ALMS 2009 Discussion

[Hugewally]

Its official today...

PEUGEOT MAKES IT OFFICIAL: TWO CARS FOR PETIT LE MANS
Reigning Le Mans champion eager to add another crown for 2009

28 July, 2009

Peugeot confirmed today that it will attempt to add the trophy from Petit Le Mans powered by MAZDA6 to its collection with entries into the cornerstone event for the American Le Mans Series. The reigning 24 Hours of Le Mans champion will send two of its diesel-powered Peugeot 908 closed-top prototypes to compete on North America’s grandest sports car racing stage, just as it did to open the season at the 57th Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring presented by Fresh from Florida.

[Breitling24]

"young adult women"... what are you talking about, being ignored, chernaudi?
Forget Mikimoto Pearls???

(Anyone ever see Brabs wearing a string?)

[Zurbert82]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Maybe Hatchett Book Group and Summit Entertainment may use their Twilight Saga books/movies to prop Audi up in the ALMS, and serve three groups that I feel are poorly served by the ALMS, and racing in general: Teens/young adults, women, and teen/young adult women. It may be cheesy and stupid, but it'll boost the ALMS' ratings and souviner sales for Audi and the ALMS-girls and women between the ages of 12-26 go nuts for Twilight as much or more than Dale Jr..

LOL

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

None of this answers the question of who will run Audi's cars in the late season ALMS rounds this year, let alone next year if Audi runs the full season. Champion still "exhists", but is getting closer and closer to death as a team by the day, and probably won't field an ALMS team in the forseeable future even under the best of circumstances. So I'm inclined to give a 99% chance that Champion won't run R15s any time soon for sure. The south Florida economy, being more nervous and skittish than Kristen Stewart on Late Night with David Letterman, has surely shafted them.

Penske has stated no intention to return to the ALMS in the forseeable future as well. But then again, he's only running one car in Grand Am, and a DP should take only at most the squad from one RS Spyder to run, so where's the other teams' crew? I'm guessing that they're all laid off, or got shoehorned into Penske's Indy Car or NASCAR teams. Penske can return to the ALMS, but it'll take a crapload of money to get him back-Roger doesn't race for free.

And that leaves either Joest coming back to the US, or Audi pulling a Porsche-entering cars as a factory-owned effort with outside backing/sponsorship. It worked for Porsche in the 70's and 80's, as well as the mid-late 90's. No reason why Audi can't pull it off if they get the right sponsor. Maybe Hatchett Book Group and Summit Entertainment may use their Twilight Saga books/movies to prop Audi up in the ALMS, and serve three groups that I feel are poorly served by the ALMS, and racing in general: Teens/young adults, women, and teen/young adult women. It may be cheesy and stupid, but it'll boost the ALMS' ratings and souviner sales for Audi and the ALMS-girls and women between the ages of 12-26 go nuts for Twilight as much or more than Dale Jr.

Just my thoughts, but would Audi be willing to enter a team by themselves-after all, they sponsor themselves, so it may not be a big step.

First off, Champion has not entered a car in the ALMS since 05 I believe (ADT Champion Racing). Since 06 and the introduction of the R-10, it has been strictly ASNA who has entered the cars. I am sure it will be ASNA who fields the cars in the future. Audi still retain some key ex-Champion personnel that could be the nucleus to crew the cars as needed with the entire personnel pool of the old crew available to them and or augmented by Joest personnel. If the series truly wants them back, maybe they will be based out of Braselton for a while?



L.P.

[prototype]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

Its official today...

PEUGEOT MAKES IT OFFICIAL: TWO CARS FOR PETIT LE MANS
Reigning Le Mans champion eager to add another crown for 2009

28 July, 2009

Peugeot confirmed today that it will attempt to add the trophy from Petit Le Mans powered by MAZDA6 to its collection with entries into the cornerstone event for the American Le Mans Series. The reigning 24 Hours of Le Mans champion will send two of its diesel-powered Peugeot 908 closed-top prototypes to compete on North America’s grandest sports car racing stage, just as it did to open the season at the 57th Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring presented by Fresh from Florida.

So is Audi going to respond?

It would be a little different to see Peugeot win an ALMS race with Audi not contesting it.

[cthib10]

Originally Posted by prototype

So is Audi going to respond?

It would be a little different to see Peugeot win an ALMS race with Audi not contesting it.

Audi didn't really contest Le Mans this year really though did they?

Sorry that was harsh haha

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by prototype

So is Audi going to respond?

It would be a little different to see Peugeot win an ALMS race with Audi not contesting it.

