[BTCC] BTCC 2023 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[Robshillito1990]

Originally Posted by Pickles

New teams have the chance, no one has come forward to take some places on the grid...

Because there is absolutely no incentive. No prize money, constant financial battles with getting drivers to pay up. What's the point when they can go join other series and not have the hassle.

[tocatrucky]

Originally Posted by Adamcas87

If team Hard are struggling financially then why have they gone with running 6 cars this year?

Only a couple of the cupras seem competitive the rest either make the numbers up or breakdown

Maybe selling some of the cupras and downsizing is the answer

|Simply put, the less cars you run, the more expensive is in terms of £ in vs £ out. A one car operation needs 6-8 people. add another car and you only need 1-2 more people per car. A chief engineer and a No1 machanic. All tools,spares and transport are shared.

''Downsizing'' just cuts off the minor fat around the edges and loses 2 large income sources without changing the big picture, going racing is more expensive now than it was 3-5 years ago.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by tocatrucky

|going racing is more expensive now than it was 3-5 years ago.

that useless hybrid surelly didn't help matters

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by tocatrucky

|Simply put, the less cars you run, the more expensive is in terms of £ in vs £ out. A one car operation needs 6-8 people. add another car and you only need 1-2 more people per car. A chief engineer and a No1 machanic. All tools,spares and transport are shared.

''Downsizing'' just cuts off the minor fat around the edges and loses 2 large income sources without changing the big picture, going racing is more expensive now than it was 3-5 years ago.

I'm sorry, but that is far too simplistic; firstly chief engineers and a No.1 are not cheap. But apart from that, you need more transporters which requires extra truckies, plus there will be further expenditure on accommodation plus catering, etc. I'm pretty certain that the list goes on and on when you keep adding extra cars.

[thetool]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I'm sorry, but that is far too simplistic; firstly chief engineers and a No.1 are not cheap. But apart from that, you need more transporters which requires extra truckies, plus there will be further expenditure on accommodation plus catering, etc. I'm pretty certain that the list goes on and on when you keep adding extra cars.

No-one is claiming there aren't extra expenses. But you'd be nuts to think that running a 6-car team costs 6x the amount to run a single-car entry.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by thetool

No-one is claiming there aren't extra expenses. But you'd be nuts to think that running a 6-car team costs 6x the amount to run a single-car entry.

I'm sorry, but where did I say that; all I said that it's far too simplistic to say that you only need to pay for two extra people per car.

[Adamcas87]

Originally Posted by thetool

No-one is claiming there aren't extra expenses. But you'd be nuts to think that running a 6-car team costs 6x the amount to run a single-car entry.

Like it was said above, 6 cars 6 different sets of engineers etc
Of course it’s gonna cost more to run then a 2 car operation

[peebee2]

It certainly costs less per car the more cars you run.

You don’t need more data engineers, you don’t need more team managers, you don’t need more big £ equipment really than running three cars. You don’t that much more of a spares inventory.

Adding pairs works best with two per truck, although plenty of cars come on trailers anyway - be it BTCC or F1.

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

The last new team was Xceler8 I think - they have done alright so I can be done. Running 6 cars when it was clear 2 or 4 was a struggle seemed a bit mad

I never said it couldn't be done But where are all these new teams wanting in?

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by Robshillito1990

Because there is absolutely no incentive. No prize money, constant financial battles with getting drivers to pay up. What's the point when they can go join other series and not have the hassle.

Exactly.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Robshillito1990

Because there is absolutely no incentive. No prize money, constant financial battles with getting drivers to pay up. What's the point when they can go join other series and not have the hassle.

Where is this utopia world that pays prize money and drivers pay in full on time?……

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

that useless hybrid surelly didn't help matters

The cost of competing has increased across the board, in series with and without hybrid equally. Hybrid is not a factor in deciding whether to enter 2,4 or 6 cars in BTCC.

[FIRE]

The incentive of BTCC is a good tv coverage, but nowadays it's not enough.

[Robshillito1990]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Where is this utopia world that pays prize money and drivers pay in full on time?……

Don't like the truth it seems.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Robshillito1990

No prize money

completely wrong

btcc has one of the best prize pools in the uk

a few years ago the teams asked toca that the prize pool is evenly distributed amongst all the teams so that they all receive the same amount instead of it going to just the winners so a total value of around £250k is paid out to all teams in free tyres during the season

and also the price of tyres are subsidised by toca and much lower price than tcr tyres etc

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Robshillito1990

Don't like the truth it seems.

