[WEC] WEC 2021 season

[Aysedasi]

Guys, we now have two threads in which we're posting essentially the same stuff (the other is the Prologue thread). If the conversation can be had here - and I think it should be, I'll close the other thread.

[greenmachinets040]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Guys, we now have two threads in which we're posting essentially the same stuff (the other is the Prologue thread). If the conversation can be had here - and I think it should be, I'll close the other thread.

I agree.

[Aysedasi]

OK, I'll do it now.

[Mike E]

And some comments from Alpine.

https://www.endurance-info.com/fr/ph...pas-surreagir/

[greenmachinets040]

Originally Posted by Mike E

And some comments from Alpine.

https://www.endurance-info.com/fr/ph...pas-surreagir/

So, then there are already talks among ACO and FIA about making changes. That is a good sign.

Thanks for the Link.

[WyldStallion]

Maybe they should do this AFTER Spa. In the meantime lets have a good race with multiple cars running for overall win. Will be more fun than 2 or 3. Stop complaining folks. Way too much of this on here. Prototype category in WEC is actually exciting and unpredictable for once. The first time since....errrr Le Mans 2017. And we know what happened that race.

[CTD]

I will say it a bit bluntly, but have people already forgotten the farce of the Ford GT sandbagging!?

Of course Toyota and Alpine will be faster once they sort out the setup and drop the sandbags - currently it is only a game of politics over the regulations and no real speed is shown.

Let us not forget that the LMP2 machines are quite well known to the teams and therefore on pace almost instantly. Neither Toyota nor Alpine really know their new car around Spa and will require some run in time.

[greenmachinets040]

Originally Posted by WyldStallion

Maybe they should do this AFTER Spa. In the meantime lets have a good race with multiple cars running for overall win. Will be more fun than 2 or 3. Stop complaining folks. Way too much of this on here. Prototype category in WEC is actually exciting and unpredictable for once. The first time since....errrr Le Mans 2017. And we know what happened that race.

I think fans should complain. Top category is top category. A big mistake happened from the organisational body.

Anyways, it would be interesting what would happen on saturday if the leave things as they are now.

[greenmachinets040]

Originally Posted by CTD

I will say it a bit bluntly, but have people already forgotten the farce of the Ford GT sandbagging!?

Of course Toyota and Alpine will be faster once they sort out the setup and drop the sandbags - currently it is only a game of politics over the regulations and no real speed is shown.

Let us not forget that the LMP2 machines are quite well known to the teams and therefore on pace almost instantly. Neither Toyota nor Alpine really know their new car around Spa and will require some run in time.

[QUOTE=CTD;4048258]I will say it a bit bluntly, but have people already forgotten the farce of the Ford GT sandbagging!?

What happened with Ford GT?

[CTD]

[QUOTE=greenmachinets040;4048261]

Originally Posted by CTD

I will say it a bit bluntly, but have people already forgotten the farce of the Ford GT sandbagging!?

What happened with Ford GT?

The short sum up, was that Ford sandbagged the pace of the GT heavily in the two first rounds of the WEC, only to have the BoP changed before Le Mans and winning it.
The article here sums it up, included reaction from Ford themselves:
https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...g-allegations/

[joeb]

Graham has confirmed no adjustments before the race


https://twitter.com/dsceditor/status...513816578?s=19

[greenmachinets040]

[QUOTE=CTD;4048262]

Originally Posted by greenmachinets040

The short sum up, was that Ford sandbagged the pace of the GT heavily in the two first rounds of the WEC, only to have the BoP changed before Le Mans and winning it.
The article here sums it up, included reaction from Ford themselves:
https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...g-allegations/

Ahh, I understand now. Seems like Ford have already had answers for all the potential questions coming up.

thank you!

[greenmachinets040]

Originally Posted by joeb

Graham has confirmed no adjustments before the race


https://twitter.com/dsceditor/status...513816578?s=19

I am not a expert on it, but it seems st.pid.

Well, let s see if they were right.

What the most important is: the top category should win races BASED ON SHEER PACE, not on pit rules and fuel tank capacities.

