ERC Lydden Hill 2009, what's the news?

[WJM]

Despite all the horror stories on this forum the spectator areas were actually good enough but small for the crowd. The facilities have improved a lot the past year. Luckily the weather was great because if the infamous umbrellas had to be deployed, I think there would have been riots!

On Monday we were at the entry of the hairpin. You could clearly see that some drivers were afraid to take risks at overtaking. The only drivers in div1 who were really racing for positions and not gambling for the jokerlap were Hunsbedt and Evans. No surprise that they both lost there races.
Worst example was the B-final. Hunsbedt was working his way up the field, already passing Eklund. He was gaining on Doran but no battle because the Fiesta dives in the joker So Hunsbedt leading, takes the jokerlap and then out of nowhere comes this red Skoda to win??? I hate that so much.
Perhaps the only bigger joke in Rallycross is Division 2. Only one serious car and a lot of mechanical problems. Somebody put this class down please.

All in all, Lydden is still a nicer track then Maasmechelen, Mayenne, Kerlabo and probably a few others in the Championship.

[WJM]

Originally Posted by Benny1664

Did I hear the RX150s were there? How did they get on, good grids/racing?

They were only doing demo runs, no racing. I think there were about 7 or 8 of them.

[schanche]

First of all what can I say but I have just got back from a fantastic weekend of racing glorious weather! Facilities vastly improved! Not since my last trip to France have I seen toilet attendants on hand cleaning up all the mess from spectators in the various WC's around the circuit and in France you pay for this service. Free Grandstand seating both days, entertainment for the little ones and the cream of Europe back at Lydden.Now the downside to this is coming back on to the forum from a break away to see so called Rallycross Fans moaning about why they cant stand in there usual spot, poor viewing around the circuit, joker laps poor heats and not enough cars on the grids and even considering not returning to Lydden till things are put back to normal now how pathetic is that! Just airing my views the same as everyone else on here freedom of speech..
The Changes to the circuit have been brought about by updating the track inline with all the other Rallycross tracks around Europe by the F.I.A to enable us to have the ERC back on these shores. If Lydden was to stay as it was then in time maybe the BRC might have had to enforce theses changes for the safety of spectators we don’t need another incident like they had in France with Fatalities many years ago, which indecently was why all the safety upgrades are needed. I wouldn’t want to be the one standing at Lydden with its relaxed safety measures and have a member of my family hurt or injured by poor safety at the circuit (mind you then maybe I could come on here and moan that the track needed updating and that it should have moved on with all the other tracks and why wasn’t this done!).
If you are considering not attending Lydden anymore then how about saving your pennies and visiting France or Belgium or any other track in Europe and just see how there tracks are compared to Lydden as it is now with is recent updates, I’m sure you folks would come back with a whole different attitude to Lydden and maybe realise just how lucky we are others on this forum will also agree.

Division 2 was low on entries because of the new rule changes that have been brought in, also the fact the first round of the event was staged earlier than normal various drivers are still busy preparing there cars, a similar situation occurred when Division 1a was brought In the cross over period takes time drivers need to access the right way to go. And one major factor contributing to depleted grids was the fact that Lydden is such a high speed demanding circuit which can break cars. To see the Europeans adjusting there driving styles and tinkering with there cars over the course of the weekend and gradually improving was just great, from warm up on the Saturday when the cars seemed a little slow to the heats and finals the improvements made by some were vast which goes to show just how demanding Lydden is.
The Joker lap I think will be a debate which will go on for a while (just like the group B debate) having seen it first hand in Europe and to see it at Lydden I thought it made it more exciting and adds another dimension instead of just blasting a way from the grid and having the quickest car? Many of the Top European drivers like the challenge of the joker lap when to take it and when to push for the perfect lap to gain time on the others and not to make any errors! I guess there not stuck in their ways like some of us so called Rallycross fans are. After all where would Rallycross be without the drivers and there opinions. Just one note at the end off all this, look at the young talent that is coming through the ranks it seems to me! to move on with the times something we all need to do! 25yrs of following National and International events this is something I have learnt and it will not deter me from continuing to follow. And thank **** for the Doran’s and all the others who have helped and contributed we now have the ERC back in Great Britain lets hope we can keep it. Just hope no FIA members are on this forum because it wont be doing GBs chances of keeping the ERC any good..

