[BTCC] Brands Hatch Rd4/5/6

[bella]

Originally Posted by Pickles

After quali when Butcher's car was being weighed etc Harvey made a comment about how much camber the Motorbase cars were running compared to others...

makes sense, it's the clio cup at thruxton problem then. although i think the f1 "tyres are bad" brigade would come running in here and say it's goodyear's fault for not telling them to run less camber...

[RS67]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Thanks, my memory isn't the best. So it was Mr Brown at the rear - so maybe that was the result of his car and that of AN Other getting a little too intimate. Matt Bump Neale started at the back, so had an opportunity to rub the VW....

So the front "fails"(Jake being Matted isn't a fail) were all Motorbase - which suggests they pushed too far. Andy Neate was that little bit slower, so maybe the tyres on his car weren't worked quite so hard.

Neate wasn't carrying ballast. The failures seemed to coincide with heavier ballast. After Rory's R1 puncture it was reported that Goodyear/Motorbase were examining the tyre, later in the day Motorbase announced they felt it was due to a stone or other debris. Ollie has a completely different driving style to Rory and requires the car to be set up differently, so would two different set ups result in punctures?

[RS67]

Originally Posted by Pickles

After quali when Butcher's car was being weighed etc Harvey made a comment about how much camber the Motorbase cars were running compared to others...

I could have sworn he said it wasn't running as much camber like he expected. I was watching on my phone, so only a tiny screen, but I couldn't see much camber.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by RS67

I could have sworn he said it wasn't running as much camber like he expected. I was watching on my phone, so only a tiny screen, but I couldn't see much camber.

I was watching on a slightly bigger (laptop) screen, but thought it was a silly comment for Tim to make. The view of the car was from above and he said (something like) "look at the camber on the rear of the Motorbase Focus, see how much of a gap there is between the outside of the tyre and the ground". From the camera view, you just could not see that!

[bella]

Originally Posted by RS67

Neate wasn't carrying ballast. The failures seemed to coincide with heavier ballast. After Rory's R1 puncture it was reported that Goodyear/Motorbase were examining the tyre, later in the day Motorbase announced they felt it was due to a stone or other debris. Ollie has a completely different driving style to Rory and requires the car to be set up differently, so would two different set ups result in punctures?

very rare to get that many debris punctures in a single weekend, especially in one series, in one team.

and it’d be equally as rare for a team to admit in public it’s because they’ve had to do something relatively extreme with setup. remember that changing a tiny suspension component will change wear patterns on the tyre.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by RS67

After Rory's R1 puncture it was reported that Goodyear/Motorbase were examining the tyre, later in the day Motorbase announced they felt it was due to a stone or other debris.

Do you have a link to where Motorbase made that announcement?

Butcher and Jackson both commented that it was part of the learning process with the new car - suggesting they had gone a bit too far with setup.

[bella]

it was mentioned on itv's live coverage, so probably not.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Do you have a link to where Motorbase made that announcement?

Butcher and Jackson both commented that it was part of the learning process with the new car - suggesting they had gone a bit too far with setup.

Tim mentioned the investigation and Motorbase's belief in Sundays commentary.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by RS67

Tim mentioned the investigation and Motorbase's belief in Sundays commentary.

Was that after the first race, or later in the day?

[AnnoyedMoose]

Motorbase have posted a "mechanics eye" video on their Youtube channel from Brands. What interests me is the parts of the car they've blurred out. Not sure what bits are in those locations but all I can think is it's about where the inboard shocks/springs are.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Was that after the first race, or later in the day?

Fairly sure the investigation was mentioned between races 1 and 2 and the stone damage was mentioned prior to race 3.

[BertMk2]

I've not seen the coverage from Brands yet (still haven't finished watching the previous rounds!) but presumably they were front left punctures? Stones have been mentioned before at Brands for causing puctures - particularly if cars run across the back of the kerb at Graham Hill, it'd be interesting to see the line Butcher and Jackson took through there. Maybe a combination of setup (camber angle exposing the sidewall more than other cars?) and cutting the corner contributed to the problem. The other corner where people take liberties with the kerbing (again the front left would take the punishment) would be Stirlings - but usually they stick a big tyre bale there to stop that sort of thing - having not seen the coverage I don't know whether that was the case this time.