You would think that they would defend their stomping grounds, per se.
Hopefully they will, and will need a couple of races to prep for Petit...



L.P.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by prototype

So is Audi going to respond?

It would be a little different to see Peugeot win an ALMS race with Audi not contesting it.

Who says Peugeot is going to win? But I agree, the addition of Audi would make the race another classic.

[ARTRACER1]

Just because the Pugs are running in no way asserts that Audi are obliged to run or even HAVE to run. Are they that egotistical that it means they MUST be here?? A great big Nein would be my answer. I also cant see them running 4 or 5 races here this year either. The recession is not over, and all manufacturers are working on skinny budgets. In fact under the circumstances, I'm amazed that the board members have even allowed it. The car buying public is not exactly flush with cash, the banks are sitting on all the money, while all the credit roaches are being sorted, there is so much mortgage fraud being uncovered, that many of those who wrote your deals, may well be wearing orange jump suits in the future. IF Audi decide to return here in 09, my guess would be MAYBE PLM and Laguna. Hey, at least there's a banquet after the final race !! OR 2010. ASNA can put a team together in a week. All the Champion crew are alive and kicking, even if spread out. Mike P and Brad only have to pick up the phone, assuming that they are put in charge.
I think running a team with some known faces, and previous experience would be preferable, in my opinion, than a switch to Penske. Having said that, Penske and Audi would bring back memories of Can Am in 1972 and 73. DOMINATION by the AUDINATION !! Of course , we are all allowed our little fantasy racing teams right?? The only person who knows is sitting in the boardroom in Ingolstadt. We can just daydream and pray for an end to this awful time. Hey Banks, it's time to release the money !!!!!

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by ARTRACER1

Just because the Pugs are running in no way asserts that Audi are obliged to run or even HAVE to run. Are they that egotistical that it means they MUST be here?? A great big Nein would be my answer. I also cant see them running 4 or 5 races here this year either.

Huh? Who said they were obliged to do it? Only suggested! Please do tell, who in racing is not an "A" type personality! Some may be well veneered, but...



L.P.

[MJ_N_09]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

Repeat after me, "Champion is dead!" That a few people (fewer than 5) now work for Audi, doesn't mean anything (as they don't work for Champion anymore). Champion is dead, they won't be coming back.

So harsh....

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

Repeat after me, "Champion is dead!" That a few people (fewer than 5) now work for Audi, doesn't mean anything (as they don't work for Champion anymore). Champion is dead, they won't be coming back.

The point I was making was that the name is really only that, a name, in the final judgment - and one they did not even use for the last stage of their existence. If someone like Kettler is tasked to lead an Audi P1 team in North America for 2010, it won't be 'Champion' but it won't be Joest per se either, nor Penske. If any former Champion hands were looking for employment coincidentally, would it be that surprising if they were to end up back at Audi? A team, after all, takes its defining nature from the folks at the top and while we might never see Mr. Maraj again, the key Audi personnel are, well, key.

[Hugewally]

Ok then, lets bring back Tafel Racing. Heck, lets bring back Holbert Racing too....

Fact of the matter is, the ex-Champion employees have jobs elsewhere. I know of only two people from Champion that when to work for Audi (Brad K being one of them).

[Canada ALMS fan]

Is the BMW ALMS program in jeopardy? Major BMW news conference regarding motorsport changes is only hours away, everyone assumes it is only F1 news....

[italiastraps]

Originally Posted by joeb

The source is and imsa technical bulletin.

If the P2 cars are able to run with the P1's that could lead to some interesting Acura v Acura battles with different cars.

What weight were the LMP2 cars running in 2008? The end of last season was quite exciting with Acura, Audi and Porsche all in contention for the overall win.

I recall that the RS Spyders were built to 750kg originally when they came to the series. Does anyone recall how the LMP2 weight was stepped-up over time?

[Danny_GT2]

Originally Posted by joeb

Who says Peugeot is going to win? But I agree, the addition of Audi would make the race another classic.

Like last year! McNish produced the drive of the year @ PLM 08!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Is the BMW ALMS program in jeopardy? Major BMW news conference regarding motorsport changes is only hours away, everyone assumes it is only F1 news....

Well the story on Autosport only mentions the axing of the F1 program. So the ALMS program may be safe.

[Dead-Eye]

I'm pretty sure the ALMS program is funded by BMW North America, so any decisions about it wouldn't come from Munich.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by italiastraps

What weight were the LMP2 cars running in 2008? The end of last season was quite exciting with Acura, Audi and Porsche all in contention for the overall win.

