The 'Credit Crunch' and the Future of Club Motor Sport

[Al Weyman]

Yeah I hear what you are saying but its not always practical to commit so early is it, race cars being what they are and I don't think it would be twice as much, lets see whats happens when prices are annouced. I know our Lydden round will be discounted as will 2nd and 3rd races at all rounds.

Also at the moment please correct me if I am wrong but it appears to me that a lot of the cost savings and hence cheaper entry fees relies on the goodwill of the organisers and friends doing things for nothing that clubs have to pay staff to do. Long may that last but it has been my experience that people get fed up with doing unpaid work after a while.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by andy97

Race in a CSCC series.

The eprson who said he was going elsewhere is already in a CSCC series and is moving.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by falcemob

The person who said he was going elsewhere is already in a CSCC series and is moving.

Don't think so, he was talking about a 12 round championship that was becoming 8 - CSCC doesn't have 12 round and doesn't have championships.

[XJS18]

Originally Posted by andy97

Race in a CSCC series.

and pay twice as much!

[Al Weyman]

I would keep quite about it XJ, you may not get a race yourself! :-)

I guess the bottom line is you just cannot fill all grids in all types of disipline which is what is being relied on to get the costs down especially if you want to run in a series that has similiar cars. For example I am sure that the guys who raced with you in the Jaguar and those in the BMW clubs do so to race with like minded people and against similar cars same as blokes that do historics. Not everyone wants to race in a catch all like TTRS and DMN but I will say it does have its merits as far as costs go, it may come to that in the end the way things are going who knows in fact evidence of that can be prehaps seen with the Ford boys throwing in with Classic Thunder.

[XJS18]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I would keep quite about it XJ, you may not get a race yourself! :-)

I guess the bottom line is you just cannot fill all grids in all types of disipline .

I agree with you Al, I just think it is important that there are oppertunities for those with limited budgets to go out there and do what they love, race

I think that most drivers needs from a race series will continually change depending on their ability, achievements, and budget. A series such as TTRS suits me just fine at the moment, but will probably change in a couple of years.

Regarding people getting fed up with offering their help for no financial reward, yes they probably will. Whilst the series is so popular however, I am sure there will be plenty of volunteers to step into their shoes.

Dave

[andy97]

Originally Posted by XJS18

and pay twice as much!

XJS18, I am not sure why you say that, as I said earlier the entry fees for the CSCC series (Swinging Sixties, Tin Tops, Future Classics) were between £235 & 285 for 70 mins track time last year. There was one alternative example quoted for a series which had a 20 min practice & 2 x 30 min races at £290 on the Silverstone GP circuit which is excellent value but that is not twice as much by my reckoning (although Maths was never my strong point) & generally I think that the CSCC series stack up extremely well against other clubs in the VFM stakes. And remember, the beauty of the CSCC series is that costs (running & entry) can be shared between two drivers if necessary.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by andy97

Don't think so, he was talking about a 12 round championship that was becoming 8 - CSCC doesn't have 12 round and doesn't have championships.

Think so, he was at the JEC dinner dance, all JEC racing is run by the CSCC except for the XK championship which is run by Masters.
I think if you get someone to do the arithmetic for you you'll find that the other series help subsidise the CSCC's own races...........and that's my invite to Spa out the window.

[XJS18]

OK Andy, I concede that my maths is not spot on, and it is very difficult to do an exact comparison of VFM unless it is the same track, layout, and time of year.

I also concede that Future Classics is better VFM than most if you are using two drivers, may even do a couple myself this year?

I did however do an exercise last year on cost per minute of track time of several series, and TTRS came out streets ahead of everyone else. Results were published on my website, and I will be doing the same exercise this year! now where's my anorak

[XJS18]

Originally Posted by falcemob

I think if you get someone to do the arithmetic for you you'll find that the other series help subsidise the CSCC's own races...........and that's my invite to Spa out the window.

I don't think you can blame the CSCC for looking after their own interests, but I think the likes of the JEC are taking the easy option getting someone else to do the donkey work, take the risks etc. Unfortunately its the Drivers that suffer by paying over the odds!

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by XJS18

I don't think you can blame the CSCC for looking after their own interests, but I think the likes of the JEC are taking the easy option getting someone else to do the donkey work, take the risks etc. Unfortunately its the Drivers that suffer by paying over the odds!

