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28 Feb 2018, 21:09 (Ref:3804714) | #251 | ||||||
The Honourable Mallett
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Hi Adam,
Good questions and thus the reply has taken time to compose. Quote:
All through the fifties there were close battles for the title but we know Fangio won four times. Almost Schumacher dominance. Yet the key to those races was that you could see the drivers working the wheel. It was exciting. Take the sixties and the success of Lotus who, with Jim Clark took two championships and with G Hill one. Here there were two drivers who won four WDCs during the decade. Also Lotus won with Rindt (Posthumously). Yet Jim Clark is revered by many enthusiasts. As is Schumacher. Nobody complained at the team’s or the drivers’ dominance. Again the cars were alive and you could see the drivers fighting with them. Then in the seventies, once again Lotus and Ferrari shared most of the spoils. The cars, by now sported big wings and big fat slicks. And they danced. Ronnie Petersen sideways is an abiding memory in anything he drove. He wasn’t a champion (sadly) but he was always worth watching. But he wasn’t the only driver to make the cars slide and dance; Emmo, Hunt, Lauda et al, were all worth watching. Later in the 70s we got the likes of Jones and Andretti (returning) who took the fight to the leaders, and in Andretti’s case, won the WDC. In the 1980s we got those fantastic turbos and awesome power with ground effect. Those cars ran on rails but they were soon legislated against, so we got active suspension. Although McLaren dominated the decade with five out of ten WDCs there was no complaining. Williams won a couple too. Awesome cars and if they looked a little bit more stable than previously, we could see how difficult they were to drive. The chassis used to shake and vibrate due to the power. Quote:
The Schumacher dominance began around 2000 but he’d already won two WDC’s by then. However there were plenty of others who won in the 90’s and the competition was pretty close. We forget that there were five seasons in the 2000s when Schumacher didn’t win. We did have two tyre companies at this time which meant the cars were not all set up for the same levels of grip. Then, in 2009 we got KERs. All of a sudden cars were running odd laps in order to build up the necessary energy for a quick burst. How daft was that? Then to make matters worse in 2011 we got DRS! As if the only thing that should happen in Formula One was passing . Thus they invented a system that penalised the guy who was busting his nuts to lead and win! At the same time tyres became an issue. They were designed to fall apart and this they did so all of a sudden despite using KERs or DRS to get in front, the winner was the one with the right set of tyres on at the right time. And the cars? They were running on rails, controlled from the pits with minimal driver input, no gear levers, no left foot braking, steering kickback dampened etc. So I was wrong it started getting tedious ten years ago! Quote:
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28 Feb 2018, 22:01 (Ref:3804739) | #252 | ||
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Thank you Peter. How true.
I have no answer... To me, the only way you make it exciting is to take the gizmos off.. As I have said many times...give them a left hand gear stick and a foot clutch... Who wants a paddle gear change on a Fiat 600 when you go to Europcar? |
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28 Feb 2018, 22:14 (Ref:3804741) | #253 | |
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I think you and Akra are talking past each other.
I think the point is that tech companies WILL sponsor Formula E because it is cheap. Which leads to the notion that these same companies will NOT sponsor Formula 1 because it is expensive and maybe not viewed as not attractive in the right way (not green enough, speaking to the wrong demographics, etc.). Richard |
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28 Feb 2018, 22:48 (Ref:3804750) | #254 | ||
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Peter is largely spot on, Adam makes a decent counter argument.
I boil it down to this, answers (not) on a postcard please... How many times in the last 30 years has there been multiple winners in a single season? During those years was the actual racing good with more overtaking? Were the seasons where the dominant team/car had both drivers going for it rather than a protected no.1 and no.2 scenario more interesting? Do people remember the battles or how many times the title race was decided at the last race mostly? i suspect some will say the seasons when there was a lot of winners and top racing was when there was a freak occurrence/anomaly in the regs. That maybe true to an extent. Tyres and aero might be the biggest culprits? |
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1 Mar 2018, 01:04 (Ref:3804781) | #255 | ||
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Aren't there just too many GPs and the 'magic', if you will, of a country hosting it's own race is going out the window?
I used too look forward to seeing how a season would unfold but with so many races and a season that now goes through to the end of November, it just seems like overkill. Just a sausage machine, churning out race after race. The lack of actual racing just compounds the issue. |
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1 Mar 2018, 02:00 (Ref:3804790) | #256 | ||
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Great post Peter. I agree totally with what you are saying.
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1 Mar 2018, 10:05 (Ref:3804856) | #257 | |
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I think there are too many races, and there are quite a few that aren't really that worth going to, as there is hardly anyone interested in from those countries coming to watch. And I feel too many gizmos to spice up racing, they just need simple cars that can challenge and excite at the same time
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1 Mar 2018, 14:28 (Ref:3804919) | #258 | ||
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Quote:
Right now it costs far less to develop, build and race an FE car than an F1 car - but the roadmap for FE eventually frees up more and more room to change the current spec parts. Then costs will rise, they'll need more money, and that will also drive up the cost of sponsorship. Maybe eventually the two series will reach an equilibrium! |
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1 Mar 2018, 14:50 (Ref:3804922) | #259 | ||
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Quote:
Note: I have no idea what actual rate cards are for FE and F1. I am just taking on faith what has been reported in this thread that FE is significantly cheaper. Richard |
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To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
1 Mar 2018, 17:44 (Ref:3804971) | #260 | |
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Because you can spend, for example, £1m on Formula E to get a sticker on a car that nobody will see, or spend £1m on Facebook advertising and be on a half a billion mobile phones.
