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Old 1 Jun 2020, 11:29 (Ref:3979603)   #6126
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Originally Posted by touringlegend View Post
How much further can it be pushed back..
There is one possible solution, but I don't see it happening. I don't know what is happening with F2, Porsche SuperCup, etc but I suspect there isn't going to be a full support package for both GPs. Could BTCC run at one of those events? Means running on the full GP layout, and means that the usual TOCA supports miss out, so not ideal but could be a better option than risking a meeting elsewhere being cancelled at the last minute due to lack of marshals.

Inevitably, arguments over media rights would scupper the idea from the start, but these are extraordinary times and maybe extraordinary measures are needed.
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Old 1 Jun 2020, 11:35 (Ref:3979605)   #6127
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Originally Posted by CarfanLUFC View Post
Go full electric. Apart from the range is only for 5 laps and they require 6 hours of charging between races. And there is only 10 charging points for 30 cars.

Welcome to the future of motoring everyone
Is that how FE works?
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Old 1 Jun 2020, 11:52 (Ref:3979608)   #6128
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Is that how FE works?
Formula E is incredibly slow. Racing on track sizes more suited to karting helps hide this for the most part.
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Old 1 Jun 2020, 12:14 (Ref:3979610)   #6129
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Formula E is incredibly slow. Racing on track sizes more suited to karting helps hide this for the most part.
That may be true - but they get a bit more than 5 laps, which is what was suggested would happen if BTCC went full-electric.

Althouhg I wouldn't describe 0-60mph in under 3 seconds, and top speed of >170mph as 'incredibly slow'.
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Old 1 Jun 2020, 12:34 (Ref:3979612)   #6130
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
That may be true - but they get a bit more than 5 laps, which is what was suggested would happen if BTCC went full-electric.

Althouhg I wouldn't describe 0-60mph in under 3 seconds, and top speed of >170mph as 'incredibly slow'.

No-one denies that the initial acceleration of an electric engine is very good, it's just after that it is somewhat lacking.

They are still slower than Formula 3 cars around standard circuits, which for standard of an international championship is, to me, "incredibly slow".
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Old 1 Jun 2020, 13:37 (Ref:3979623)   #6131
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No-one denies that the initial acceleration of an electric engine is very good, it's just after that it is somewhat lacking.

They are still slower than Formula 3 cars around standard circuits, which for standard of an international championship is, to me, "incredibly slow".
I know we are a few years off for BTCC - but how do the lap times compare between FE and BTCC?

Or more specifically, if an NGTC car and an FE car lined up at a circuit, which would come out on top?
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Old 1 Jun 2020, 14:20 (Ref:3979631)   #6132
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Perhaps start a new EV BTCC thread if this continues as I fear it will destroy the BTCC 2020 topic.

Also there is a general EV thread here: https://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154979
Join in or just use it as a useful resource to copy and paste all the old points from.
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Old 1 Jun 2020, 14:54 (Ref:3979638)   #6133
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
I know we are a few years off for BTCC - but how do the lap times compare between FE and BTCC?

Or more specifically, if an NGTC car and an FE car lined up at a circuit, which would come out on top?
It depends on the circuit, doesn't it? For an apples & apples comparison you'd need to run both cars on racing slicks and on road tyres too to see which one works best, as they run on completely different tyre formats.

Warning, what follows is a rant and does not necessarily represent the opinions of Ten-Tenths.
(To be honest, it probably doesn't even represent the opinions of the poster when they aren't ranting.)


I suppose I should say here that I quite like Formula E and I have done from the outset. They're not trying to be F1, F2, F3, prototypes, GT or the BTCC; they had a plan for car/series development that they've stuck to, they've pushed large, high-capacity high-drain high-charge rate battery technology way faster than if they hadn't been developing it (mostly Williams' work, actually). The racing is and always has been close and feisty. The bits I don't like are the corporate tie-ins and the "fan involvement" - Fan Boost being the nadir of it all, really.

The way every single conversation everywhere about alternative drivetrains for racing end up with people slapping down Formula E because it *isn't* something is quite tedious, and if I'm honest I think it reflects more on the people doing the slapping than it does on the series.

For a comparator, I don't really like rallying very much but I don't find it necessary to moan about it when people talk about it. For another, I have more than a passing interest in NASCAR but I don't spend paragraphs trying to shoehorn it into discussions about GT racing!

We now return you to our normal ramblings.


It's all a bit apples and pears really, isn't it?
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Old 1 Jun 2020, 15:24 (Ref:3979641)   #6134
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Brands has switched layouts. The GP track will now be used in August and the Indy in November.

No option tyre at events either. Medium compound all tracks except http://www.btcc.net/2020/06/01/layou...e-regulations/
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Old 1 Jun 2020, 15:27 (Ref:3979645)   #6135
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Originally Posted by CarfanLUFC View Post
Go full electric. Apart from the range is only for 5 laps and they require 6 hours of charging between races. And there is only 10 charging points for 30 cars.

Welcome to the future of motoring everyone
Long extension leads so the car is always plugged in.... from my observation only Tesla has a viable product, and for now they're beyond the financial reach of the average man in the street.