I recall that the RS Spyders were built to 750kg originally when they came to the series. Does anyone recall how the LMP2 weight was stepped-up over time?

'08 P-2s ran at 825kg. If you wish some tech tid bits and info look here > Mikes < What you are looking for will be at the bottom of the left hand column on the home page (ACO regs. by year). It is Art. #4 weight, which is usually on pg #8 of the regs. Some years it was a 25, 50 or 0kg difference in the P-2 class.

Enjoy and Welcome to 10 Tenths, italiastraps!



L.P.

[chernaudi]

LMP2 ran at 775kgs in '06-'07, and 800kgs in '08. In the LMS, all LMP2 have to run at 825kgs. In the ALMS, cars with the 2.0m wing had to run at 850kgs, and cars with the 1.6 wing could run at 825kgs, per ACO rules. Now all LMP2 in the ALMS can run at 825, irregardless of the wing size(note: all ALMS LMP2 run the 2.0m wing).

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

I'm pretty sure the ALMS program is funded by BMW North America, so any decisions about it wouldn't come from Munich.

Actually the press conference explicitly mentioned redirecting saved funds partly towards the ALMS program. It, like the RS Spyder, may have been commissioned by the NA branch, but as in that analogy, development has been carried out by the European motorsports arm of the company, and in this climate BMW NA can't run roughshod with funding anyway.

[chernaudi]

I was thinking after visiting the Ultimate Car Page, why can't IMSA and the ACO allow FIA GT1 cars to run in the ALMS/LMS next year? From what I've read, the current FIA GT1 cars aren't that different from the old GT1 cars, aside from being cheaper and a little slower. But could it be that ACO GT1/2 is a power based formula(GT1s have 650-700hp, GT2's have 450-500, and both classes have the same minimum weight), while the FIA formula is engine size, power, and weight(GT1 is aimed at cars that have engines over 5.0 or 5.5 liters, and GT2 is geared more for cars that have engines under 5 liters).

However, when one considers that the Nissan GTR has a 4.5 V8 based on the Super GT engine, and the Matech Ford GT has a 5.5 V8, and the new Reiter Lambo has a 6.7-6.75 V12 in it, those are basically old GT1 engines, especially the Lambo V12.

And then, the Pheonix Audi R8 that ran in VLN spec at the Spa 24 ran lap times as fast as, if not faster, than the ACO GT2 cars, so an Audi R8 GT2 is possible.

Basically, what would it take for FIA GT1 cars to be modified to IMSA/ACO specs, and bring a GT3 car to GT2 specs?-the Primetime Viper has struggled, but the Porsche 911 GT3 RSR(as the name implies) is a modified GT3 car, and then there was the Pheonix Audi R8 at Spa.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by cmk

Actually the press conference explicitly mentioned redirecting saved funds partly towards the ALMS program. It, like the RS Spyder, may have been commissioned by the NA branch, but as in that analogy, development has been carried out by the European motorsports arm of the company, and in this climate BMW NA can't run roughshod with funding anyway.

Also of note:

development of new drive technologies and projects in the field of sustainability.

which bodes well for the direction that ALMS Sportscar racing is heading, as it concerns the interest of BMW.



L.P.

[italiastraps]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

'08 P-2s ran at 825kg. If you wish some tech tid bits and info look here > Mikes < What you are looking for will be at the bottom of the left hand column on the home page (ACO regs. by year). It is Art. #4 weight, which is usually on pg #8 of the regs. Some years it was a 25, 50 or 0kg difference in the P-2 class.

Enjoy and Welcome to 10 Tenths, italiastraps!



L.P.

Thanks for the great info and the welcome! I've been a reader of the forum for a while. I'm think the ALMS potentially going to a "single" P class is a good move. It should be easier for the more casual fan to grasp while producing great racing for the overall win.

[Purist]

Chernaudi, the Porsche is NOT a modified GT3 car as you surmise. The designation dates back to the old GT class system, when McLaren F1s, Porsche 911-GT1s, and Mercedes CLK-GTRs formed the then GT1 class. After 1998/99, what was then GT2 became GTS, and then GT1. What was then GT3 became GT, and then GT2.

I do hope the LMP2s are brought back into the overall fray, at least in ALMS. And I see no compelling reason why at least some of the new FIA GT1s shouldn't/couldn't be allowed into ACO competition. The Nissan GTR might give me some pause, but I have no issue with the Matech Ford GT1 or the Reiter Lamborghini Murcielago SV670-R (Reventon?).