[Elio]

"Safety" changes to allow Lydden to host an ERC event = not liked by the "regulars" but accepted on the grounds of "getting the ERC back at Lydden".

"Safety" changes for ERC KEPT for all the other 51 weekends of the year = very, VERY unfortunate for speccies at all those other events.

I think the point is being missed a little.

The vast majority are glad to see the ERC back at Lydden, and are tolerant of the amendments to the circuit to achieve that. The point is, when you actually LOOK at what has been done, (which is actually quite minor on the speccy side of things), IT COULD have been done as a temporary measure for that weekend, but APPEARS to have been done as a permanent one.

I fully expect that if I went to a continental ERC event then the circuits would make Lydden spectating seem very free and unrestricted. I don`t doubt that - I have seen pics on the `net.


Re Hairpin speakers - I think we were "between" speakers. Unfortunately our post looked like it had had a loudspeaker on it once, but not any longer!

[Alan Brown]

Has Elio got a point to restrict the joker lap to the second lap onwards? It did, at times, create some interest, but the joker run was so predictable - the outside cars on the grid did it immediately on the first lap and the inside cars left it to the last lap.

It is a shame that the spectator alterations appear to be permanent. The favoured spot for the oval racing element of the Festival of Motorsport just past the control tower has gone. Maybe the precipitous drop to the very narrow ledge at the hairpin has been done to appeal to the Gurkhas stationed at Folkestone who would certainly feel at home in that 'mountainous terrain'.

More speakers are needed so that the commentary can be heard by everyone. Spectating at different places over the two days meant that I heard some times and then had gaps in my notes when I went elsewhere.

Getting in was no problem, but I was fairly early and on leaving on Monday it only took 17 minutes from starting the engine to reaching the A2 which was a pleasant surprise. The loos received attention, a plus, dear ice creams, a minus.

Division 2 was disappointing. RWD conjures up tail out Mark Two Escorts, but the small field was rather tame. Most consistently entertaining driver overall was Walfridsson and then Evans.

Well done Amy and co. All in all a most enjoyable two days, helped enormously by the weather, although a tiny minority wanted rain to watch the cars sliding in mud. Very little of Kent had such hours of sunshine on both days.

[PhergAthor]

Spot on Schanche!

From a rallycross-team point of view I can say the improvements were noticeble and welcomed, only pitty there were only cold showers.

I've seen comments about long breaks, but I've tried to swollow my diner in 5 minutes to keep up with the timing. The longer break before the finals was due to discussion about a jumpstart that needed investigation before the final grids could be made up.

Regarding the spectators it looked like Lydden could hold even more spectators without getting too crouwded. Viewing in Lydden is very good compared too other circuits.

And about the jokerlap, well... I'm not opposing them as a concept, keeping in mind that without them RX can devolve into bangers into the first corner, destroying 300k cars and would prove to be desatorous for enrties. But I do feel that tracks with a jokerlap in the first corner do split up the field and makes the racing less entertaining. Elio made a sensible remark that could resolve it instantly: prohibit taking the jokerlap in the first round.

Last but not least the heats with 3 cars. It's not due to small entries, because 25 starters in a class gives 5 x 5 cars. One more starter in the class gives 4 x 5 cars and 2 x 3 cars = 26cars. And this is nothing new, it's always been like this. I wonder how any of you could complaine about this entry, top class quality field bar division 2, a class that needs a little more time to get more quality cars is. Borseth was verry entertaining and impressivly quick in free practise on sunday before engine troubles ruined his event.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by schanche

To see the Europeans adjusting there driving styles and tinkering with there cars over the course of the weekend and gradually improving was just great, from warm up on the Saturday when the cars seemed a little slow to the heats and finals the improvements made by some were vast which goes to show just how demanding Lydden is.

That's a very good point, the cars definitely picked up the pace as the weekend went on - probably the clearest example of that was Division 1A where Julian Godfrey lead the way in free practice only to be swallowed up as the weekend continued.

Originally Posted by Elio

IT COULD have been done as a temporary measure for that weekend, but APPEARS to have been done as a permanent one.

