[WEC] Peugeot exits Le Mans racing

[Mathew T]

There must be more going on then whats reported.... perhaps this is a sign of whats to come ???

[adam46]

Maybe they will use them as a test bed for Hybrid Systems or an F1 project like Toyota did with the GT-One(I know that won't happen.)

Honestly I have no idea, maybe they are afraid of showing themselves up, if a privateer team goes with 908's and dominates, it dosen't look good.

[Adam43]

They would love that. Less expense and still win!

Comedy theories here. I suspect they have decided to pull out to save some money. Any customer still requires some support and money. They may find it worthwhile, they may not. As Sportscar fans we are probably in the worse position to judge the benefit for Peugeot.

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by aneesh99

That's what I find the most confusing, why they feel the need to hold onto cars that will become obsolete? Ah well....

Originally Posted by Adam43

Comedy theories here............

Going in to the Peugeot museum?

[aneesh99]

Don't know how Peugeot can look worse than they already do, I don't think a lot of people are impressed with the departure (note this is targeted at Peugeot not Peugeot Sport).

Out of interest, anyone out in the Sebring? Did anyone actually get there before they pulled the plug?

[Adam43]

Spending lots of money on a Motorsport programme can also make you look bad if you are having to make cuts in the parent company.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by aneesh99

Don't know how Peugeot can look worse than they already do, I don't think a lot of people are impressed with the departure (note this is targeted at Peugeot not Peugeot Sport).

What looks like a winner in the eyes of race fans may not be a winner in the eyes of investors, dealers, the general public, governments who may provide assistance, and so forth. Peugeot has clearly been deficient in a few vital areas and they seemingly don't have the cash to address those as it is without making sacrifices. As far as sacrifices go, the race team is the easiest lamb to slaughter. On top of that, it gives a clear perception that the company is trying to do something to fix themselves.

Could they have set up a privateer-customer arm? I doubt that could make financial sense. I don't think there are privateers willing to spend that kind of money.

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by AGD

What looks like a winner in the eyes of race fans may not be a winner in the eyes of investors, dealers, the general public, governments who may provide assistance, and so forth. Peugeot has clearly been deficient in a few vital areas and they seemingly don't have the cash to address those as it is without making sacrifices. As far as sacrifices go, the race team is the easiest lamb to slaughter. On top of that, it gives a clear perception that the company is trying to do something to fix themselves.

Could they have set up a privateer-customer arm? I doubt that could make financial sense. I don't think there are privateers willing to spend that kind of money.

Pretty sure someone on MWM (might have been Graham) said that there were teams willing to run them. Maybe if they had announced their intentions earlier...

True, I mean, privateer budgets do kind of get trampled on by the factories, wouldn't be surprised if Audi's marketing and communication department was on par with Rebellion's entire programme

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Spending lots of money on a Motorsport programme can also make you look bad if you are having to make cuts in the parent company.

I dont see what the issue is however. Peugeot is an automotive company not a social club. Im sad that so many people lost there jobs but I dont think those people should criticize peugeot(if they have), for running a motorsport team neither should Peugeot feel bad about having a Motorsports team.

Motorsport and technology IS there business. thats what they do.

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by Articus

I dont see what the issue is however. Peugeot is an automotive company not a social club. Im sad that so many people lost there jobs but I dont think those people should criticize peugeot(if they have), for running a motorsport team neither should Peugeot feel bad about having a Motorsports team.

Motorsport and technology IS there business. thats what they do.

The problem IS that they're an automotive company and not a sports car outfit per se, their 'obligation' is to the core business, not a venture. To my knowledge and having read up on their financial situation in Q3 and Q4 2011, they were hardly breaking even on their main subsidiary Peugeot Citroën Automobiles SA. It's not just Peugeot Sport that have got the axe either, another 6000 jobs have and are being shed.

