main issue, but it is an issue, which you completely dance around admitting.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Umm, yeah I have and always talk and see things "outside my circle" so go ahead and give the underhanded insult that I'm ignorant a rest and save speeches for another day, please.

The point was, in case you missed it, is I live in the traditional stockcar country. The majority of lifelong fans aired their displeasure immediately in my circle and in this region, which at the time was the majority of fans, like it or not. Shortly after, again, to a multitude of issues, including the Chase, started leaving.


Well received? Wrong. Not repeating my previous comments made outside my "little circle", but a small minority was in favor. Stages? An additional gimmick added to the other gimmicks. IE Chase. Get it? Probably not.



Spin it however you please. Still BS to say the Chase is not an issue at all and to call it a scapegoat. It's a part of the many problems. I'm not saying it's the main issue, but it is an issue, which you completely dance around admitting.

If you honestly think the Chase was widely hated from the start, you weren't looking that far past your circle. There's no spin here at all - the Chase is being used as a scapegoat for the numerous smaller things that are what actually bother most people.

[FormulaFox]

Getting back to the intended topic of this thread -what each of us would actually change rather than what people by and large consider to be a problem- this is what a Cup Series Camaro SHOULD look like:



Maybe with more of a widebody to make it look more racey, but far more along these lines than the current Cup cars.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

If you honestly think the Chase was widely hated from the start, you weren't looking that far past your circle. There's no spin here at all - the Chase is being used as a scapegoat for the numerous smaller things that are what actually bother most people.

So thankful to have such open minded people in the forum that can paint others into the corners they belong!

And the other gimmicks you quoted came well after your previously decline years so your timeline is all jacked up. You are using stages, introduced 2 years ago as a scapegoat for a decline in 2008. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but Dr. Who can't figure that one out.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

If you honestly think the Chase was widely hated from the start, you weren't looking that far past your circle. There's no spin here at all - the Chase is being used as a scapegoat for the numerous smaller things that are what actually bother most people.

Wow, you are absolutely incredibly so far out of touch with reality there it's insane. EVERY major outlet who could trashed the Chase the second it was announced, it lead DIRECTLY to decreased ticket sales the next season, attendance was up but at that point NASCAR was giving away almost 40 percent of the tickets at most tracks. Most everyone I knew in Virginia never once bought a ticket for Bristol or Martinsville, show up and you'd find a way in for free or maybe 10 bucks after 2007. And no, these were not all friends, it was people at a major college and people I knew of through other people including 25 guys who are involved in NASCAR and teams now. The Chase cost NASCAR its major fan base, and dropping Winston well that cost most every diehard watch every race, run a pool and follow it daily in the paper fan I knew in the hills. Those diehard fans I worked with stopped watching Bristol and Martinsville after the Chase, pretty much became a Daytona and we're done fans.

Pretending the Chase is a non influence shows you're way off the pulse. Or so pig headed you can't admit your stance may have been ill informed but I found with 15 min of searching over 200 articles in the archives of major racing publications talking about the Chase being the end of NASCAR written in period. Google is your friend and easy to use

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