WEC Race 2015 WEC Round 4 - 6 Hours of Nurburgring: 28 - Page 10

Spyderman · 31 Aug 2015, 08:20 (Ref:3570182)

Are you the melodrama police? I suppose the crying about diesel flow is all very "logic".

Akrapovic · 31 Aug 2015, 08:59 (Ref:3570190)

lol, all that positive Porsche talk and that's the bit you quote.

Well we know that there is less diesel used than petrol. We know this because the fuel tank is significantly smaller. But we also know that the Audi takes 6 seconds longer to refuel than the petrol vehicles (source: RLM). Therefore it's restricted back to that. Why? I don't know. But unlike others, I openly admit I don't know why it's like that (and I'm hoping someone here will enlighten me), and that it made very little difference. I mean I suppose I could moan and say it's a disgrace and if the petrol engined cars should be embarrassed or whatever.

wolfhound · 31 Aug 2015, 09:09 (Ref:3570192)

I suspect the reason is based on the energy content of a litre of petrol compared to a litre of diesel. If diesel has a greater energy density then its flow rate will need to be slower than that of petrol.
Also Audi has a higher fuel energy allowance at 4 MJ than Porsche at 8 MJ. Therefore Audi needs more fuel to end up at a similar performance level to Porsche.

In order to encourage teams going for higher MJ classes I suspect the regs are slightly set in favour of the higher MJ classes but not by much.

Spyderman · 31 Aug 2015, 09:13 (Ref:3570193)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfhound

I suspect the reason is based on the energy content of a litre of petrol compared to a litre of diesel. If diesel has a greater energy density then its flow rate will need to be slower than that of petrol.
Also Audi has a higher fuel energy allowance at 4 MJ than Porsche at 8 MJ. Therefore Audi needs more fuel to end up at a similar performance level to Porsche.

In order to encourage teams going for higher MJ classes I suspect the regs are slightly set in favour of the higher MJ classes but not by much.

If I recall correctly, that was the explanation that was given at the time. All accepted it as "fair" ....until Audi started loosing.

Akrapovic · 31 Aug 2015, 09:17 (Ref:3570195)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyderman

If I recall correctly, that was the explanation that was given at the time. All accepted it as "fair" ....until Audi started loosing.

A good unbiased view there, thanks. As opposed to the massive massive complaints when there was even a possibility of Porsche losing a race very recently.

wolfhound, thank you for the proper explanation.

Spyderman · 31 Aug 2015, 09:19 (Ref:3570197)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

A good unbiased view there, thanks. As opposed to the massive massive complaints when there was even a possibility of Porsche losing a race very recently.

wolfhound, thank you for the proper explanation.

I have never claimed being unbiased. Quite the contrary! I can live quite comfortably with my shortcomings.

Oh how the truth hurts!

Rodger Davies · 31 Aug 2015, 14:53 (Ref:3570255)

So forgive me if this is off topic or interrupting something, but I haven't read any other posts in the thread.

So I was out yesterday but today is a holiday in the UK so I thought I'd catch the race today when I get back home. I'm getting mixed up with Blancpain though, because I completely forgot that there is no way to watch this race back. Despite it being on Eurosport Player and the WEC official stream yesterday, if you don't watch live then that's it for you; no chance to watch it back.

WEC, if you're reading, I'm happy to pay for it, but make it available on demand please. As it is, I'll watch the rallying coverage from Czech Republic instead, seeing as my second choice (PWC from Sonoma) is also not available to watch back.

Akrapovic · 31 Aug 2015, 15:15 (Ref:3570261)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

So forgive me if this is off topic or interrupting something, but I haven't read any other posts in the thread.

So I was out yesterday but today is a holiday in the UK so I thought I'd catch the race today when I get back home. I'm getting mixed up with Blancpain though, because I completely forgot that there is no way to watch this race back. Despite it being on Eurosport Player and the WEC official stream yesterday, if you don't watch live then that's it for you; no chance to watch it back.

WEC, if you're reading, I'm happy to pay for it, but make it available on demand please. As it is, I'll watch the rallying coverage from Czech Republic instead, seeing as my second choice (PWC from Sonoma) is also not available to watch back.

If you wait a few days, there's some lovely chaps who uploads them to YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtI...PXVCKNw/videos

Coach Ep · 31 Aug 2015, 15:23 (Ref:3570262)

If only more days were a holiday...!

FxL · 31 Aug 2015, 18:27 (Ref:3570292)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

If you wait a few days, there's some lovely chaps who uploads them to YouTube.

Not sure about that :/

Quote:

I will not upload WEC Race anymore. Thanks. Le mans 24h has been deleted

J Jay · 31 Aug 2015, 18:33 (Ref:3570294)

That must be due to takedown requests from the WEC. While they do not offer any alternative(s) to watch a full replay of the race.

And there I was thinking that Manchester United's transfer department would make the most infuriating decisions of the day...

