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23 Oct 2023, 13:12 (Ref:4182620) | #2301 | |
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The single engine formula isn't annoying me, but I would like to see some competition for the Oreca chassis.
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23 Oct 2023, 14:03 (Ref:4182633) | #2302 | ||
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Here's to the new age of Sports car/Prototypes... |
23 Oct 2023, 19:29 (Ref:4182670) | #2303 | |||
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Funny to read about "folks IN racing who want wide open regs are those with unlimited pockets". I clearly remember normal LMP2 with University teams and garagists who had built their own cars. Where are they now? Oh, they should have way too large pockets and now build their own Mars stations. Looks like I represent a marginal minority of those fans who prefer autosport and rather then driver-o-sport. As monsieur Poirot said: "Round and around in the circles. Never will I understand the passion for such a pointless pastime". McRae and Loeb had clearly shown that a rally driver is a superior sportsman than just a "pilot". The whole interest in circling around is a test for the machine at the highest level. If there's no comparision in tech then it's waist of time and wallets. For sure, if ACO have taken a route to some kind of deindustrialisation for their top series, then it's obvious not to have supporting classes as it was previously. It's the same for F1. They've destroyed junior formulae who used to provide not only talented drivers but engineers and even whole teams upwards. So, we have Newey as the last proper designer. After he leaves to yacht building the whole F1 could be reverted into another Dallara highly sophisticated cup with BoPped engines. With no proper junior prototype classes for constructors it's a dead end for the top series. Sooner or later manufacturers are going to loose their interest and for 100500 time leave highly sophisticated sporting authorities with nothing to play. Well, you'll have 10-15 LMP2 teams and name Oreca monocup as a WC, but I've already prefer better racing in America (South and North) and Japan - thanks to YT it's possible to watch them. As for the comments here it all looks like a collective self-persuasion session. "Tout va très bien, Madame la Marquise...." |
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ACO-Ratel-Lotti group of "entertainpreneurs" soon will make you think that Reverse-Gear-Racing is the most professional series in the world. "Faccio il pane con la farina che ho". |
23 Oct 2023, 19:36 (Ref:4182671) | #2304 | |
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Well you have to think the LMDh development may make the other chassis be viable BUT can they make enough to make extras? Porsche is limiting new 963s but can Multimatic make new base chassis extra with the new regs? Can Dallara make enough learning from Caddy and BMW? Ligier will have data from Lamborghini so here's to hope they can all make another run at it.
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23 Oct 2023, 19:44 (Ref:4182674) | #2305 | ||
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OK, so where exactly were these cars you think well out in force on the track again? Yeah, when cars could be built in a shed, did 5 min laps and any wreck caused utter failure of the tube frame there were cars a plenty. But guess what, we matured to actual professional TEAM motorsport and made the drivers and teams FAR FAR FAR more professional as a SPORT. You've just decided to randomly decide that without garbage field filler efforts that made in less than half the race was "more sporting." No, that's just SCCA endurance racing, we have that still and you can watch cars built in a shed all over the planet. I on the other hand would like to watch those who are professional in every sense race the fastest car that can be viable instead of a car that burns all their money in a week and they poof disappear. Yes, some of those teams are fondly remembered but most for their failure and disappearance than the professional quality of their approach |
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23 Oct 2023, 21:54 (Ref:4182695) | #2306 | ||
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Even if the situation with ancient manufacturers - who had suddenly lost their abilities to construct ORECA beaters - is correct, there were still lots of constructors who could develop a car upon their knowledge from CN. And this was normal life. If someone is not good enough then there's other one that is better. But ACO have chosen a way for creating a monopoly. Well, maybe I was lied, but everyone had told me, that monopoly is not the way when you want to get the best product for a reasonable price. Still, I'm over the moon being in this microscopic minority who prefer the joy of engineering adventures by creators instead of being just a pompous motorized wallet.
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ACO-Ratel-Lotti group of "entertainpreneurs" soon will make you think that Reverse-Gear-Racing is the most professional series in the world. "Faccio il pane con la farina che ho". |
24 Oct 2023, 00:49 (Ref:4182710) | #2307 | ||
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LMP2 Manufacturers and Engine Suppliers
In motor racing, quite clearly, competition (on track) drives up (off track) costs. There are 6 million examples of this. Those who spend more win. Until the competition stops.
