[BTCC] BTCC 2020 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[mattsmith]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I don't know of any hybrid road cars with proper manual boxes, they are all full or partial autos. Cue someone about to educate us otherwise...

The original civic ima came with a manual.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Is there a danger of oversimplyfying this? Surely a hybrid system would require a new gearbox and where would the batteries be stored in current cars? Not the work of morning and maybe not the £20k per car suggested?

It depends on what form the hybrid takes. They could just simply replace the alternator with an electric motor which provides more torque. The battery, which is recharged by braking, slowing down, is relatively small and would take up very little room sitting on the floor next to the driver.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Is there a danger of oversimplyfying this? Surely a hybrid system would require a new gearbox and where would the batteries be stored in current cars? Not the work of morning and maybe not the £20k per car suggested?

That is precisely why they invited tenders from potential suppliers.

The tender must be for a system that is added to the existing drivetrain, and incorporates a reserve of power to be deployed.
The delivery will likely be made to the gearboxes - which are all common components - so expect the winning supplier to work alongside Xtrac to ensure any modifications fit within the existing gearbox parameters, meaning no disruption to the current car manufacturers.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by RS67

It depends on what form the hybrid takes. They could just simply replace the alternator with an electric motor which provides more torque. The battery, which is recharged by braking, slowing down, is relatively small and would take up very little room sitting on the floor next to the driver.

There is no requirement in the invitation to tender for any regeneration whilst the car is running. The design is to include a fixed reserve of energy, that is depleted during the race at the driver's discretion.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by RS67

It depends on what form the hybrid takes. They could just simply replace the alternator with an electric motor which provides more torque. The battery, which is recharged by braking, slowing down, is relatively small and would take up very little room sitting on the floor next to the driver.

That will fix the CoG row...

[S griffin]

Good that TOCA are staying till 2026, if it ain't broke as they say

[crmalcolm]

Can we start a list now - with the Laser Tools Infiniti Q50 as the first confirmed entry?

Originally Posted by BertMk2

They must be convinced the car is an improvement on the Mercedes (or at least - has the potential to be an improvement on the Mercedes).

If it does show a significant improvement over the A-Class, what chance other teams switch to RWD in 2020?

HMS Racing to return with a Giulia?
Xceler8 with a Jag XE?
Ciceley with a C-Class?

And the inevitable Kia rumours with a Stinger?

Wild card with someone running a RR Velar?

[Craner Curves]

Ciceley should run the CLA?

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

HMS Racing to return with a Giulia?

You know this has been on my mind for a while now, I think HMS used the wrong car and they know it, considering Rob Austin is a so called RWD specialist (in fact the godfather of NGTC spec RWD to many) and Alfa produce RWD cars I always felt it a strange move to have gone to an FWD model.

My feel is that the car they have is fundamentally flawed and thats the reason they have skipped the year (and why they havent tried to test it within something like TCT), but I do however really doubt HMS have the budget to take a chance building yet another new car.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

, but I do however really doubt HMS have the budget to take a chance building yet another new car.

so couldn't they do like Team Parker and buy a used 125 ? Jelley has some realy good results when he doesn't have bad luck

[antnee]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Ciceley should run the CLA?

CLA is also FWD, its an A-Class in a prettier frock. Although it could have an aero advantage over the hatchback?

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

You know this has been on my mind for a while now, I think HMS used the wrong car and they know it, considering Rob Austin is a so called RWD specialist (in fact the godfather of NGTC spec RWD to many) and Alfa produce RWD cars I always felt it a strange move to have gone to an FWD model.

My feel is that the car they have is fundamentally flawed and thats the reason they have skipped the year (and why they havent tried to test it within something like TCT), but I do however really doubt HMS have the budget to take a chance building yet another new car.

I don't know, he did alright with the Handy Toyota before, which was FWD. Although I guess he would go best in RWD considering his background

[ChrisMarks]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Xceler8 with a Jag XE?

Maybe a Mini?

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by antnee

CLA is also FWD, its an A-Class in a prettier frock. Although it could have an aero advantage over the hatchback?

I was thinking of the aero as you say.

[Alfisti]

Moffats Infiniti looks cool. On coolness alone he deserves to do well!

Rob Austin called the Giulia out as being no use because he felt the wheelbase was too long - it was considered, ruled out and the Giulietta became the default as a deal to run an Alfa had been shook on. So unless Rob is convinced otherwise I'd say forget the Giulia. Don't rule the unannounced low riding version of the small SUV out of the equation though. That's if Handy returning is a thing. I think they're done.

As for Excelr8 expect a Mini Clubman in time for the hybrid package. Will help BMW promote electric minis nicely ��

[S griffin]

There must be something to Austin running the Alfa during the mid season test. I expect an announcement before 2019 is out

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by S griffin

There must be something to Austin running the Alfa during the mid season test. I expect an announcement before 2019 is out

I suspect that 'something' may be mostly a way of reminding potential sponsors that he is still out there.

[btccbloke]

I do wonder if they will get given a guest entry for the second half of the year, (if they are serious) to get some running in same as the Moffats are doing. If not, i think its game over for them

[S griffin]

I’m sure Gow would let them have a guest entry if Gow was happy for them to. After all the driver, the car and the team are proven in the series

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Rob Austin called the Giulia out as being no use because he felt the wheelbase was too long - it was considered, ruled out and the Giulietta became the default as a deal to run an Alfa had been shook on. So unless Rob is convinced otherwise I'd say forget the Giulia. Don't rule the unannounced low riding version of the small SUV out of the equation though. That's if Handy returning is a thing. I think they're done.

The Giulia is shorter than the 3 series, and Austin has also said that RWD is better than FWD.

Every driver will tell you why their car is better than the alternative. Remember that WSR once claimed the 1 series to be a better option than the 3 series because of wheelbase.

[crmalcolm]

Dick Bennetts said, "We chose the new 1-Series as we felt it was more suitable to the current BTCC regulations. The wheelbase is quite a lot shorter than the new 3-Series car, so it should perform well on the tight twisty circuits that we race on in the UK.

[btccbloke]

WSR are using the 3 series because the new 1 series is FWD, BMW are not paying all this money to market a car they no longer sell.
I doubt the length has anything to do with the reason they switched

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

WSR are using the 3 series because the new 1 series is FWD, BMW are not paying all this money to market a car they no longer sell.
I doubt the length has anything to do with the reason they switched

My point was that you can always take what drivers and teams tell you about why they choose a certain car with a certain level of cynicism.

HMS Racing entered a short FWD Alfa, because the RWD option is too long.
WSR entered an even longer RWD, because the shorter option is FWD.

The two choices are diametrically opposed.

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

My point was that you can always take what drivers and teams tell you about why they choose a certain car with a certain level of cynicism.

HMS Racing entered a short FWD Alfa, because the RWD option is too long.
WSR entered an even longer RWD, because the shorter option is FWD.

The two choices are diametrically opposed.

But as a works team you essentially run what the manufacturer wants you to run. HMS had the choice

[Alfisti]

HMS did indeed have the choice as the sponsorship was from Alfa dealers, who at the time had Giulia and Giuliettas to flog. And unless I'm mixing things up again the Giulia wheelbase is longer than the #HARD VWs. Never mind the BMW 3 series...