**Adam43** · 31 Aug 2015, 18:53 (Ref:3570296)

It is an absolute joke, it is clear that the petrol cars are favoured and the recent "equivalence" of technologies change do not go far enough - just look who won the last two races. It was obvious that the the rule makers favour diesels and that is how they want it to be, hence the recent changes that give them even more of an advantage despite them winning the first two races and having the best race pace. Wibble.

Ephaeton · 31 Aug 2015, 21:39 (Ref:3570333)

I was at the race as well and fully agree with Acid09's observations about attendance. Race could've been a bigger fight for the lead etc., but Porsche loves this track, not their fault the others don't, as much... I enjoyed what I saw, and I very much hope they return so I can repeat the endurance pendulum from zeltweg to the nürburgring

Another reason to be excited for cota...

msd76 · 1 Sep 2015, 06:00 (Ref:3570415)

I can understand the Audi’s tank size is smaller as they get more bang per litre, but why should it take longer to fill and smaller tank? To giving a helping hand to the higher Mj classes can’t be the real reason surely.

What I found dissappointing was the increase in the tyre allowence for this race, that really did take a lot of the interest out of the race along with a part of what endurance racing should be about. Moving forward we should be reducing the amount of tyres used.

Victor_RO · 1 Sep 2015, 06:12 (Ref:3570416)

Quote:

Originally Posted by msd76

I can understand the Audi’s tank size is smaller as they get more bang per litre, but why should it take longer to fill and smaller tank? To giving a helping hand to the higher Mj classes can’t be the real reason surely.

As far as I'm aware, due to chemical composition, diesel flows a lot slower than petrol even with larger refuelling restrictors. It's simply heavier hydrocarbons with different viscosity, and let's also remember that viscosity for fuels is also significantly dependent on temperatures. So the ACO could equalize the refuelling restrictors with data from one race, only to have the next race run in vastly different temperatures and the refuelling balance is thrown off again.

TzeiTzei · 1 Sep 2015, 15:11 (Ref:3570523)

Here are average lap times of stints and averages of all laps. I tried to remove all the abnormal lap times from FCYs, incidents etc.

Code:

				Avg. laptime	Stint avg.									
1   Toyota	Nakajima	1.42,3		1.42,233 31L	1.42,458 33L							
		Davidson	1.42,6		1.42,822 32L	1.42,321 32L	1.42,811 25L					
		Buemi		1.41,8		1.41.958 33L  	1.41,591 14L							

2   Toyota	Conway		1.42,7		1.42,951 31L	1.42,246 13L	1.42,675 33L					
		Wurz		1.43,2		1.43,728 32L	1.42,450 25L							
		Sarrazin	1.42,9		1.43,237 32L	1.42,571 33L							

7   Audi	Fässler		1.41,5		1.41,556 24L	1.41,383 32L							
		Lotterer	1.40,9		1.41,265 33L	1.40,252 34L	1.41,308 32L					
		Treluyer	1.41,6		1.41,632 20L	1.41,500 27L							

8   Audi	Duval		1.41,5		1.41,546 29L	1.41,468 30L							
		Di Grassi	1.41,0		1.41,211 32L	1.40,509 31L	1.41,409 28L					
		Jarvis		1.41,0		1.40,873 32L 	1.41,148 20L							
 
17  Porsche	Bernhard	1.40,5		1.41,279 24L	1.39,886 34L							
		Webber		1.40,4		1.40,371 32L	1.40,438 21L	1.40,378 28L					
		Hartley		1.40,4		1.40,480 33L	1.40,215 31L							

18  Porsche	Jani		1.40,4		1.40,080 31L	1.40,026 33L	1.40,387 14L	1.41,201 29L			
		Lieb		1.40,9		1.40,799 23L	1.41,389 9L	1.40,865 30L					
		Dumas		1.40,8		1.40,879 15L	1.39,693 4L	1.41,098 14L					

4   ByKolles	Kaffer		1.48,6		1.47,605 26L	1.48,379 5L	1.48,448 27L	1.50,435 9L	1.49,293 25L	
		Trummer		1.49,7		1.49,470 27L	1.49,981 29L	1.49,624 27L					

12  Rebellion	Heidfeld	1.46,6		1.45.393 11L	1.46,688 20L	1.47,018 27L					
		Prost		1.47,8		1.47,552 29L	1.48,043 30L							
		Beche		1.47,1		1.46,209 28L	1.47,941 28L

Code:

26  G-Drive	Bird		1.50,2		1.49,174 25L	1.51,873 27L	1.49,402 28L					
		Rusinov		1.51,6		1.50,708 29L	1.52,471 29L							
		Canal		1.51,8		1.51,270 21L	1.52,314 26L							

28  G-Drive	Derani		1.50,7		1.49,064 25L	1.52,239 27L	1.50,638 27L					
		Yacaman		1.51,0		1.50,336 28L	1.51,680 28L							
		Gonzalez	1.52,7		1.52,049 23L	1.53,369 26L							

30  ESM		Dalziel		1.51,4		1.50,521 10L	1.51,206 28L	1.50,987 27L	1.52,299 26L			
		Sharp		1.52,5		1.51,843 26L	1.53,299 23L							
		Heinemeier-H	1.51,6		1.50,738 27L	1.52,932 16L							