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by greenmachinets040

I am not a expert on it, but it seems st.pid.

Well, let s see if they were right.

What the most important is: the top category should win races BASED ON SHEER PACE, not on pit rules and fuel tank capacities.

We're not as slow as they are and they're not as slow as they are.

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by greenmachinets040

I think fans should complain. Top category is top category. A big mistake happened from the organisational body.

Anyways, it would be interesting what would happen on saturday if the leave things as they are now.

I think the Toyotas will win overall over the LMP2 class winner by somewhere between 1 min 30 seconds to 2 laps. Driver quality will win out. Plus I bet LMP2 cars don't go as far on fuel either. First 2 hours will be very fun to watch.

Also I think Corvette has a chance to win GTE. They are great executioners of race strategy. They have the C8 figured out now. Watch for them to win for sure. I think Antonio Garcia is the best driver in the GT grid.

[chernaudi]

I sort of saw this coming, between the portly weight of LMH and the fact that BOP was introduced into the class this year (EOT was basically BOP as of last season).


This is possibly Toyota playing BOP games with LMP2, let alone Alpine. I sort of also call bullcrap on Toyota claiming that they can't go down much in terms of weight. I'd bet that the GR010 is heavily ballasted to meet 1030+kgs. Is it heavier than the base TS050? Sure, but it's not like they can't take ballast out of the car if the ACO call for it.


I can obviously see Toyota not being happy on spending millions of dollars to develop a car that as of now is barely faster than a LMP2 car that costs significantly less money and is an off the shelf car that anyone with a big enough check book can buy.


But, how much of that is their own making to milk the BOP system (which Graham thinks Toyota are to some degree, both between LMP2 and within LMH), and how much of it is down to the ACO making LMH cars so heavy? Some drivers have said observing the Toyotas that the big reason they seem slower in sector 2 is the weight they have to carry.


If there's no or little sandbagging going on, who got their sums wrong? Toyota? The ACO?

[Gingers4Justice]

I’m very glad we’re all losing our minds over a test. We all know as sports car enthusiasts that firm judgements can always be made about test. Tests are always truth. In fact what can you find out from a race you can’t find out from a test?

[Matador]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I sort of saw this coming, between the portly weight of LMH and the fact that BOP was introduced into the class this year (EOT was basically BOP as of last season).


This is possibly Toyota playing BOP games with LMP2, let alone Alpine. I sort of also call bullcrap on Toyota claiming that they can't go down much in terms of weight. I'd bet that the GR010 is heavily ballasted to meet 1030+kgs. Is it heavier than the base TS050? Sure, but it's not like they can't take ballast out of the car if the ACO call for it.


I can obviously see Toyota not being happy on spending millions of dollars to develop a car that as of now is barely faster than a LMP2 car that costs significantly less money and is an off the shelf car that anyone with a big enough check book can buy.


But, how much of that is their own making to milk the BOP system (which Graham thinks Toyota are to some degree, both between LMP2 and within LMH), and how much of it is down to the ACO making LMH cars so heavy? Some drivers have said observing the Toyotas that the big reason they seem slower in sector 2 is the weight they have to carry.


If there's no or little sandbagging going on, who got their sums wrong? Toyota? The ACO?

Definitely inclined to agree with you that those cars are heavily ballasted. I'd be well and truly shook if they cannot easily drop the car to under 1000kg tbh.


Still a travesty on the part of the ACO to have made LMH cars that heavy though. Ridiculous.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I sort of saw this coming, between the portly weight of LMH and the fact that BOP was introduced into the class this year (EOT was basically BOP as of last season).


This is possibly Toyota playing BOP games with LMP2, let alone Alpine. I sort of also call bullcrap on Toyota claiming that they can't go down much in terms of weight. I'd bet that the GR010 is heavily ballasted to meet 1030+kgs. Is it heavier than the base TS050? Sure, but it's not like they can't take ballast out of the car if the ACO call for it.


I can obviously see Toyota not being happy on spending millions of dollars to develop a car that as of now is barely faster than a LMP2 car that costs significantly less money and is an off the shelf car that anyone with a big enough check book can buy.


