Nissan LMP1 Discussion

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by Acid09

It really seems like Nissan has bitten off more than they could chew.

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

This car was meant to shake things up. All they've done so far is shake their car to bits causing them to miss the first quarter of the season.

It wouldn't be that embarrassing if they hadn't talked themselves up so much and trash talked the other manufacturers.

Originally Posted by TF110

Toyota had a crash before they could enter. And they never trash talked or bragged about being this or that. Difference is Toyota stepped up to enter the wec early thanks to Peugeot dropping out. Nissan otoh, confirmed their entries, talked up a big game and now look, they're all the talk for the wrong reasons.

I think back in Japan they should have reined in all the hype and had a more realistic approach to their PR instead of trying to act like "bad boys" or whatever term they're using. From the get, I thought they should hold their tongue.

Originally Posted by supermario21

Toyota also didn't set the 2012 bar high, yet they gave Audi everything they could handle for 6 hours. Heck reliability didn't even knock the cars out, as the 8 had that freak accident with the Ferrari and the 7 ran into the stupid DW which started a cascade of problems...

Nissan was talking about winning this year lol...

Indeed.

Pie in the face for all the Nissan goons talking up big game and putting the other three down. I thought the bad-boys were supposed to come and steal the show? Talk is cheap these days and i blame that nitwit Andy Palmer. At the start of the season i was anticipating the moment the Toyota will lap the Nissan. Now it looks like the only challenge Nissan will have is from the GT classes. Hopefully they will learn a lesson in humility and and come back humble.

[ss_collins]

I would see this as the same boat that Honda is in with F1, but in LMP1 Nissan can go off and test a lot. McLaren can't so we see all the trouble. Nissan probably want to avoid that and have all their problems in private, the current generation of top level competition cars (F1 & LMP1) are devilish complex just getting em to run is a challenge.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Bummer......this is starting to stink like the zeod project.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

They don't have one.

I don't tend to think having a bunch of supplier issues says anything positive for the competency of the program. The way they structured it with where the cars are being designed, where they're being built, where they're being run out of, and then where they're actually being raced seemed like enough trouble for an LMP2. (remember people are calling Haas a moron just for wanting to have an American F1 team at all)

They can't make it to Spa? Well it sure doesn't help when your cars are being built 5600 miles away at a location 1700 miles from your race shop. Meanwhile for Toyota Motorsport it's a 134km cruise down the road, they could go home every night.

They have all three built. One is a mule. The other two are on the road as showcars right now.

[TF110]

Show cars? lol, waiting for the "all show, no go" crowd to turn up with that.

[nkoske]

Originally Posted by Nissan ZEOD RC Shoots for First All-Electric Lap in Qualifying - June 11, 2014

“This is everything that Garage 56 should be,” he added. “It’s difficult, innovative, pushing boundaries; it might work and it might not. It’s brilliant. Why other manufacturers don’t get involved, I don’t know.”

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/leman...in-qualifying/

Originally Posted by Cox (Nissan): We’ll Refocus and Carry on Testing in the U.S. - March 17, 2015

“It’s unfortunate but we’re pushing the boundaries here,” he said. “It’s one of those things. We’re happy that we’ll be ready for Le Mans.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/c...ng-in-the-u-s/

Different time, same story. Guess what Nissan, Porsche, Audi, and Toyota are pushing boundaries too. Difference is they set attainable goals for their projects.

Philosophically are you truly pushing boundaries if you never have a success? I mean the point of developing race cars is to win races right?

I guess we'll see what happens.

[Mal]

I don't see why some people are so quick to slag Nissan off. I am glad they chose to build a P1 and glad they chose to be different. A six week delay is hardly the end of the world. A little patience is the order of the day in my opinion.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by Mal

I don't see why some people are so quick to slag Nissan off. I am glad they chose to build a P1 and glad they chose to be different. A six week delay is hardly the end of the world. A little patience is the order of the day in my opinion.

Hey, this is an improvement.

We can go back a year in this thread and there were people promising to eat their hat, or something or other, if Nissan really built a P1.

Nissan's built a P1. It meets the rules. It's got some problems to work through, but it exists.