Intresting read here about the budgets of the 908 and WRC programmes:
http://translate.google.com/translat...-de-80me-49254

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by aneesh99

The problem IS that they're an automotive company and not a sports car outfit per se, their 'obligation' is to the core business, not a venture. To my knowledge and having read up on their financial situation in Q3 and Q4 2011, they were hardly breaking even on their main subsidiary Peugeot Citroën Automobiles SA. It's not just Peugeot Sport that have got the axe either, another 6000 jobs have and are being shed.

Intresting read here about the budgets of the 908 and WRC programmes:
http://translate.google.com/translat...-de-80me-49254

The WRC is cheaper, has sponsor support, has one of the best rally drivers in history(and French at that), uses a variation of a road car and is seen and much better known worldwide than the WEC.

For a cost and the benefit you get out of it, the WRC is a good deal.

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The WRC is cheaper, has sponsor support, has one of the best rally drivers in history(and French at that), uses a variation of a road car and is seen and much better known worldwide than the WEC.

For a cost and the benefit you get out of it, the WRC is a good deal.

Exactly. If figures are to be believed, Red Bull and Total cover about two-thirds of the entire WRC budget, more than one can say for the 908 programme, not sure how much Total and Polyphony Digital cover but it can't be substantial.

[kober]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The WRC is cheaper, has sponsor support, has one of the best rally drivers in history(and French at that), uses a variation of a road car and is seen and much better known worldwide than the WEC.

For a cost and the benefit you get out of it, the WRC is a good deal.

I don't think it's that much cheaper, e.g. Loeb's two year deal is allegedly worth 20 million euros, the cost of a WRC car is around 1 million. But yes, sponsors are there and his ninth title is in the making
WRC might be better known that WEC, but just recently Loeb complained that he's eight time world champion, he fought with another Frenchman (Ogier) for the title last year, and still no TV station in France was broadcasting this.

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by kober

I don't think it's that much cheaper, e.g. Loeb's two year deal is allegedly worth 20 million euros, the cost of a WRC car is around 1 million. But yes, sponsors are there and his ninth title is in the making
WRC might be better known that WEC, but just recently Loeb complained that he's eight time world champion, he fought with another Frenchman (Ogier) for the title last year, and still no TV station in France was broadcasting this.

I find it hard to believe that his contact for two years is worth 20 million euros, thats 10 million euros a year, in a championship that doesn't even get proper TV coverage.

Obviously since they're less out of pocket, PSA will let Citroen continue with their pointless shenanigans in a pointless championship

[AGD]

People have mentioned the PURE situation before. I saw this quote:

“On the other hand, there has been the news of Peugeot pulling out – and we were fairly inside that this might happen."

Pollock added that PURE would continue to monitor the situation with Peugeot because of the number of people who may now be looking for work who could add to the programme.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/176113/..._approach.html

I wonder how much Pollock knew ahead of time. Perhaps there are things working behind the scenes with PURE and Peugeot? Maybe Peugeot figured they could recover money by selling the facilities to PURE and also place some ex-employees and that's why the plug was pulled so quickly? Who knows.

[DeathOrGlory]

Originally Posted by AGD

People have mentioned the PURE situation before. I saw this quote:





http://www.crash.net/f1/news/176113/..._approach.html

I wonder how much Pollock knew ahead of time. Perhaps there are things working behind the scenes with PURE and Peugeot? Maybe Peugeot figured they could recover money by selling the facilities to PURE and also place some ex-employees and that's why the plug was pulled so quickly? Who knows.

Asiatech redux. Haven't we seen this before?

[cptkablamo]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The WRC is cheaper, has sponsor support, has one of the best rally drivers in history(and French at that), uses a variation of a road car and is seen and much better known worldwide than the WEC.

For a cost and the benefit you get out of it, the WRC is a good deal.

It mustn't be forgotten as well that Peugeot have a thriving customer rally program too (now with over 100 207 S2000 cars sold) so the learnings from Citroen probably go into the development and next generation of that car. What's more, no embarrassing losses in rally either.