Maybe they could have been temporary - but a lot of the other changes that have been made have been at the behest of the MSA. In some cases if the changes weren't made then the track licence would not be issued. Realistically very little has been lost in terms of viewing areas, Lydden doesn't often see crowds of that size so at a "normal" meeting you should have no problem getting the view you want. The circuit still has by the the best viewing of any circuit I've been to.

Originally Posted by Alan Brown

Has Elio got a point to restrict the joker lap to the second lap onwards? It did, at times, create some interest, but the joker run was so predictable - the outside cars on the grid did it immediately on the first lap and the inside cars left it to the last lap.

Restricting it to the second lap or later could work, I think the problem with which cars took it when is a Lydden specific problem - how many other circuits have the joker at the first corner? If it was later in the lap people may have more choice? Don't know for sure.

Originally Posted by Alan Brown

Division 2 was disappointing. RWD conjures up tail out Mark Two Escorts, but the small field was rather tame.

Division 2 was a bit of a let down but once they've got the numbers out there it should be great, Sterkens was flying and looked really spectacular around Chessons, Borseth was quick when the car was working properly but that wasn't oten enough. There were a couple of glimpses of what it should be like and I still think it'll be a good class when more cars are built.

[PhergAthor]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

I think the problem with which cars took it when is a Lydden specific problem - how many other circuits have the joker at the first corner?

Lousada in Portugal has the same problem. Jokerlap on the outside of the first corner and racing there is exactly the same, the inside of the grid goes into the first corner, the outside into the joker.

[Thundersports]

Thought the joker lap split up the racing and undid the need for passing when stuck behind a slower car. Spectating was fine apart from the "chavs" on the dover slope who parked there cars virtually up against the fence! Top marks to the Dorans etc and thank you for all the effort put in to making it happen.

One more point; I think the British and Irish drivers are totally wasting there time/money against the Europeans they are simply in a different league. Concentrating on the British Championship would be far more productive for everyone.

[HrRACING]

Originally Posted by Thundersports

One more point; I think the British and Irish drivers are totally wasting there time/money against the Europeans they are simply in a different league. Concentrating on the British Championship would be far more productive for everyone.

everyone?? who is everyone??

Ok so my Clio wasn't ready for Lydden unfortunatly, but miss out on the oppotunity of racing all over europe, PAH I think not.

Racing in front of 40,000 screaming spectators in Sweden, or maybe I should do Pembrey in the cold and rain, hmmm...

From a cost point of view taking into account travel, entry fees and track time it is actually cheaper for me to do France, Belgium, Germany, Holland etc than it would be to go and race at Lydden in a round of the British Championship.

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by HrRACING

Racing in front of 40,000 screaming spectators in Sweden, or maybe I should do Pembrey in the cold and rain, hmmm...

Another one counting ears rather than noses!

Hal, the spectator record at Höljes is about 21,500 since 2008 and thanks to Marcus Grönholm.

[Elio]

Spectating was fine apart from the "chavs" on the dover slope who parked there cars virtually up against the fence!

Haha!! Sweet!! I so wanted to say "Chav" but didn`t have the bottle!!

I`m glad a few others see my point though, and it`s not me being a bit straight-laced and conservative about things.


Was the Lydden crowd respectable in the bigger European scheme of things then?? So often when a European or World round of anything comes to the UK it is poorly supported compared to the continentals who seem to appreciate motorsport more than us here. Would the Lydden crowd numbers have impressed those watching on the continent, or would other countries who maybe are not currently hosting an ERC event, be looking at the gate and saying that they could do a lot better??

[Elio]

All in all a most enjoyable two days, helped enormously by the weather, although a tiny minority wanted rain to watch the cars sliding in mud.

A day of each would have been nice. HAS to be more entertaining to watch in the wet, surely?!! Certainly would have laid the dust, and made both veiwing and photography a lot clearer.

What did Arthur quote Mr Rallycross as once saying???.... "You shouldn`t change colour when watching Rallycross" or something like that.......

[rx-guru]

Everything between 10,000 and 20,000 people for an ERC round is great.

If you wanna see more you need to go to Lohéac (30,000+). Some of the RX Grand Prix at Brands Hatch had 20,000+.
The first ERC round at Pembrey had 500+, whatever the organiser may have told…

[HrRACING]

I stand corrected guru but you know what I mean.