Whatever happened to those folks who declared it would never happen? <crickets>

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

They have all three built. One is a mule. The other two are on the road as showcars right now.

If the tubs can't be homologated they don't have any race cars. I'd hardly call that fully built and running either way.

We're at the point where the GT500 GT-R (at this rate even the 2013 one) could completely embarrass the LM, either way. If they crap the bed at Le Mans I think if I were them I'd withdraw from the rest of the season just to not have to show my face at Fuji.

Originally Posted by miatanut

Nissan's built a P1. It meets the rules.

Apparently it doesn't, actually.

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

We're at the point where the GT500 GT-R (at this rate even the 2013 one) could completely embarrass the LM, either way. If they crap the bed at Le Mans I think if I were them I'd withdraw from the rest of the season just to not have to show my face at Fuji.

The GT500s were faster than the Rebellions last year and they've gotten even faster this year, maybe they should just ask the ACO for a waiver and run the GT500 GTR instead

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by nkoske

Different time, same story. Guess what Nissan, Porsche, Audi, and Toyota are pushing boundaries too. Difference is they set attainable goals for their projects.

Philosophically are you truly pushing boundaries if you never have a success? I mean the point of developing race cars is to win races right?

I guess we'll see what happens.

How so?

Aerodynamically those cars are virtually the same. The Nissan is a completely different concept.

As far as not pushing boundaries if you never have a success, I would like to remind people of the Apple Newton. People laughed at it. They said 'Why would I ever want that? I have a Day-Timer" They made fun of the handwriting recognition. A few years later there were Palm Pilots all over the place and with increasing cell phone use, the functions got implemented in the Blackberry. Now everybody has the same stuff and more in their iPhone, Samsung, or whatever, but back in 1993, a handheld computer? "Why would I want that?"

It's not unusual for the first of a new idea that later dominates to be a failure. Many of the Chaparrals were failures, but the ideas they contained later achieved wide adoption.

If Nissan really has found something, we'll see an FE/FWD entry from Audi a couple years from now. Audi just cares about Le Mans, and it's a great concept for Le Mans.

At this point, I would say it's way to early to judge it not a success. If it doesn't win a race all year, that my not mean it's a failure. The true measure is if the concept is adopted by others later.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

Apparently it doesn't, actually.

Care to elaborate on that?

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

They have all three built. One is a mule. The other two are on the road as showcars right now.

Smiley missing ?

The showcars are definitely not built or designed to be raced. Just some lightweight construction shaped like the "real" car with four wheels attached to it.

Having three cars ready for the LM Test Day will already be quite a challenge. And that assumes having sorted out all the technical issues. What's the point of building three cars for LM if none of the them can run reliably and produce some decent performance ?

The ZEOD RC was already objectively a failure, but they could at least save face by claiming to have run a full lap at LM in pure electric mode. What is going to save Nissan's day if none of the three cars can run reliably at LM ?

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by miatanut

Care to elaborate on that?

The failed crash test

[CTD]

Something hit me this morning in the shower (and it wasn't the shower head).
Nissan's efforts really isn't that bad when we compare outside of the WEC.
Look at Honda in F1 with McLaren.
Honda has been more time (some say two years) developing their V6 Turbo Hybrid engine, which is currently failing massively, even though the regulations make both the Hybrid system and engine configuration very standart with a lot of standart components (like the ECU).
Nissan, has spend just a little more than a year developing a V6 Twin Turbo engine, together with a new hybrid system (although outsourced), a radical new approach to a LMP1 engine layout, with a new aerodynamic concept.
And this is not taking budget into consideration, where Honda is likely operating with a much larger budget.

I think we are all blinded by how flawlessly it has been for Toyota and Porsche to enter with a LMP1.

[YorkshireLad]

Originally Posted by CTD

Something hit me this morning in the shower (and it wasn't the shower head).
Nissan's efforts really isn't that bad when we compare outside of the WEC.
Look at Honda in F1 with McLaren.
Honda has been more time (some say two years) developing their V6 Turbo Hybrid engine, which is currently failing massively, even though the regulations make both the Hybrid system and engine configuration very standart with a lot of standart components (like the ECU).
Nissan, has spend just a little more than a year developing a V6 Twin Turbo engine, together with a new hybrid system (although outsourced), a radical new approach to a LMP1 engine layout, with a new aerodynamic concept.
And this is not taking budget into consideration, where Honda is likely operating with a much larger budget.