But, how much of that is their own making to milk the BOP system (which Graham thinks Toyota are to some degree, both between LMP2 and within LMH), and how much of it is down to the ACO making LMH cars so heavy? Some drivers have said observing the Toyotas that the big reason they seem slower in sector 2 is the weight they have to carry.


If there's no or little sandbagging going on, who got their sums wrong? Toyota? The ACO?

Could it be that until a great many more manufacturers come forward with their hypercar projectiles, the FIA/ACO need to ensure that privateers with LMP2's need to be kept very very interested to continue racing?

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I’m very glad we’re all losing our minds over a test. We all know as sports car enthusiasts that firm judgements can always be made about test. Tests are always truth. In fact what can you find out from a race you can’t find out from a test?

Amen

[chernaudi]

All I can say is that either the ACO screwed up or Toyota and Alpine seriously have some cards they're not showing. Same thing always happens when BOP gets thrown in to the mix. I do believe that Graham is right in that Toyota especially are trying to game the system. To what extent or why is unclear.


But I should've known that when BOP was declared by the ACO to be part of LMH, we should've seen it coming. BOP is a double edged sword. It stifles development because there's not much incentive in doing so (especially as the ACO also declared once a car's homologated outside of joker updates no major changes can be made for 5 seasons), and teams will try and game the system for their benefit.


Of course, open rules aren't much better, as that'll for sure create haves and have nots. But at least it can be argued then that's the natural order.


Nevertheless, for me as a fan, it's frustrating to see teams playing games instead of possibly running to their full potential. Maybe LMH has issues, but it's up to the ACO to make LMHs quicker, not hamper the LMP2s further than they are already.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I’m very glad we’re all losing our minds over a test. We all know as sports car enthusiasts that firm judgements can always be made about test. Tests are always truth. In fact what can you find out from a race you can’t find out from a test?

Yep, I mean, we know that teams (especially manufacturers) always show their full potential at a test, right? Personally, I expect normal service to be resumed, at Le Mans, if not before...... Can someone give me a hand with these goalposts?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I’m very glad we’re all losing our minds over a test. We all know as sports car enthusiasts that firm judgements can always be made about test. Tests are always truth. In fact what can you find out from a race you can’t find out from a test?

EXACTLY what he said. How has this forum turned in to full faith and believers that EITHER LMH classed car was running flat out? It's complete and utter garbage to think that was flat out pace and if you believe it was and things need to change, well the phrase dumber than a paper bag comes to mind. Amazingly come race day Toyota will end up winning by a margin and if Alpine has the same knuckleheads running this as F1 a frites wrapper will get stuck and block something to make the car fail and whimper in to the garage. Only a few laps after they had seen it and could have taken the time to remove it at the stop that had just occurred, better slightly longer stop and still running that quick stop and zero points.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

EXACTLY what he said. How has this forum turned in to full faith and believers that EITHER LMH classed car was running flat out? It's complete and utter garbage to think that was flat out pace and if you believe it was and things need to change, well the phrase dumber than a paper bag comes to mind. Amazingly come race day Toyota will end up winning by a margin and if Alpine has the same knuckleheads running this as F1 a frites wrapper will get stuck and block something to make the car fail and whimper in to the garage. Only a few laps after they had seen it and could have taken the time to remove it at the stop that had just occurred, better slightly longer stop and still running that quick stop and zero points.

Welcome to the glass half full club......

[broadrun96]

Oh, it's half full but not likely of a good thing.

But then I'll watch whatever is on the track and appreciate the fun of racing. Hell we watched a Ford ZX2, Nissan D21 hardbody, Mazdas and a guy in a seriously misfiring MG Midget race 3 times this weekend. Yup, they were the same class with a couple Ginetta G4s, Corvair, Mini, Morgans, B and Midgets and a FAST Spitfre that ran all weekend without electrical issues, I know surprised as well. And a 78 year old guy turn 1:15 laps around Road Atlanta in a Judd V10 powered Panoz DP09, the Champcar that ran in period with a Cosworth. (FYI, that slots in just ahead of GTLM)