[Barrie]

Originally Posted by schanche

First of all what can I say but I have just got back from a fantastic weekend of racing glorious weather! Facilities vastly improved! Not since my last trip to France have I seen toilet attendants on hand cleaning up all the mess from spectators in the various WC's around the circuit and in France you pay for this service. Free Grandstand seating both days, entertainment for the little ones and the cream of Europe back at Lydden.Now the downside to this is coming back on to the forum from a break away to see so called Rallycross Fans moaning about why they cant stand in there usual spot, poor viewing around the circuit, joker laps poor heats and not enough cars on the grids and even considering not returning to Lydden till things are put back to normal now how pathetic is that! Just airing my views the same as everyone else on here freedom of speech..
The Changes to the circuit have been brought about by updating the track inline with all the other Rallycross tracks around Europe by the F.I.A to enable us to have the ERC back on these shores. If Lydden was to stay as it was then in time maybe the BRC might have had to enforce theses changes for the safety of spectators we don’t need another incident like they had in France with Fatalities many years ago, which indecently was why all the safety upgrades are needed. I wouldn’t want to be the one standing at Lydden with its relaxed safety measures and have a member of my family hurt or injured by poor safety at the circuit (mind you then maybe I could come on here and moan that the track needed updating and that it should have moved on with all the other tracks and why wasn’t this done!).
If you are considering not attending Lydden anymore then how about saving your pennies and visiting France or Belgium or any other track in Europe and just see how there tracks are compared to Lydden as it is now with is recent updates, I’m sure you folks would come back with a whole different attitude to Lydden and maybe realise just how lucky we are others on this forum will also agree.

Division 2 was low on entries because of the new rule changes that have been brought in, also the fact the first round of the event was staged earlier than normal various drivers are still busy preparing there cars, a similar situation occurred when Division 1a was brought In the cross over period takes time drivers need to access the right way to go. And one major factor contributing to depleted grids was the fact that Lydden is such a high speed demanding circuit which can break cars. To see the Europeans adjusting there driving styles and tinkering with there cars over the course of the weekend and gradually improving was just great, from warm up on the Saturday when the cars seemed a little slow to the heats and finals the improvements made by some were vast which goes to show just how demanding Lydden is.
The Joker lap I think will be a debate which will go on for a while (just like the group B debate) having seen it first hand in Europe and to see it at Lydden I thought it made it more exciting and adds another dimension instead of just blasting a way from the grid and having the quickest car? Many of the Top European drivers like the challenge of the joker lap when to take it and when to push for the perfect lap to gain time on the others and not to make any errors! I guess there not stuck in their ways like some of us so called Rallycross fans are. After all where would Rallycross be without the drivers and there opinions. Just one note at the end off all this, look at the young talent that is coming through the ranks it seems to me! to move on with the times something we all need to do! 25yrs of following National and International events this is something I have learnt and it will not deter me from continuing to follow. And thank **** for the Doran’s and all the others who have helped and contributed we now have the ERC back in Great Britain lets hope we can keep it. Just hope no FIA members are on this forum because it wont be doing GBs chances of keeping the ERC any good..

Well said Mr S.

[chunder]

Driving in Europe HAS to improve your racing surely

Saying that UK drivers shouldnt botehr is simply not fair.

Remember a few years back we were fairly good! Pat, Will, guys like Squibby, Flaherty and John were solid and often front line competitors.

And when our guys used to go up againt the quickest at local rounds people like Dermot, Baker, et al would be able to beat regular B Final guys or even push into A Finals

THe issue really is that our UK series cant really sustain the ERC rules yet and we have to cater for our market. Div 1 is ok, Evans, Tracey, Procter, Dorn are sold ERC contenders. Thre are many guys spending good money to be just as quick!

I think the UK's best chance is in the smaller categories. Going up against 15 year proven teams like Eklund, Hansen, Jernberg, Pailler is not gonna be easy no matter how much money you have (eh George) but look how much better these guys are as a result.

And a lot of our guys cars are hardly current spec, Evands car is quite old now, Proctors is a few years old as are Pat and Liams.

So back them, Gollop was bumming around in a Saab then three years later winning ERC rounds, Hutton was driving in Lydden winterseries in an RS Turbo then winning ERC championships.