I think we are all blinded by how flawlessly it has been for Toyota and Porsche to enter with a LMP1.

Totally agree with you, it's just the fact Cox and Palmer hyped it up so much, been led by all the PR, videos etc.

Personally I'm just frustrated because I've been looking forward to seeing this car in the flesh, only to be let down.
Probably the same with a lot people, easy quick fix is to slag the car off.

[rdjones]

I have to say I am also really sad that the car wouldn't be at Silverstone as I was looking forward to seeing it. However as Sam said earlier these new LMP1 cars are very complex bits of kit and they need to get it right before they go and race.

As for the PR Nissan must be doing something right because we are all talk about the car and them. What you have to remember Nissan doing things in very different way to everyone else with all there social media interaction etc. You don't see Audi doing do you....

[Pandemonium]

Now skipping this Silversonte doesn´t feel like such a shame for me. Will be in the next one for sure!!! Still live covarege in the app will be awesome.

[littleman]

I don't wish to offend our friends across the Pond, but I'm really surprised Nissan decided to base their LMP1 program outside of Europe. When was the last time a US based project won Le Mans outright?

The Japanese usually involve an expert European team to run their cars (Toyota is using all the ex Peugeot guys) as have many other manufacturers in the past.

Jaguar - Walkinshaw, Audi & Porsche - Joest, even Mazda used Alan Docking.

Nissan should have recruited someone like Oreca etc,etc to run the program.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by CTD

I think we are all blinded by how flawlessly it has been for Toyota and Porsche to enter with a LMP1.

Stop stealing my thunder CTD, I said exactly this a whole week ago

However the problems have been racking up at an alarming rate. While it's premature to write Nissan off at the moment, I don't think it's unreasonable to be disappointed even at this early stage. I also don't think it's correct just to give Nissan a "free pass" for this season and then expect something competitive to turn up next year. They don't have to win or even make a podium but I would expect to see some form of progress related to pace (chiefly speed and acceleration) and reliability.

Going back to the Toyota comparison, they stepped into the big hole left by Peugeot. Nissan('s PR department) have dug this big hole all on their own.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by rdjones

As for the PR Nissan must be doing something right because we are all talk about the car and them. What you have to remember Nissan doing things in very different way to everyone else with all there social media interaction etc. You don't see Audi doing do you....

Have to agree with this.

I literally cannot fathom how people can slate a company for having the audacity to try and actually tell people what they are doing.

To be clear this is completely different to company bosses making statements about ambitions, levels of competitiveness etc. You'll ultimately get judged on that stuff - but honestly I'd rather teams were up front and honest about their aims - when you've got Porsche on record as saying they want to achieve a podium at Le Mans this year. Come on Porsche, no you don't just want a podium.

Putting the sportscar message out in front of Super Bowl audience. Giving journalists (and by extension fans) in depth access to your car. These aren't things to throw back in Nissan's face. They should be applauded. They are ultimately doing huge amounts for the visibility of the sport we love, and breaking ground that even Audi couldn't.

Another argument you can always pull out - Nissan didn't have to spend money going LMP1 racing. It takes a certain amount of balls to go after the team's they are in competition with. It's sad to see so many people seemingly taking joy in their issues.

[joeb]

Mike Fuller has had a little bit more info on the Nissan on his website:

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsmarch15.html

It seems it wasn't a motor mount exactly that failed, and it also seems that the ACO had a part to play in deciding how the KERS attaches to the monocoque.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mal

I don't see why some people are so quick to slag Nissan off. I am glad they chose to build a P1 and glad they chose to be different. A six week delay is hardly the end of the world. A little patience is the order of the day in my opinion.

[rdjones]

Just an aside, I see from DSC that Jann Mardenborough is going to do a full season of GP3 with Carlin this year as well as his drive in the P1 car.

[MagVanisher]

Is the LMP1 program having a bad start already? While Nissan will miss a few rounds in the WEC, I'm hoping that they're ready for Le Mans!