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9 Feb 2023, 18:57 (Ref:4143312) | #301 | ||
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Some months ago, we had some busses in Paris area catching fire. All from the same builder. Under investigation… Knowing the battery/ bus builder no news, good news!
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9 Feb 2023, 21:46 (Ref:4143320) | #302 | ||
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While it is true that a fire in an EV can be more difficult to bring under control, it is false to claim that they are more common or can happen on their own.
https://driveelectriccolorado.org/myth-buster-evs-fire/ |
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9 Feb 2023, 21:50 (Ref:4143321) | #303 | |||
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Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa ! |
9 Feb 2023, 22:02 (Ref:4143322) | #304 | |||
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An interesting article there, and while I have no cause to doubt the claims made, one part did catch my eye: "To reduce the risk of fires in malfunctioning electric models, it is important to follow the recommendations of the manufacturer, including maintaining a charge between 20–80% and avoiding leaving the car charging unattended overnight." So, if you want to be 'safe' in your EV, then you can really only use 60% of your - in all likelihood - already inadequate range, and you can't leave it on charge overnight (unless you're willing to sit up all night to watch it), which surely is just precisely when most people are going to want to charge them? I think I'll pass, all things considered, until someone comes up with a better idea... |
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9 Feb 2023, 22:11 (Ref:4143323) | #305 | |||
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It would be interesting to know the percentage of EVs vs ICE vehicles at the time ? most of us know that "statistics" can prove anything |
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Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa ! |
9 Feb 2023, 22:30 (Ref:4143324) | #306 | ||
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My guess - and I hasten to add it is no more than a guess - would be that, in the USA, in 2015, EVs probably accounted for about a half of one percent of the cars on the road there.
To be fair to the article however, it does then go on to make the comparison measured by miles driven which, on the face of it, still puts the EV in a more favourable light. That is, until you consider the fact that you can't do that many miles in your EV, because, as we learnt from the article, you can realistically only use 60% of your charge, and you won't even have a full charge anyway when you set off in the morning, because you didn't want to stay up all night on firewatch! In your ICE vehicle, you can use your full tank of gas, and then you can refill in five minutes and keep driving - so of course, ICE vehicles do lots more miles. Last edited by Paul D; 9 Feb 2023 at 22:37. |
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9 Feb 2023, 23:34 (Ref:4143326) | #307 | ||
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[QUOTE=GORDON STREETER; most of us know that "statistics" can prove anything [/QUOTE]
True, Gordon. 73 percent of statistics are made up. |
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9 Feb 2023, 23:42 (Ref:4143327) | #308 | ||
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"Light travels faster than sound - that's why, at first, some people appear bright... until you hear them speak!" |
10 Feb 2023, 08:10 (Ref:4143345) | #309 | ||||
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I wonder what the next great solution to the supposed problem will be? |
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Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange! |
10 Feb 2023, 08:23 (Ref:4143352) | #310 | |||
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To the first part - are EVs more likely to catch fire than an ICE car? There is no evidence that confirms this. The amount of data is low for EVs currently, but there does seem to be more evidence that suggests an EV is less likely to catch fire. I'm sure specific examples can be put forward, but the same is true of ICE cars too (BMW recalling more than a million vehicles in 2022 for a fire risk as an example). To the second part - are EV fires more difficult to handle? I think this is true. There are lots of examples where an EV fire has proven more difficult to handle than anticipated, and the effects of an EV fire tend to be more extreme. If you look at it from a risk management perspective, then you could consider: Terminate the risk - ban EVs from production. Treat the risk - this is where the likelihood vs impact assessment is made. You can reduce the chance of an EV fire happening, but they are already relatively rare and so this might not bring the risk down to a tolerable level. So, you are left with reducing the impact. Being able to tackle an EV fire will become more understood as their use expands, and manufacturers are working on ways to mitigate the severity of an EV fire when it happens. Yes - EV fires are dramatic and can be much more extreme in nature. And it is understandable why use of EVs in confined spaces is being restricted for this very reason. But that doesn't mean they are more likely to happen, or that an EV fire can happen 'by itself'. |
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10 Feb 2023, 09:05 (Ref:4143354) | #311 | ||||
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(As an aside when the fire was put out it was realised no one was in the driving seat, with one deceased in the front passenger seat and one in the rear... that of course is another issue, one with 'self driving' software moreso than with EV's per se). Found a link to the story: https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...verless-crash/ Also from that link and relevant to this discussion .... Quote:
EDIT: Just found a link to the report on the review of "Safety Risks to Responders from Lithium-Ion Battery Fires in EV's" https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-s...nts/SR2001.pdf Last edited by E.B; 10 Feb 2023 at 09:17. |
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10 Feb 2023, 10:30 (Ref:4143366) | #312 | ||
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Although there has been a large increase in vehicle battery fires , a lot of people and the media seem reluctant to admit it .https://beforeitsnews.com/eu/2022/11...s-2697522.html A lot of the fires have been caused by charging or collisions , but there have been some that the cause has not been explained , possibly because there is a push for more electric vehicles and they do not want people frightened. |
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10 Feb 2023, 11:41 (Ref:4143370) | #313 | |||
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It's pretty humorous to read the rhetoric in the linked article: 'Dramatic Recent Increase in U.K. Electric Vehicle Battery Explosions And Fires' 'Startling new evidence' and yet paragraph two says 'Electric vehicle (EV) sales have risen of late' More EVs = more fires. If someone finds that dramatic and startling, then they are quite naive. |
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10 Feb 2023, 12:31 (Ref:4143372) | #314 | ||
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The way I look at it, we're in the foothills of a revolution in personal transport. I'd happily have an EV for my day to day commuting, around the village or into town or whatever, and there'd be no range anxiety. But for the trip to the track I'll choose a diesel van over an EV any day.