The ACO and IMSA currently have two or three models that they are using to make sure the competition is sustainable. LMP2 is just one of those. It is suitable for that second prototype class. As is Hypercar and GT3 for those classes. Again, we all like the idea of completely open and free competition, but the rule makers are sick of boom and bust. Although for the chassis we did have competition and ORECA won it! Comprehensively! Last edited by Adam43; 24 Oct 2023 at 01:54. |
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Brum brum |
24 Oct 2023, 07:38 (Ref:4182731) | #2308 | ||
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Imagine that in any other sport. The new football league is going to have one game. And only one team is allowed to know the rules before hand. And if you lose, thats it. But in 2 years we might give a rematch - but only if we decide it, and even then it's after the winning team has had years of income from the win, and you don't get anything. I don't agree with helgi rather extreme views, but I don't think looking at LMP2 and saying "certain points of this were a failure, and it is much less diverse than it should/could be" is a bad thing. |
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24 Oct 2023, 07:44 (Ref:4182734) | #2309 | ||
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I think Oreca ended up monopolising the market because their car was the most consistent across all racetracks - the ligier in capable hands was as fast as the oreca but seem to have a narrower working window than the oreca. The Dallara was never really run by a top team - and it showed its speed as the Cadillac DPI. The Riley oh well - the less said the better
Another change to LMP2 in the last few years is the professionalism of the teams - lookat lmp2 in 2016 and now - most teams could run Hypercar programmes nowadays and even the small ones have evolved rapidly into top teams i.e interuropol, Panis racing etc. The more professional is getting the more the teams will push for the best package Now should have ACO done anything to bring the others in line with the oreca? And how much can you do on a cost cap formula to catch up without massive redesign , I do not know Also with the 2026 lmp2s, my worry is the manufacturers will be too interested in developing LMDHs that they will not care much for the actual LMP2 and again one manufacturer will dominate |
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24 Oct 2023, 13:28 (Ref:4182787) | #2310 | ||
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24 Oct 2023, 13:53 (Ref:4182792) | #2311 | ||
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24 Oct 2023, 14:08 (Ref:4182795) | #2312 | |||
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Quote:
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I share the same fear but there is a market for probably what 50 plus of the next gen whenever they come out so you have to think each one will want some of that action |
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24 Oct 2023, 15:11 (Ref:4182802) | #2313 | |||
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Dallara also has a couple of different (3 if you count Ferrari) cars to be drawing data from at the moment and perhaps that will translate to a better P2 package as well. |
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24 Oct 2023, 15:15 (Ref:4182804) | #2314 | ||||
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BoP is democracy for racing. |
24 Oct 2023, 19:24 (Ref:4182845) | #2315 | ||
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10 Nov 2023, 19:29 (Ref:4185384) | #2316 | ||
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Well, monopoly doesn't help with professionalism. 80 hp down the limit of 700 is more than 10%. Having in mind all the stories I was told in this thread and building parallel lines, it looks like "Lola" needed only a helping hand of sporting authorities to build a monocup for them - and we would have had a Lolorsche Hypercar instead of a Porsh-o-matic one.
All I see is that a pragmatic way of monopolies somehow doesn't enhance the professionalism, which is clear on a competitive level (man, even BoP doesn't help and it says everything). Last edited by helgi; 10 Nov 2023 at 19:54. |
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ACO-Ratel-Lotti group of "entertainpreneurs" soon will make you think that Reverse-Gear-Racing is the most professional series in the world. "Faccio il pane con la farina che ho". |
11 Nov 2023, 00:35 (Ref:4185403) | #2317 | ||
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Off topic.
That’s a stretch to make that fit this narrative! All while not understanding what BoP does. Vanwall’s situation is nothing to do with LMP2 and BoP might be right, but it can’t even get to the BoP levels. Not that BoP is meant to make up for a bad car. To discuss this: The BoP thread is here: https://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157179 The Kolles thread is here: https://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141869 This is LMP2 thread. Last edited by Adam43; 11 Nov 2023 at 00:44. |
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Brum brum |
11 Nov 2023, 09:42 (Ref:4185439) | #2318 | ||
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So communistic to shut the speech if the authority doesn't like it. I've said that LMP2 monopoly leads to weak results. Then there's a provement of my words as outside of LMP2 they can not deliver a proper engine.
No wonder almost every non standard-minded has left this dictatorship forum. |
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ACO-Ratel-Lotti group of "entertainpreneurs" soon will make you think that Reverse-Gear-Racing is the most professional series in the world. "Faccio il pane con la farina che ho". |
11 Nov 2023, 10:05 (Ref:4185441) | #2319 | |||
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If you're only interested in pithy soundbites then don't be surprised when there is pushback. |
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BoP is democracy for racing. |
11 Nov 2023, 13:59 (Ref:4185458) | #2320 | |||
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[standard thinking communist mod note]
Back to LMP2, thanks. Quote:
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Brum brum |
12 Nov 2023, 02:57 (Ref:4185521) | #2321 | ||
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Oh, fyi communism would not be accurate. The words you should be using you finally used, dictatorial. But in this case oligarchy as there are multiple admins. If you want to be that guy at least be accurately that guy |
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16 May 2024, 17:47 (Ref:4209192) | #2322 | ||
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This is a very good read on the future of LMP2..
https://www.dailysportscar.com/2024/...mplicated.html As a fan, I would like them to crack on with introducing the new rules. I would like some variety in the class, assuming everyone doesn't just go with Oreca anyway as the safe option |
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16 May 2024, 17:50 (Ref:4209194) | #2323 | |
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Daily Sportscar have published a comprehensive update (credited to Stephen Kilbey) regarding the state of play, as they understand it, in the implimentation of the next generation LMP2 regs. It's a very interesting read: What’s Next For LMP2? It’s Complicated…
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16 May 2024, 17:51 (Ref:4209195) | #2324 | ||
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16 May 2024, 20:47 (Ref:4209210) | #2325 | ||
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Or simple minds
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