Tech companies have literally built their own advertising systems online. There will be exceptions, but largely they don’t need places to advertise. They use systems they’ve created, or more relevant systems such as Google Adsense and Facebook. FE will attract traditional sponsors due to the low price point. However it does need to address the low viewer numbers too. |
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1 Mar 2018, 18:21 (Ref:3804980) | #261 | |||
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I can't say I've noticed Tech companies building their own online advertising systems, they seem to use whatever is available to other companies. On this Ten-Tenths page for example, there was an advert for electric guitars, now it's an advert for an IT training company. I agree with you there, FE will attract traditional sponsors due to the low price ut I think to the detrement of F1. |
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1 Mar 2018, 18:52 (Ref:3804988) | #262 | ||
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Quote:
Google AdSense is possibly the largest advertising network on the web. Facebook is no longer a social media site, it's an advertising platform (that's where it makes its money). All of these pages are listed as some sort of business and Facebook is constantly putting on promotional offers to get you to use their targeted advertising. Because theRACINGLINE.net is listed as a business on Facebook, I get offers every day. "For $5 you can reach 1000 new people", that sort of thing. And it'll choose those people via AI too, so it's super effective. Twitter isn't much different either - the default Twitter site has sponsored and promoted tweets in the feed now. You will get companies like SAP advertising, probably in both. They've been involved in F1 for ages. And you'll see the odd Microsoft sticker for their business developments, rather than the consumer. But the original vision for the tech companies was we'd have Google and Microsoft being title sponsors to replace the tobacco companies, and that hasn't happened. The web has become a far better platform to advertise on than a car, and much more cost effective - especially since it involves AI driven targeted positions. If Facebook will charge $5 per 1000 people, then you'll get a million people for $5000. Or you can get a million British TV viewers on Sky for $40m. That's a gross simplification, obviously, but the numbers don't stack in F1s favour. |
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1 Mar 2018, 19:31 (Ref:3804995) | #263 | ||
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Quote:
what's interesting about liberty's shift in focus and attitude is that they're aiming for a different target audience, who have different attitudes and are interested in different brands and products. the lack of sponsors for years was a good demonstration that f1's traditional market had been rinsed. a younger attitude from f1 will help the teams capture a different type of money, and branch into different types of sponsorship. i'm thinking how a lot of the fashion industry is now really advertising by association - people buy products based on seeing it all over social media styled by real people. how will f1 get in on that? |
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1 Mar 2018, 19:44 (Ref:3804999) | #264 | ||
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Quote:
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1 Mar 2018, 19:56 (Ref:3805003) | #265 | |||
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
1 Mar 2018, 20:16 (Ref:3805011) | #266 | |||
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strategies for marketing are evolving too quickly to say what the future will hold. no doubt many companies will look for a mix of traditional advertising as well as online stuff with some currently doing more of one then the other.
so we are certainly in a transition period but i do think the trend is pretty clear...companies are moving away from traditional advertising spaces. Quote:
F1 went down a different path many years ago when they priced out regular consumer product companies in favour of more lucrative B2B deals with multinationals to which most viewers and consumers have little access to their products and/or have knowledge about. this Mclaren deal with DELL (who i thought went bankrupt years ago) is an example of this. they went out of (or are going out of) business because they built useless but overly expensive computers and had terrible customer services. brand association is an important factor but somewhere along the line F1 sort of became a billboard for companies that i, as a consumer, dont want to be associated with. i can understand why forward looking companies dont want to branded by association with cigarettes, unhealthy energy drinks, foreclosed banks, failing tech companies etc. forget number of viewers issues, i think there is an argument to be made that F1 in and of itself is not a healthy adverting platform because of the brand association it has made over the years. |
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1 Mar 2018, 20:48 (Ref:3805017) | #267 | ||
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Quote:
Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk |
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1 Mar 2018, 23:02 (Ref:3805055) | #268 | ||
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My original thought of 'tech companies' was more about the tech manufacturers, such as Samsung or LG, as opposed to those who sell specialised eqpt.
So probably best viewed as consumer tech? |
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2 Mar 2018, 01:40 (Ref:3805078) | #269 | ||
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F1's demographics are very strange, both massive and hardcore.
Several advertisers are luxury consumer products (Martini, Rolex). Others are car products (Shell, Pirelli, manufacturers of course). Others are business services (NEC, SAP, Randstad). In any case, putting a logo on an F1 car or a billboard isn't the same as putting a logo on a random website. Being in F1 is a brand message. |
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2 Mar 2018, 02:36 (Ref:3805088) | #270 | ||
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
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Doesn't matter how many logo's or stickers you put on a pig...its still a pig.
When F1 put on decent racing thier target market will watch it. |
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2 Mar 2018, 03:03 (Ref:3805093) | #271 | ||
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2 Mar 2018, 03:12 (Ref:3805094) | #272 | |||
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2 Mar 2018, 03:16 (Ref:3805095) | #273 | ||
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Quote:
Yup, they need to remember at the end of the day it is a sport, and the sport is racing. Well its hard to see the pig if its hiding behind a wall.. Armco So you'd better take your audience with you! Spot the mistake. |
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2 Mar 2018, 08:48 (Ref:3805144) | #274 | |
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F1 is a brand image. And that's why you won't see big tech companies in as title sponsors. Google, Facebook and Microsoft don't need to brand themselves with racing cars. And other huge companies such as Rackspace don't care about branding to the public - they're selling to other massive tech companies.
If tech companies were going to come to F1 as title sponsors, they'd already be here. That ship has sailed. |
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2 Mar 2018, 09:41 (Ref:3805153) | #275 | ||
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Seems like a recipe for a disaster. |
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