[Suze]

Maybe it's just me....but I don't see a problem with cars being parked at the bottom of the Dover Slope [we parked at the top in an attempt to get out quicker!] but I do see an issue with the transit, for example, that was parked side on. If you don't like the cars that were parked at the bottom, what about those people that cable tied / padlocked etc their chairs to the fences? Is that not the same, or at least very similar? We didn't do either, and just chose to get there for when gates opened yesterday, but I don't see an issue with parking at the bottom of the slope - but as I said, parking a transit side on for example, is taking the p a bit.

[The Eye]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

Hal, the spectator record at Höljes is about 21,500 since 2008 and thanks to Marcus Grönholm.

Ad 1900 to that Guru. The spectator record at Höljes is 23,400

[Barrie]

Originally Posted by Suze

Maybe it's just me....but I don't see a problem with cars being parked at the bottom of the Dover Slope [we parked at the top in an attempt to get out quicker!] but I do see an issue with the transit, for example, that was parked side on. If you don't like the cars that were parked at the bottom, what about those people that cable tied / padlocked etc their chairs to the fences? Is that not the same, or at least very similar? We didn't do either, and just chose to get there for when gates opened yesterday, but I don't see an issue with parking at the bottom of the slope - but as I said, parking a transit side on for example, is taking the p a bit.

Gazebos and Scaffolding in Belguim is taking the p..., hope the organisers sort that out this year, unbelieveably selfish.

[Elio]

I don`t see an issue with staking your claim to a spot. It`s the early bird and all that. Staking it with a chair, whether cable-tied or not isn`t a problem, it`s old hat. Staking it with a vehicle however, and then parking it just shy of the fence, and then sitting IN it to watch rather than getting out isn`t on. Pedestrian speccies shouldn`t have to steer clear of 10 feets worth of viewing area in case they obstruct the view of those watching from a car. (ESPECIALLY the case when the weather is wet).

Bung in an extra line of fence 10 yards behind the existing one at Dover Slope. Those wanting to watch from a car can do so through the spectators infront of them in the spectator area.

Didn`t study the gazebos in too much detail but if they were taking up an unreasonable amount of space, ie, a lot more than the number of chairs under them, then that seems a tad unfair as well. Exactly the same principle as the cars on Dover Slope.... You shouldn`t be able to "monster" other spectators out of the way by unfair use of a car or a gazebo!!! (Maybe that should be printed on the wristbands next year?).

Can`t see the problem with cable-tying chairs though. That just ensures you can go for a wander round the paddock or so on without some oik either moving, taking, or actually sitting in them.

[Suze]

Yes gazebos and scaffolding is taking the p, but wasn't referring to that. Maybe I didn't think about it properly earlier, because thinking about it now reminded me of a clubbie event I was at at Lydden last year - it was raining and feeling wimpy decided to sit in the car to watch, so moved it and parked at the bottom of the slope to sit in it, but was around 8 feet from the fence inline with everyone else. Then others came, and parked noses against the fence, and that did annoy me. Why? Just line up like everybody else so everybody can see [and there were no spectators "prevented" from sitting there as everyone was in their cars]. In the end decided it was better to get a bit cold and get the brollie out to get a decent view!

So actually, I can see the point more, if the above helps to make more sense! I don't have an issue with the cable tying, didn't cause us any issues as sat where we wanted, but was just thinking it could be perceived as similar.

[The SpeCTator]

In the 1990,s they used to have scaffolding built by spectators at the British GP at Silverstone, they had a great view but when one collapsed and those below were injured the scaffolding access was denied from there on.
The thought of half a dozen drunk beer bellies landing on a small child should focus the mind of those reading the small print of the event insurance!

[Barrie]

Originally Posted by Barrie

Gazebos and Scaffolding in Belguim is taking the p..., hope the organisers sort that out this year, unbelieveably selfish.

Was refering to the upcoming Belguim ERC later this year, your post just reminded me how lucky we are at Lydden for veiwing compared to other tracks I ve been to watch the ERC, e g Maasmechelen, Belguim.

[Thundersports]

The car near us was so close you couldn't stand between the car and fence! And even more annoying was the fact the "chavs" weren't spectating from the car only coming back to get more crisps and alchopops occsionally!

Unfortunantly I think the "numbers" were more like 15k rather than the predicted 30k anyone who arrived late could look at the number on thier ticket and that would give us a clue.