Love the truth just not aware of where this series is. Well worth a look - do tell

[coffinpilot]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

completely wrong

btcc has one of the best prize pools in the uk

a few years ago the teams asked toca that the prize pool is evenly distributed amongst all the teams so that they all receive the same amount instead of it going to just the winners so a total value of around £250k is paid out to all teams in free tyres during the season

and also the price of tyres are subsidised by toca and much lower price than tcr tyres etc

This is it! Okay TCR run on endurance tyres that last longer, but their bills have gone up with increased allocation. I asked some of the Goodyear guys at the test at Donington about BTCC prices - they said off the shelf to a private buyer it's over £300 per tyre. That would work out at over £1200 per race, or over £3600 per race day alone (£36,000 per car per year) if it was not subsidised. I think most drivers at the start of the year would take that!

As for the cost of 2,4 or 6 car teams, is the quote of £20,000 per year for hybrid still relevant from what was bandied about when it was launched?
If that's the case does it mean HARD would need to shell out £120,000 more this year than if they ran 6 cars in 2021? Is the struggles with money the reason why Cosworth were only fitting the Hybrid to their cars on Media Day and of the five that were there only two ran at the end of the day when it was chucking down and nobody else was out?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

As for the cost of 2,4 or 6 car teams, is the quote of £20,000 per year for hybrid still relevant from what was bandied about when it was launched?
If that's the case does it mean HARD would need to shell out £120,000 more this year than if they ran 6 cars in 2021?

£20,500 per car per year is what is currently reported. But to look at it as £120,000 more does not take into account how much each driver is bringing to the team.

A 6-car entry works out cheaper (per car) than a 2-car entry overall in terms of running costs.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

Is the struggles with money the reason why Cosworth were only fitting the Hybrid to their cars on Media Day and of the five that were there only two ran at the end of the day when it was chucking down and nobody else was out?

It was the same in 2022. There is a lead time between when the hybrid kit is order and when it is delivered, and Cosworth expect you to pay when the order is placed. Hard make the driver pay for the hybrid kit, to be fair they are probably not alone in that respect, and I assume they won't place the order until they have that money.

[Sodemo]

I guess TOCA "had to" go Hybrid in order to appease what manufacturer involvement there was left from the grid entrants, although thats only really Toyota and BMW now - but even those teams I doubt are full "works" teams. In that respect, I do wonder what the point of the hybrid element is, can anyone quote a sponsor or a team where they have said they wouldn't be here if it weren't for the hybrid? I don't see a queue of manufacturers at the BTCC door scrabbling to place an entry because the sport has now "gone hybrid".

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

can anyone quote a sponsor or a team where they have said they wouldn't be here if it weren't for the hybrid? I don't see a queue of manufacturers at the BTCC door scrabbling to place an entry because the sport has now "gone hybrid".

I think you would be hard pressed to find any team openly say they would not be there if hybrid was dropped, but many have said that it is a plus point when talking to prospective sponsors.

“The BTCC is renowned worldwide for being ahead of the game, Hybrid technology is the future on the automotive landscape and we at BTC Racing will embrace the future and fully supporting Alan Gow and the Championship”, said team director Richard Tait-Harris.

[Mike Harte]

crm, don't you think that comments like that are, in all truth, just PR speak?

In reality, to be truly ahead of the curve, and I don't advocate this for one second, TOCA would have gone all electric, like Sweden. The fact is that the UK will be, certainly in theory I would say at this time, banning the sale of cars with ICE technology from 2030 - that's juts six and a half years from now. Personally, I don't see that actually happening quite that soon, but to be ahead of the game, as Tait-Harris says, all electric would be the way to go.

I doubt I will be around then to just hear squealing tyres at a circuit, but you never know.

[Sodemo]

I think an all electric motorsport world would seriously affect my enjoyment of “motorsport”

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I think an all electric motorsport world would seriously affect my enjoyment of “motorsport”

Exactly, there's enough E-series out there for people to watch. Don't feel the need for every series to go electric. There's plenty of good alternatives to electric anyway.

[thetool]

But longer-term it (or some other as yet undiscovered option) is the only option. Fossil fuel powered cars are rapidly being eliminated in the UK. Of course it will probably take several more decades until they are totally gone, but in terms of what manufacturers want to promote and what is relevant to public, EV is the way the series will have to go.