[S griffin]

It seems no one is blaming the heat for the punctures, so that’s one thing that doesn’t seem to be it

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

I've not seen the coverage from Brands yet (still haven't finished watching the previous rounds!) but presumably they were front left punctures? Stones have been mentioned before at Brands for causing puctures - particularly if cars run across the back of the kerb at Graham Hill, it'd be interesting to see the line Butcher and Jackson took through there. Maybe a combination of setup (camber angle exposing the sidewall more than other cars?) and cutting the corner contributed to the problem. The other corner where people take liberties with the kerbing (again the front left would take the punishment) would be Stirlings - but usually they stick a big tyre bale there to stop that sort of thing - having not seen the coverage I don't know whether that was the case this time.

The Motorbase punctures were front left. Jelley (and others) suggest that the Motorbase cars were too aggressive on front set up, and took too much kerb through paddock.

[billy bleach]

No mention of the kerb breaking up for 2 metres out the back according to a mate working in the Mini series

[bella]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It seems no one is blaming the heat for the punctures, so that’s one thing that doesn’t seem to be it

heat alone doesn’t cause failures, it exaggerates wear and obviously increases pressures significantly.

whilst it’s easy to say “we’ve not had any running in these temperatures” before, any engineer will see it coming. particularly if they’ve had a quick glance at the tyres before they’ve gone to be scrapped.

not having a go at motorbase, just thinking out loud.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The Motorbase punctures were front left. Jelley (and others) suggest that the Motorbase cars were too aggressive on front set up, and took too much kerb through paddock.

Interesting - I'd have thought Paddock was one of the safest corners to take large amounts of kerb as it's very wide there. I guess the load on the tyre is highest there too though given the combination of speed, direction and camber change.

[crmalcolm]

I'm not saying he's right, but Jelley's much better qualified to comment than I am (and I suspect man others here).

Jelley (after R3) - "this circuit's always been a bit of a one for punctures, that Paddock Hill there - erm it just pinches the, pinches the sidewall erm. And some cars to get the performance out of them you have to, you have to gamble a bit. Erm, and and you know, I think, I think Motorbase themselves learning that car, Rory unfortunate because he's been driving superbly."

[S griffin]

I don’t remember there being that many punctures here at previous races here. Not like there has been at Thruxton

Jelley isn’t saying it’s Motorbase’s fault, just that they’ve been unlucky to be caught out like that

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Jelley isn’t saying it’s Motorbase’s fault, just that they’ve been unlucky to be caught out like that

To me it's clear that is what he is saying - he linked gambling to get performance with learning a new car.
That was backed up by Butcher and Jackson's comments about learning where the limits of what they can do with the car are, and the punctures they picked up.

No one is going to come right out and say Motorbase got it wrong, just that they were unfortunate in how far they took their set up.

[RS67]

DB's Brands Hatch debrief.
https://www.facebook.com/18501483823...sM&d=null&vh=e

[porsche962fan]

speaking of Motorbase danger that they don't finish the season as they don't have much sponsorship on their Foci

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by RS67

DB's Brands Hatch debrief.
https://www.facebook.com/18501483823...sM&d=null&vh=e

thought for a monent DB stands for Dick Bennets

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by RS67

DB's Brands Hatch debrief.
https://www.facebook.com/18501483823...sM&d=null&vh=e

Fairly honest. The punctures were not caused by damage, but by the way the car was set up to load the tyres.

Thanks for providing the link.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

speaking of Motorbase danger that they don't finish the season as they don't have much sponsorship on their Foci

Or the other way of looking at it is, not having any sponsors to drop out and stop them from finishing the season. Fairly sure Tim said there was some more sponsorship on the car at Brands Hatch.