I see their point in scrapping the 908 - if you are shedding 6000 jobs you are going to take a hell of a lot more heat for keeping the Le Mans program than cutting it. The decision making process may not have been sound but that's business.

I am gutted. Massive Peugeot fan. Have been for many years.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by aneesh99

Obviously since they're less out of pocket, PSA will let Citroen continue with their pointless shenanigans in a pointless championship

Demonstrating why we are not in good position judge.
By a lot of measurements sportscar racing is pointless too. In fact, probably more pointless! This includes the commercial measurement Peugeot have made.

[deggis]

WRC is not amazing currently (especially after the latest turn of events), but "a pointless championship that doesn't even get proper TV coverage" could be from the WEC description too.

[Guy Fawkes]

THANK YOU PEUGEOT FOR BEING AROUND THE PAST YEARS, FOR GIVING
PASSION AND EXCITEMENT (and kicking Audi's ass...)

THANK YOU FOR GIVING US THE FAST AND BEAUTIFUL PEUGEOT 908,
A CAR WHICH HAS ALREADY BECOME A LEGEND...

MERCI PEUGEOT-SPORT!! AUREVOIR ... (wherever and whenever this will be)

[Francis Albert]

Originally Posted by AGD

FWIW, I wonder if Pedro Lamy feels vindicated at all. Remember what he said after Le Mans?



http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...ance-7427.html

Perhaps Lamy was Tebowing after the announcement?

At least they didn't blame him for ending their endurance programme!

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

After last year's 24 hours of Le Mans, there was some discussion about the budget of Audi and Peugeot.

In the aftermatch of the yesterday's withdrawal, I just read that the Peugeot's budget was 75 million euro of which 20 million was funded by Total: http://www.tomorrownewsf1.com/peugeo...e-partir-26174

http://www.sportune.fr/sport-busines...-de-80me-49254 digs a bit deeper in the race budget of PSA.

According to the article, the motorsport budget of the PSA group is as follows:

• Peugeot 908 program: 55 million (PSA) + 20 million (Total) = 75 million
• Citroen WRC program: 15 million (PSA) + 10 million (Total) + 10 million (Red Bull) = 35 million
• salary of Loeb: 20 million for 2012 + 2013 (see here)

That means a total annual budget of 80 million of PSA.

From those numbers is clear why the board decided the cancel the endurance program and not the rally program.

BTW the article also states that Total funds the other French car manufacturer, Renault, with an equal amount of money (i.e., 30 million).

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by Francis Albert

At least they didn't blame him for ending their endurance programme!

Olivier Quesnel <-> Dave Richards?

[AGD]

Originally Posted by aneesh99

Olivier Quesnel <-> Dave Richards?

I'm a bit surprised that Richards hasn't come out and said that Peugeot left because they are running scared from the AMR-One!

[Rennen]

Originally Posted by Articus

Terrible news! Blow to Sportscar racing. Hope to see them return in 2013 or 2014 with a budget!

Well for Peugeot sake, I hope they seriously consider rebuilding the car image they have. Peugeot's are a very acquired taste. All peugeots look odd(I wont use ugly) except for the RCZ. Maybe they just look better in person? (Can anyone confirm Peugeots look better in person?) Hopefully with a fresh look on all there model theyll gain more sales and return. Theyre not going to sell much more with the current vehicle set. dont know how they are europe second strongest.

What a lot of nonsense! The 908 was FAR better looking and FAR more stylish looking than Audi's ugle duckling R18 which looks like a WW2 Bomber with it's wings plucked off!

As regards Peugoets road cars I had a 405 Estate for many years and my current 406 Estate Turbo Diesel has given me years of reliable motoring...and still looks good eleven years on!

As regards the Team withdrawing I feel sorry for the Drivers who all did such a great job and now have all been left high and dry without drives (except clever ole Wurz)

Audi must be laughing how easy it's going to be! At least their drivers won't have to crash so often just trying to keep up with those fabulous 908s! RIP 908!