31  ESM		Van Overbeek	1.52,2		1.51,635 27L	1.53,284 28L	1.51,545 25L					
		Brown		1.57,7		1.59,463 16L	1.56,722 31L							
		Fogarty		1.51,5		1.51,077 23L	1.51,781 27L							

36  Signatech	Panciatici	1.50,9		1.50,255 26L	1.52,129 27L	1.50,317 25L					
		Chatin		1.51,8		1.50,799 28L	1.52,810 28L							
		Capillaire	1.52,6		1.52,280 22L	1.52,943 27L							

42  Strakka	Kane		1.50,9		1.50,323 26L	1.52,707 28L	1.49,697 27L					
		Watts		1.50,5		1.49,912 28L	1.51,085 29L							
		Leventis	1.53,0		1.53,042 14L	1.52,348 5L	1.53,461 7L	1.53,036 17L			

43  Sard Morand	Webb		1.50,9		1.50,407 26L	1.51,650 26L	1.50,695 25L					
		Ragues		1.51,9		1.51,245 27L	1.52,572 27L							
		Hamilton	1.52,1		1.51,937 27L	1.52,196 26L							
		
47  KCMG	Tandy		1.50,0		1.48,923 28L	1.52,210 25L	1.49,161 27L					
		Howson		1.51,4		1.50,389 29L	1.52,626 22L							
		Bradley		1.50,7		1.49,882 28L	1.51,557 26L

ATLFalconsFAN · 1 Sep 2015, 16:09 (Ref:3570530)

So Scott Sharp is slower than the gentleman driver. Interesting...

Victor_RO · 1 Sep 2015, 16:21 (Ref:3570533)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLFalconsFAN

So Scott Sharp is slower than the gentleman driver. Interesting...

On one hand, Scott is getting rather old. On the other hand, don't underestimate DHH, he may be the one who pays for his seat but he's getting better and better every year. I reckon he's approaching his motorsport career as methodically as he would approach a software project.

J Jay · 1 Sep 2015, 16:32 (Ref:3570539)

David Heinemeier-Hannson has always been a very quick Am, right back to his time in ALMS. He doesn't take any decision lightly either and has made nothing but good moves, with the arguable exception of the pit-lane petition following Daytona earlier this year. I remember a video of his at VIR (2013?) complaining about having to deal with the more traditional gentleman drivers in the second Dyson Lola...

Edit - And here it is.

Deleted · 1 Sep 2015, 18:53 (Ref:3570577)

This is starting to get rather weird on my part as I had so much pre-event discussion here and all that. And then I didn't watch it live. And then not even later as I had sort of planned, but just checked couple minute highlights on youtube, plus the official PDFs on alkamelsystems. And I was fine with it. There was that one. I guess I'm just starting to get to a point where I don't care that much? It's been that for while now

Reminds me of when I listened to some local radio program few years ago where some lightly drunken nutjob called in saying how he's the biggest football fan ever and knows everything and listed his favorite teams and how he follows it all and stuff, and then the presenter asked him how many matches he attends and watches on TV, he replied none ever and he just checks the results from newspaper. Lol

It's eery as Le Mans is what brought me to this sport, and then it widened the spectrum from there, and now it's going back to the point where LM is the only thing I truly still do care about!

Anyway congrats to #17 for the first one. P1 privateer rather shameful again...

**Adam43** · 1 Sep 2015, 21:43 (Ref:3570618)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

Here are average lap times of stints and averages of all laps. I tried to remove all the abnormal lap times from FCYs, incidents etc.

Thanks.

There are a few impressive performances in this race based on those times: Tandy, Lotterer, Beumi, the closeness of the #17 crew,...

Artur · 2 Sep 2015, 01:28 (Ref:3570646)

I missed this video during the test days:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkMm1hR2BJs

So, I'm sharing now in case others also missed. It's pure sound, so it's kind of nice.

TF110 · 2 Sep 2015, 04:37 (Ref:3570668)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

Thanks.

There are a few impressive performances in this race based on those times: Tandy, Lotterer, Beumi, the closeness of the #17 crew,...

Buemi was kinda close on average to the Audi's. I also noticed that the #1 car was again faster than the #2, but Conway was the fastest guy in the latter. Thats good to see because his pace was being questioned. Wurz and Sarrazin are the 'seniors' and I wonder if both stay with Toyota next year. Another thing was the CLM ran slower than the Rebellion, especially with Trummer driving.

Gingers4Justice · 2 Sep 2015, 22:37 (Ref:3570871)

Anyone know where I can watch the race again?

Deleted · 2 Sep 2015, 23:08 (Ref:3570883)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Anyone know where I can watch the race again?

FIA WEC App
[Yes] [No]

FIA WEC Other Official Sources
[Yes] [No]

Youtube
[Yes] [No]

RFM
[Yes] [No]

P-Exchange
[Yes] [No]

Eurosport Player Archive
[Yes*] [No]
(*only what was broadcasted on TV though ie around 90 min)

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