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6 Apr 2020, 09:39 (Ref:3968869) | #1 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
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Zak Brown and Changes to F1
Thought this deserved its own thread.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52175140 Basically he's saying that the whole thing is too expensive and there are possibly four teams who may leave the grid. Personally, this reflects my view and one I've held for many years. The whole thing is over complicated and thus too costly to be sustainable. |
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6 Apr 2020, 09:45 (Ref:3968871) | #2 | |||
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6 Apr 2020, 10:19 (Ref:3968884) | #3 | |
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i think it represents everybody's view to be honest. who's going to say it's brilliant that there's 500 people in a f1 team and it costs so much to produce a car that only lasts a year?
my worry has always been how they go about reducing staff numbers without mass redundancies. |
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6 Apr 2020, 10:55 (Ref:3968887) | #4 | ||
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On the news feeds this morning Ron Dennis got coverage for the fantastic programme he is fronting to feed NHS workers. He was asked what he thought about Premiership teams furloughing staff - or in other words paying them with taxpayers money. He swerved the question quite rightly. However it’s not just well funded Football teams despite what the press may portray. Indeed McLaren under Zak Brown have sent 850 home . ...... Money that 1000’s of self employed in Motorsport and other industries are not eligible for.... its not just the Teams that may disappear but the entire bedrock of the sport who will go on to other - maybe more stable work in the future without a backward glance ....
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6 Apr 2020, 11:18 (Ref:3968891) | #5 | |
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It’s probably no surprise Sainz and Norris both agreed to cut their wages
Zak has a point, costs almost certainly need to be cut, particularly at this time. It’s bad enough we only have 10 teams, we can’t afford to lose more. Think how much they spend on the front wing alone. If we can have sensible stable rules at lower costs than they are it will be more sustainable for the teams and also can have the bonus of the competition between teams closer than it is now, so we can see more teams getting a look in. Might even encourage a few more teams to join |
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6 Apr 2020, 12:07 (Ref:3968900) | #6 | |||
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6 Apr 2020, 12:19 (Ref:3968901) | #7 | ||
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Hold the front page - "teams cannot agree" . They cannot even agree on what time of the day it is , hardly ever could , and certainly will not in the future. The fact that teams have so much leverage in deciding the rules of the 'sport' is undermined by the fact that any one of the big hitters can walk away , at any time, without a backward glance and with zero consequences apart from a big redundancy bill . The list is a long one, and includes Mercedes , Honda , Toyota , Renault , Alfa Romeo, Jaguar , Aston Martin, Maserati and Porsche ; and that is before we get on to engine suppliers ..
But when Mercedes went walkabout in 1955 , it had enjoyed no real influence on the rules . But we need now, more than ever before , to have a strong governing body which sets the rules , and , if you don't like 'em, because they favour team A more than B , then tough. The absurd levels of self importance in F1 ,the tunnel vision , the delusion that F1 is not part of a wider sport , but a sport in its own right , and the budgets which looked crass in 2019 , but obscene now , need to be consigned to history. |
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6 Apr 2020, 12:44 (Ref:3968902) | #8 | |
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Just a shame we have to wait till 2022 now to see what effect the new cars and regulations will have
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6 Apr 2020, 13:05 (Ref:3968905) | #9 | ||
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Not entirely certain why anyone would think that the new rules will solve the problem. What is needed is a root and branch rethink. Which I think is what Zak is trying to say.
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6 Apr 2020, 13:07 (Ref:3968906) | #10 | |||||
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It is all about the disparity between those up on Mount Olympus and the mere mortal smaller teams. Its not a level playing field and the current two tier setup is not healthy (given current discussion). This pandemic may be the trigger to resolve (or try to resolve) that long standing issue. And to be honest it was always going to be either one of the tiers having a real crisis (such as disappearing from the sport) to trigger change. The sport will cling to the status quo as long as it can. Even potentially right up to the point of collapse. Quote:
(Small edit: Even if there is room for zero development, then well funded teams can make themselves "better run" in ways that smaller teams would struggle. So this should be seen in even spec series in which those with cash are able to get 100% out of the car while those with significantly less budget will struggle to do well with the same car. It's about shrinking the gap down) Richard |
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6 Apr 2020, 13:07 (Ref:3968907) | #11 | |
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It has been too expensive since probably the early nineties really. The expenses have only scaled up since and are no longer augmented with those iconic sponsor packages. Meanwhile nobody is really watching, regardless of the entertainment (which isn’t too bad imo). It is a truly excellent set of circumstances.