It will change. Look at mobile phones of even 20 years ago, in performance terms totally different to the ones we have today. Poor battery life, p-poor call quality and forget using them to find your way or as an internet tool. Why does everyone assume that EV technology won't change between now and universal adoption? The same goes for power generation. I believe governments are hampered by the views of those they're trying to court to get themselves re-elected - witness the pandering to the anti-nuclear lobby of the 70s and 80s. A new era beckons, but we need to believe it's just starting and we're not at the end game yet. We need to change, because the status quo has worked so well hasn't it? Pollution, energy inflation, threatened blackouts, held in thrall to hostile nations. Great choice boys! |
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Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
10 Feb 2023, 16:05 (Ref:4143383) | #315 | ||
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Is this kind of battery banned from racing cars? I keep my "normal", bike and cars, unit till the instances change their mind, because its the law and because they know more and better than I.
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11 Feb 2023, 01:11 (Ref:4143416) | #316 | |||
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Im no expert in the racing applications but I did find a bit of stuff online from those with an interest. Im sure others here can interpret and comment with more knowledge than I. This link talks of supply for racing applications of "Super B Lithium Batteries" and indeed shows a picture of a Historic Touring car..... https://www.super-b.com/en/lithium-p...%20race%20cars. Also a youtube video talking of their use in drag racing: https://youtu.be/bIp12JJ7G-8 Even a blog article on racing batteries from our friends at Demon Tweeks which mentions Lithium batteries: https://blog.demon-tweeks.com/motors...sport-battery/ I found this paper from 2019, which indicates research into the idea. Also highlights the risks of "Thermal Runaway".... Might have to download it to read it. Lithium_Batteries_in_Racing_Presenters_Notes Last edited by E.B; 11 Feb 2023 at 01:25. Reason: Added the Demon Tweeks blog link |
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11 Feb 2023, 08:03 (Ref:4143434) | #317 | ||
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Thanks for the links and the search! For a racing car I feel that a traditional battery meets all my requirements, they are not that heavy compared to a "gel" battery supposed to be dedicated to this type of use, not mentioning the hassle of the terminals. And the price is traditional too, a good charge and that's it!
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11 Feb 2023, 09:45 (Ref:4143438) | #318 | ||
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The " Thermal Runaway " explanation seems to be the reason that EVs catch fire all by themselves . Chevrolet have recalled the battery packs on about 140,000 EVs because of faults , and VW has done about 21,000 vehicles .It has also been a problem with several other manufacturers . |
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11 Feb 2023, 11:42 (Ref:4143452) | #319 | ||
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Those of you concerned with the safety aspects of Lithium batteries could do worse than to research and read up on their use in the aviation industry.
There are very well documented examples and incidents involving spontaneous combustion leading to smoke in the cockpit. The rules around their transport as goods by air are also worth a read - not allowed to carry in the hold of passenger aircraft under any circumstances. |
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a salary slave no more... |
11 Feb 2023, 16:44 (Ref:4143467) | #320 | ||
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I was about to buy one for my Honda bike, but gave up and went for a traditional Yuasa (Japan made) unit. Same for the cars, racing or not, and cant afford an Odyssey or the like.
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11 Feb 2023, 18:36 (Ref:4143469) | #321 | ||
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No danger in a Nürbur taxi but dont even think about some busses in Paris:https://insideevs.com/news/583324/pa...ter-two-fires/ Official explanation is that the battery itself is safe but "only" a small component is the cause of the whole mess. Go figure!
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12 Feb 2023, 14:42 (Ref:4143529) | #322 | ||
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Not only cars !
The number of fires caused by electric bikes and scooters has been rising, and cheap replacement rechargeable batteries and non-brand chargers have been blamed for the majority, according to the London Fire Brigade. Such replacements often fail to meet rigorous British health and safety standards. Fire services recommend that ideally all e-bikes, e-scooters and bikes with electric charge attachments should be stored in a safe place outdoors, such as inside a locked garage or shed. If your electric two-wheelers are kept indoors, a smoke detector needs to be installed nearby and they should not block any entranceways or exits. |
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Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa ! |
14 Feb 2023, 23:26 (Ref:4143738) | #323 | ||
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One of the problems with Teslas early in their production was the risk of any sort of battery damage caused by running over debris on the road. Or, maybe for the extremely foolish, off-road. There were a number of fires, some occurring when parked in a garage or a covered area where a charger had been installed, that resulted in a car conflagration setting the entire house alight. That may be more of a problem in the States where larger houses in the Suburbs tend to have large garages that are actually used as garages due to the extremes of temperature experienced and the size of hail stones on a bad day. |
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15 Feb 2023, 23:49 (Ref:4143846) | #324 | ||
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Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa ! |
16 Feb 2023, 11:27 (Ref:4143880) | #325 | ||
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McLaren?
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