I suppose you're correct there and of course I didn't complain when I used to play in the Tin Tops. Don't forget the JEC racing is run more or less single handedly by one person and he also has other things going on in his life, so to be fair to try and get assistance in any way he can must be a big help.

[johnw]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

...what do you recommend all the people who get turned away do ...?

Nobody was turned away, everyone who entered a race with TTRS last year was able to race.
Once oversubscribed, we bought more time and put on another race.

[Al Weyman]

Thats fair enough then but I would have thought occassions will arise when further time to purchase is not available. Also you are in a unique situation as I have outlined before, which allows a broader spectrum of car types, this unfortunately does not suit everyone although as I said it may come to it that we have no choice witness Classic Thunder incorperating Boss Ford saloons. Anyhow keep up the good work others are taking notice I am sure.

[Al Weyman]

Is it me or is this thing just getting worse and worse? I seriously doubt many of us will be racing at this rate if things don't improve and they certainly don't look like they will if the bloody press and TV keep banging on like they are, its getting more and more like a survival excercise now forget the racing bit! Just opened a £600 gas bill don't help! I am starting to get depressed.

[XJS18]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Is it me or is this thing just getting worse and worse? I seriously doubt many of us will be racing at this rate if things don't improve and they certainly don't look like they will if the bloody press and TV keep banging on like they are, its getting more and more like a survival excercise now forget the racing bit! Just opened a £600 gas bill don't help! I am starting to get depressed.

Yes Al things are getting worse and will continue to do so for the forseeable future. I tried to start a similar thread on the JEC website, not one response. I think most of the country has been living in cloud cuckoo land for the last 6 months!

However club racing is not doomed, but we do need to face reality if we are going to minimise casualties!

I am personally suffering from the "credit crunch" but I will be out racing this season. I will be cutting down on costs dramatically however!

[Al Weyman]

I intend to but have just put on hold an order to the US when the pound suddenly dropped even more last week, the rebuild of the engine for my 2nd car will have to go on hold for now. I think its about time the clubs and MSA got their heads together to make the outlay at the start of the season a lot less as this is what puts you off. In my case I have to join two clubs (why?) which is £200 then the medical as much as my greedy doctor decides to charge this year (£100 minimum) then the licences itself (£50) so before I start I am into £350, if I was a new comer add another £300 for ARDS.

So there you have it unless you intend to do a reasonable seasons racing or can only afford say three or four rounds this year you walk away before you start and I think this is the problem that really needs addressing and one I hear moaned about more than any other when I try to talk people into coming back out.

[Robert Morris]

Dont worry the racers that work for the state owned northern rock will be able to afford to race after the get there bonus today.

[Al Weyman]

As they said on question time last night just why should you have bonus's for doing your regular job, you should either do it properly or get fired end of, this is a recent phenomena bought about as a result of crazy employment laws meaning you cannot sack under achievers so easy as you could.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by XJS18

Yes Al things are getting worse and will continue to do so for the forseeable future. I tried to start a similar thread on the JEC website, not one response. I think most of the country has been living in cloud cuckoo land for the last 6 months!

However club racing is not doomed, but we do need to face reality if we are going to minimise casualties!

I am personally suffering from the "credit crunch" but I will be out racing this season. I will be cutting down on costs dramatically however!

I gave up posting on the JEC forum about a week after it started, you get more response from a corpse. As for suffering from the credit crunch, I think possibly the only people who won't be suffering too much are those who are already in debt and have no savings. I'm suffering because my shares that were worth £10K 12 months ago are now worth around £1200, the income on my savings have dropped by over half and my private pension won't even buy me a loaf of bread per week.

On the plus side I only race using my disposable income so I think I will be OK this year providing I still have a job.

[Al Weyman]

I agree with you Tim, I know someone who is on the sick and has just had an £11000 credit card bill reduced to £100 a month payback with no interest to be charged, those who are seen to have nothing will fare well no doubt as usual.

[Robert Morris]

I am going to cheer myself up this weekend, wont turn telly on or buy a paper then go to the DMN dinner dance, and party.

[Tim Falce]

I'm bringing a telly, radio and Saturday's papers with me

[Robert Morris]

only if your radio gets Radio Luxumburge or you to young to remember that?

[Al Weyman]

I remember lying in bed till late at night listening to it on a single transistor radio device I think it was called a cats whisker or something, anyone remember them no speaker just a single earpiece.

[Robert Morris]

i must have been the lucky one my radio had 6 transistors and an aerial.