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15 Oct 2016, 15:13 (Ref:3680234) | #251 | |||
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TCR is practically that, a much cheaper saloon / hatch series, probably a little slower than NGTC but about 1/3 of the cost. |
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15 Oct 2016, 18:41 (Ref:3680273) | #252 | |
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Speaking of which has anyone heard if there any plans to get the feeder series off the ground next year, as I seem to remember it was 'only' postponed.
It would be great to have one like that, like the old days of Group N, but it needs demand to take off |
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15 Oct 2016, 18:53 (Ref:3680280) | #253 | ||
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Alternatively it wouldn't be that hard to run NGTC cars to a lower spec as a support or feeder series within the Toca package. Not that hard to spec a sealed detuned/restricted Swindon engine. Perhaps drop down to 17" wheels for cheaper tyres and mandate spec sealed dampers etc. Rear wing could be reduced or eliminated completely to make them look a little bit lower league (like the differences in the various Ginetta series) and splitter removed to reduced lap times compared to BTCC. There's plenty of old shells that could be utilised and would provide a great market for old cars within a series with much lower running costs than the top tier due to more control parts unlike the idea of the BTEC series. |
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15 Oct 2016, 21:12 (Ref:3680307) | #254 | |
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I don't know where you get the idea that TCR is a third of the price of NGTC. It would be slightly cheaper... but as you say, slightly slower too.
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15 Oct 2016, 21:21 (Ref:3680308) | #255 | |
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I would've said that was correct... Maybe not for International series but for a like-for-like theoretical UK series running TCR machinery, certainly a lot cheaper. That's why TCR is the future to my mind. Or should I not believe what I read?
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16 Oct 2016, 06:37 (Ref:3680525) | #256 | |||
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16 Oct 2016, 10:38 (Ref:3680663) | #257 | |
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slow cornering speed means better racing
if you see the early super tourers and Group A they had narrow wheels and were spectacular to watch on their own sliding all over the place |
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16 Oct 2016, 11:40 (Ref:3680668) | #258 | ||
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Definitely agree that the cars aren't the best looking, they've gone a bit boy racer for my liking. I don't think the liveries help, the works cars of the 90s allowing nice and unfussy colour schemes without too many sponsors on them. |
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16 Oct 2016, 12:43 (Ref:3680676) | #259 | ||
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To be fair Dynamics and WSR have managed to keep the look of the road car bumpers whilst making them more aerodynamic and haven't resorted to the NASCAR-esk efforts of the Speedworks and Handy Avensis or the Motorbase Focus's (the debut bumpers with the road car vents looked much better than the smoothed over jelly molds they're running now). The widened vented front wings don't flow with the lines of the car cars with that boxy section aft of the front wheels. At least the S2000 wings used to fair back in before the doors. I don't know who was fully responsible for the concept design or rules concerning the aesthetics of NGTC but I suspect GPRM had a good contribution and from looking at their efforts with the GT4 GT86‘s it's clear to see they've got Stevie Wonder loose with the magic markers in their design dept! |
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16 Oct 2016, 13:52 (Ref:3680684) | #260 | |
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I don't get too hooked up on the looks as long as the racing is good and close!
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16 Oct 2016, 19:35 (Ref:3680738) | #261 | ||
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Most expensive TCR (Audi RS3) is 130k Euros) Cheapest new build NGTC is £200k then you need to fund an engine |
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17 Oct 2016, 10:41 (Ref:3680868) | #262 | |||
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In addition, I think the cars are too heavy. I fully understand that they probably can't get anywhere near the 975kg of the old super tourers, however id have thought getting down to around 1100kg would be achievable. Obviously with more weight, the cars will corner slower. I believe the current cars min weight is 1280kg, but im unsure if thats with or without driver, I think its without driver, so then you add another 80kg on top of that, so your approaching a 1400kg car. Again, as the above posters have stated, I completely agree. I'm not a fan of the plasticy looking body-kits. Some cars look better than others, but the majority, I think look a little over the top. I do wonder what will be next for the BTCC in terms of regs. I personally think something like the GT4 rules would be great to see, or failing that adopting the TCR rules, or a variant of TCR. Last edited by Sodemo; 17 Oct 2016 at 10:49. |
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17 Oct 2016, 10:46 (Ref:3680869) | #263 | |
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17 Oct 2016, 11:22 (Ref:3680877) | #264 | ||
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To make the series sustainable, the cars need to be cheapish to build, combined with cost effective to run and importantly to repair and with manageable engine costs. To be honest I think that TOCA have managed this well and made the racing close with a wide variety of 'makes' on track. Because the cars are bespoke to the BTCC this also keeps cars in the series to filter down the grid before they finally go off to Britcar or wherever to live out the rest of their days. |
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17 Oct 2016, 11:24 (Ref:3680879) | #265 | ||
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The roly-poly cornering look isn't ideal, but it's certainly fast. A friend of mine that works has worked as an engineer for various IMSA and Indycar teams (and because I supply him with good whisky, has given me pointers on my car setup) has always said "the fastest setup is the softest you can run the car without actually lifting the inside tires." It sounds contrarian, and is definitely not what most drivers (especially in open wheel cars tend to prefer, especially if they've come from karting), but the data doesn't lie in the end.
As a driver you want the car to respond RIGHT NOW, but at the very limit, you have to give up some response for greater overall grip. Me, of course, I just toss it in the corner with a blur of hands and elbows and hope I come out the other side, but that's more a lack of talent than technique Steve |
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17 Oct 2016, 18:56 (Ref:3680961) | #266 | |
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speaking of Team HARDs Volvos from unicorn land I just remembered something
does anyone know why nobody brought a Group A Volvo 240 Turbo in the BTCC during the 80s ? it was a very competitive in 85-86 ETCC seasons and think it could have done well in BTCC up to 1987 you can see here how competittive it was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF8oaqURlx8 |
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17 Oct 2016, 19:46 (Ref:3680970) | #267 | ||
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17 Oct 2016, 21:01 (Ref:3680980) | #268 | ||
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From Rob Austin's end of season blog:
"I am now working with the guys to put our commercial packages together and to implement our winter development programme. We are also hopeful that we might have a big announcement to make at the ASI show in January as well." Second car, surely? |
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18 Oct 2016, 08:29 (Ref:3681049) | #269 | ||
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"The shell has had some cosmetic repairs as you would expect from any BTCC car but is very straight and well maintained." That car is like Trigger's Broom. https://www.racecarsdirect.com/Adver...-btcc-ngtc-car |
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18 Oct 2016, 08:44 (Ref:3681053) | #270 | |
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Needed a bit more than cosmetic repair from that Brands paddock hill crash....
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18 Oct 2016, 09:09 (Ref:3681057) | #271 | ||
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Bit of a shame that the Audi is no longer on the grid, ive always relished the RWD vs FWD yin and yang battles, for me its an integral part of real touring car racing. Thankfully we have Subaru and BMW still here holding up the flag for RWD.
I personally would love to see AWD allowed again, although the weight penalties would have to be excessive. |
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18 Oct 2016, 09:50 (Ref:3681062) | #272 | ||
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18 Oct 2016, 10:48 (Ref:3681067) | #273 | ||
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Given the excellent late season form that Rob Austin showed, I think he would do well to stay put in the Avensis.
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18 Oct 2016, 11:39 (Ref:3681078) | #274 | ||
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18 Oct 2016, 11:39 (Ref:3681079) | #275 | ||
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My thought as well, they finally found the magic button in that car. With a new car they'd have to start all over again?
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