As bella says, sharp cost cuts come with mass redundancies. But the other path sees entire teams collapsing, which is even worse. Perhaps corona virus will ensure everyone has to pull out anyways. Does that offer the chance to start with a totally clean sheet or does everyone just bugger off to other series and we quietly bury this F1 lark? Summary: dunno lol |
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6 Apr 2020, 13:30 (Ref:3968910) | #12 | ||
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6 Apr 2020, 14:03 (Ref:3968913) | #13 | ||
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Every generation of car has their own expensive bits, and people complain about them every time. |
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6 Apr 2020, 14:08 (Ref:3968915) | #14 | ||
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I think as well as changing the technical regulations to make the racing more exciting, they are also trying to get costs down. I think there has been talk of a budget cap, but of course the big fear is whether any cost cutting goes far enough I do though wish the cars had none of those extra aero bits and looked simple like that 92 McLaren on the front cover of Motorsport |
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6 Apr 2020, 14:10 (Ref:3968917) | #15 | ||
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For the car's debut in Brazil they shipped three of them, along with three of the previous generation car which they had used in the previous round at Mexico City. Imagine the costs if you could still do that today! |
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6 Apr 2020, 14:13 (Ref:3968919) | #16 | |
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6 Apr 2020, 14:17 (Ref:3968921) | #17 | ||
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I was thinking of the car's aero, which for the last few years, has been the bane of F1 rather than any developments with the transmission and the throttle.
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6 Apr 2020, 14:20 (Ref:3968924) | #18 | |
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We always get stuck in a cycle with aero. They cut it back and people complain the cars are too slow!
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6 Apr 2020, 14:20 (Ref:3968925) | #19 | ||
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I agree with Richard, you cannot use tech regs to try and get budget equality, you could make F1 a soap box and 4 pram wheels and a works team would use an unobtanium super grease at £1m per squirt, per wheel that made the wheels turn faster.... |
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6 Apr 2020, 14:49 (Ref:3968929) | #20 | |||
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How about Homologate 3 front wings (5 element) , 3 rear wings ( 4 element) per season , steel suspension wishbones, spec wheel, in addition to the engine and gearbox restrictions as now? £100,000 per wing and and new design every weekend - do me a favour... |
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6 Apr 2020, 14:50 (Ref:3968931) | #21 | |
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Of course, the big budget teams will always spend where they can, but the important thing is that their spending doesn’t put other teams out if business. That wouldn’t be right
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6 Apr 2020, 15:06 (Ref:3968934) | #22 | |||
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all things being equal, it sounds reasonable to say that less complexity, simpler rules, more standardized parts etc would lead to lower costs. but in reality, since the 90s (dawn of the manufacturers' era) costs have consistently gone up well past what one would expect through inflation and with arguably the the greatest budget increases happening over the past several years just as controlling cost through technical regulations and increased standardization became the norm. the big teams just found other areas to spend in and imo they probably found more success/gains by overspending in those areas so naturally they spent more in those areas. from this point of view, it seems to me that less technical freedom, more standardization, and rules banning this and that is directly correlated with increased spending. for me, chasing reduced spending parity through the technical regs has not worked at all. |
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6 Apr 2020, 15:07 (Ref:3968935) | #23 | |||
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Whilst it is true, you are unlikely to see multi-element wings and barge boards on a standard road car, I can see carbon suspension (or a variant of) being a possible when it comes to weight saving. The drive-by-wire throttle and semi-auto boxes are developments of the previous technology used in F1 - but I don't see them as direct descendants of. I feel it is more a case of the knowledge gained from developing those technologies for use on a F1 car has been used to develop road-relevant applications. When it comes to aero on a road car - whilst the solution may appear different it is still an application of the same knowledge and technology - particularly as the road car market strives for efficiency. An article here discussed in detail the application of aero knowledge in commercial vehicles for instance. Road cars are already sporting lots of innovative aero 'solutions' too - that may have developed from F1 knowledge banks: A-Class Saloon - enclosed underbody to avoid disrupting the airflow, headlights seal flush with the bodywork. CLA BlueEfficiency - specially designed exhaust silencer and rear spoiler. 5 Series EfficientDynamics - active shutters for the kidney grille. Audi A4 2.0 TDI Ultra - developed from LMP designs. Model S - work was put into ensuring air flowed smoothly around the front wheels. Ioniq - a multitude of deliberate contours and creases. Numerous models are employing air curtains to manage the air over/around the car, and wheel design is as much led by aerodynamics as style on a lot of cars. |
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6 Apr 2020, 15:08 (Ref:3968936) | #24 | |||
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Whatever is done to the rules - however 'simple' they are - certain teams will spend an extortionate amount of money to extract the tiniest of marginal gains. |
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6 Apr 2020, 15:18 (Ref:3968940) | #25 | ||
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