Everybody else's crap has next to no range. I personally know an elderly lady whose eight year old Nissan Leaf can barely do a 25 mile journey now. As it's 22 miles to town and back for her, it's not going to be long for the world.
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Old 1 Jun 2020, 19:26 (Ref:3979691)   #6136
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Everybody else's crap has next to no range.
The Jaguar iPace has a range of 292 miles
The VW iD.3 has a range of 260 miles for the base model (there will be a version that does over 300 miles but that's not available in the UK until later in the year)
The Ford Mustang also has a range of 260 miles for the base model, or 370 miles if you upgrade the battery.

So all three are good enough to take Dominic Cummings to Durham without stopping.
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Old 1 Jun 2020, 19:28 (Ref:3979693)   #6137
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52872157
Govt have given the go ahead to two British GPs in early August, which means clashing with 2 BTCC rounds. I think we have already spoken on this thread about the difficulties in getting enough marshals to run multiple big events on the same weekend. Could TOCA's announcement be a revised calendar.
Turns out it was, but only to swap the GP and Indy layouts around at Brands Hatch.
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Old 1 Jun 2020, 22:54 (Ref:3979707)   #6138
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I wonder if Speedworks have acquired a particular Italian Hatch to go testing hybrid systems with? It was available and turnkey with little extra value than its parts so with hybridised as-is or gut to make their old Avensis a runner once again?
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Old 2 Jun 2020, 08:36 (Ref:3979736)   #6139
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I wonder if Speedworks have acquired a particular Italian Hatch to go testing hybrid systems with? It was available and turnkey with little extra value than its parts so with hybridised as-is or gut to make their old Avensis a runner once again?
Avensis makes perfect sense. Tried and trusted.
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Old 2 Jun 2020, 09:27 (Ref:3979742)   #6140
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Formula E is incredibly slow. Racing on track sizes more suited to karting helps hide this for the most part.
0-62 in 2.8 secs and 174mph top speed. BTCC cars would love to be that quick.
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Old 2 Jun 2020, 09:28 (Ref:3979743)   #6141
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The 2 British GPs are now confirmed for the first two weeks in August. Clashing with Donington and Brands.
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Old 2 Jun 2020, 09:32 (Ref:3979744)   #6142
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I wonder if Speedworks have acquired a particular Italian Hatch to go testing hybrid systems with? It was available and turnkey with little extra value than its parts so with hybridised as-is or gut to make their old Avensis a runner once again?
I guess there are a number of factors to consider.

If the internals need to be stripped back extensively to fit the hybrid components, why pull apart a complete car?
If the hybrid system is to be tested alongside a non-hybrid equivalent, then a car of which only one was built is not suitable.

I'm personally not seeing the logic of taking on another chassis when they already have a chassis that they have extensive knowledge of, and other examples exist that they could acquire if more spares or comparison is needed (including one with HMS).
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Old 2 Jun 2020, 09:49 (Ref:3979752)   #6143
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Maybe they prefer concentrating on developing their car for the season ahead. No use testing something now when they need to focus on the current car more than ever. I don't think Speedworks see the hybrid as a top priority at the moment
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Old 2 Jun 2020, 10:19 (Ref:3979766)   #6144
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Not sure why anyone would think anyone would invest money in an old chassis just to develop a hybrid system. Any old test hack would do pretty much as long as it can go round and round cheaply within a few secs of the pace.
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Old 2 Jun 2020, 11:08 (Ref:3979783)   #6145
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Brands has switched layouts. The GP track will now be used in August and the Indy in November.

No option tyre at events either. Medium compound all tracks except http://www.btcc.net/2020/06/01/layou...e-regulations/
Think GP certainly works better as the season finale but fair enough in these circumstances.

Very pleased about the removal of the option tyre, really think it will be an improvement that way.
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Old 2 Jun 2020, 11:41 (Ref:3979789)   #6146
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
Maybe they prefer concentrating on developing their car for the season ahead. No use testing something now when they need to focus on the current car more than ever. I don't think Speedworks see the hybrid as a top priority at the moment
But they've been assigned the testing duties.
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Old 2 Jun 2020, 11:50 (Ref:3979794)   #6147
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https://www.touringcartimes.com/2020...sting-partner/

Christian Dick: “I am excited and proud that we have secured the development car contract."

I'm not sure 'any old test hack' would go down well with Cosworth/Gow?
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Old 2 Jun 2020, 13:21 (Ref:3979828)   #6148
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I'm not sure 'any old test hack' would go down well with Cosworth/Gow?
Probably not. But with the Avenisis sitting there doing nothing they've got their test car - so no bother
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Old 2 Jun 2020, 13:24 (Ref:3979830)   #6149
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With everything that has been going on, it’s probably best this project is paused while everyone sorts themselves out. Maybe the project will be tested at the end of the season or the start of next season, who knows? Getting through this season is more important
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Old 2 Jun 2020, 13:26 (Ref:3979831)   #6150
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Probably not. But with the Avenisis sitting there doing nothing they've got their test car - so no bother
LOL, the Avensis would be exactly that. It doesn’t mean it’s shoddy, just that none of TOCA, team or Cosworth etc. are going to be wanting to spend more than necessary to do the job.

The more they spend on development, the more they’ll have to recover in ongoing costs.
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