The Spa 6Hour 2010

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Hall

Bit of a corny comment Simon.

Jeremy you should have realized it would be lost on a dyslexic like me - I only sell bonds because I couldnt spell equities!!

[terence]

Originally Posted by esper

okay!!! leave the cars at home

Let's not get carried away Esper!

[terence]

Originally Posted by esper

what is a stressed Spa???????????????????

One with a dodgy bridge at Stavelot?

[zefarelly]

have they finished painiting over the cracks yet ? Eddy?

[DaveGT6]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Hall

Appendix J in 1965 listed the maximum capacity of fuel tanks for any given engine size for competition touring and GT cars. So 1601cc to 2000cc had a maximum of 110 litres..

Whoa - where did that come from? I thought I was limited to the capacity in the homologation papers. Searched FIA website and App J is very limited and couldn't find anything relating to tanks other than as per production capacity. Obviously I have missed something here - is there a more comprehensive archive of App J available?

[simon drabble]

Appendix J article 269 lists the maximum fuel tank to engine size. 1600-2000cc are listed as 110 litres.
Wing Commander Mackenzie replaced his Turner GT in 1963 with the Turner 1650 Cosworth car 444 RAR which he raced in the 63 Goodwood TT , He then sold to Simon Scrimgeour for the 64 season , who raced in the 64 TT and 64 ring 1000kms , This car would have complied to FIA Appx J regs for such events.

[Ben Shuckburgh]

Greetings all - new boy here.

Simon - hello - re the fuel tank size, where can I find that info? I'm interested in what the max is for my Falcon (4.7).

As a first timer at the 6 hr this year in said Falcon I must admit it disheartens me a bit to read (if I've understood correctly) in this thread that the field is full of "iffy" cars. Is there any point showing up with a straight car and hoping to do well?

[simon drabble]

Ben good to see you here! The saloons are not listed but I reckon that 2 hours running time should be the target. Don't worry about iffy cars as its all about finishing and lots don't! You have an extremely competent co driver and you are no slouch - I reckon you have a very good chance of a saloon podium (but that is rapidly becoming the norm for you these days!!!!)

[Ben Shuckburgh]

Oh Simon you old flatterer you. Thanks for the welcome. I think Ludo and I are joined by Bill Wyckham for the 6hrs. V excited about it - suits my background in enduros - Not used to 20min races!

[Ben Shuckburgh]

......and as we seem to use about 1 litre per minute at race pace, i'm thin king we'll fit a new 150ltr tank.

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by Ben Shuckburgh

......and as we seem to use about 1 litre per minute at race pace, i'm thin king we'll fit a new 150ltr tank.

I could sell you a bowser with wide wheels Do you have a tow bar?

[Ben Shuckburgh]

Originally Posted by SAMD

I could sell you a bowser with wide wheels Do you have a tow bar?

I was thinking in-flight refuelling from the air via StratoTanker

[zefarelly]

1L per minute is te norm for septics I believe, Falcon can win class, the Kenedys did it before every man and his dog joined the V8 brigade . . . they where clever enough to treat it as an endurance race rather than 6 sprints, didn't need brakes or tyres, used less fuel and went for consistency and reliability, which they achieved. wouldn't work now though

[Ben Shuckburgh]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

1L per minute is te norm for septics I believe, Falcon can win class, the Kenedys did it before every man and his dog joined the V8 brigade . . . they where clever enough to treat it as an endurance race rather than 6 sprints, didn't need brakes or tyres, used less fuel and went for consistency and reliability, which they achieved. wouldn't work now though

Interested in your view Mr Z. I'd planned to follow the "endurance strategy" as above. 2 stops, 3x2 hour stints at modest(ish) pace. Why not now?
(not sure if I'm everyman or the dog!)

[morninggents]

The Ford Falcon homologation papers I have show homologated tank capacity at 102.2 litres.
Not sure if general App K regs allow more freedom for tank size.

[simon drabble]

The saloon cup winning car last year was a Mustang doing 3.15/20 laps showing its all about being there at the end! Bill was the hot shoe in that car so I reckon you have good council!!

[zefarelly]

Ben, I think when the Kennedys did it they where lapping low 3:20's, 3 x 2hour drives, possibly 2 fuel stops? as far as I was aware homoogated tank sizes are supposed to be adhered to, but so are many other things

they where the only Falcon there . . and one of few V8's, as opposed to now where Mustangs are leaving GT40's for dead ?????? lapping under 3m ?

[Ben Shuckburgh]

Thanks - Mustangs beating GT40's does sound a little err "unlikely".

I guess I'll have to see what times we do when we get there - having not driven there before - and set a conservative rev limit for ourselves.

I am quite used to and like long races where you ned to use your brain from my years on bikes racing enduros and desert stuff - all the prizes are at the end etc. But still on a steep learning curve and appreciate the advice.

V excited to race on one of the great circuits of the world.

[Dinkel]

2009:

Best Mustang was the Herzog / Rosse Shelby lapping a best 2:53 and finished 6th. Sounded the bits although revving a bit high made me wonder.

Last years P20 was a Notchback (with Wykeham at the helm) with a 3:08 best lap. Very well driven car that.

Ahlers Mog V8 did steady 3:06s and reached a final 11th.

I saw - one of my fav 6 Hrs cars - Wills' Comet family hack get to p12 before unfortunate break down. It is my guess that a sensible driven V8 saloon lapping 3:05s could finish top 10.

Gentleman start your bets!

[simon drabble]

the Wykham Mustang had a 3.08 lap when Bill was driving but I believe I am right saying the other two drivers were more in the 3.15 area. As the saloons are competing for a seperate podium there is no point busting a gut to go for 3.05 laps and drop off - better to set a sensible pace and play the long game.

[Jeremy Hall]

When looking at last years times you also need to see which cars were in the Eau Rouge trophy-their times don't count as far as the Six Hours is concerned.

[Ben Shuckburgh]

I take it the Eau Rouge Trophy is for non FIA cars?

Sounds like I have a good teammate in Bill - he claims Brawn-esque tactical nous so I'll let him tell me how fast to (try to) go.

Am I right in thinking that the fastback Mustangs of GT350 type are in a separate class to us in the touring car class?

[zefarelly]

With a sensible hat on (not often I know) I always look at the 'fastest lap' times of the final results . . . when you see a strong finishing position from a car which doesn't do blistering laps you know its a reliable consistent and matched driving team . . . well managed as well . . . non co-operative paying co drivers have been known to pull 9k on 4 pots and blow the headgasket after 4 1/2 hrs . . . ok it was 5s a lap quicker than average, but they finished with Roger in the Comet, elvis style . . . way down!

[Eddy V]

Sorry, but I've been out of action for a few days. Stupid little bugs.

Racing has resumed at Spa, as most will know by now. But I haven't got a clue if the tunnel is ready.
I know they were saying trucks would come and go through Blanchimont gate, before and after the event.

[rogerwills]

Ben, there is a touring car cup and the GT fastback Mustangs are not in this. It is dominated by Mustangs, Falcons etc. We led this with the Cyclone last year until a small problem (block split in two....) put us out. We only ran the Cyclone as a back up as the Bizzarrini had an engine issue a week before. Not sure what the plan is for this year. Unfinished business in Bizza for sure but huge fun in the Cyclone as well and I think you guys need some competition for the Touring Car cup!