|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
13 Nov 2017, 18:08 (Ref:3780237) | #276 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,818
|
|||
|
13 Nov 2017, 18:12 (Ref:3780240) | #277 | |
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,838
|
|
|
|
13 Nov 2017, 19:40 (Ref:3780251) | #278 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,692
|
How refreshing it was to see the two work together, i.e. Danny easily letting Max through when Max was on better tyres
|
|
__________________
He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
13 Nov 2017, 20:21 (Ref:3780266) | #279 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,497
|
So slow that he hasn't been able to match the Honey Badger's lap times -
Oh wait, sorry, checking that shows: Brazil 2017: 1 Max Verstappen Red Bull-TAG Heuer 1’11.044 2 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1’11.845 3 Lance Stroll Williams-Mercedes 1’11.862 4 Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull-TAG Heuer 1’12.029 Mexico 2017: 1 Sebastian Vettel Ferrari 1’18.785 2 Max Verstappen Red Bull-TAG Heuer 1’18.892 3 Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 1’19.374 20 Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull-TAG Heuer 1’22.789 US 2017: 1 Sebastian Vettel Ferrari 1’37.766 2 Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 1’37.767 3 Kevin Magnussen Haas-Ferrari 1’37.893 4 Max Verstappen Red Bull-TAG Heuer 1’38.060 5 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1’38.776 6 Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 1’38.809 7 Lance Stroll Williams-Mercedes 1’39.666 8 Brendon Hartley Toro Rosso-Renault 1’39.979 9 Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull-TAG Heuer 1’40.102 |
||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
13 Nov 2017, 20:47 (Ref:3780273) | #280 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
CR Until ...
Brazil Vettel Winner 7th fastest lap 1:12.539 Kimi 1:12.492 Mexico Hamilton Winner 5th fastest lap 1:19.945 Bottas 1:19.374 USA Hamilton Winner 5th Fastest lap 1:38.776 Bottas 1:37.767 By the above logic Bottas and Kimi are faster than their team mates. |
|
|
13 Nov 2017, 21:02 (Ref:3780279) | #281 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,818
|
Quote:
2016 - Daniel defeats Max in points 2017 - Daniel defeats Max in points Daniel - 406 points Max - 349 points Max too slow. |
|||
|
13 Nov 2017, 21:11 (Ref:3780283) | #282 | ||
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 39,938
|
Next year there will be barely a contest between them. Max has already demonstrated that he's the de facto RBR #1, and rightly so. I have plenty of time for Daniel, but he either has to come to terms with that or move elsewhere.
'Max too slow'? Now that really is one of the funniest things in what must be the most comical thread on Tenths...... |
||
__________________
280 days...... |
13 Nov 2017, 21:14 (Ref:3780287) | #283 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,818
|
|||
|
13 Nov 2017, 21:20 (Ref:3780292) | #284 | ||
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 39,938
|
It takes a strong man to laugh at himself. I applaud you for it......
|
||
__________________
280 days...... |
13 Nov 2017, 21:26 (Ref:3780294) | #285 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,818
|
|||
|
13 Nov 2017, 21:41 (Ref:3780296) | #286 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,497
|
Except Verstappen was setting his fastest laps whilst also finishing ahead of his teammate.
|
||
|
13 Nov 2017, 22:08 (Ref:3780302) | #287 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
||
|
14 Nov 2017, 00:08 (Ref:3780316) | #288 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
P.S. Ricciardo's qualifying record against Max this year is of far more concern than the fastest race laps.
|
|
|
14 Nov 2017, 19:33 (Ref:3780445) | #289 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 11,087
|
Figured it'd be more useful to compare the races that they both finished. Quick scan
Finished ahead of team mate Riccardo: 2 (Monaco, Monza) Verstappen: 5 (China, UK, Malaysia, Japan, Brazil) Average finishing position (disregarding DNFs) Riccardo: 3.43 Verstappen: 4.1 Average finishing position with 1 dropped score (disregarding DNFs) Riccardo: 3.23 Verstappen: 3.64 Average grid position Riccardo: 8.05 Verstappen: 6.22 I did the single dropped score to account for a single bad race that is outwith a drivers normal performance - Brazil was the worst for Riccardo, whilst Monza was the worst for Verstappen. When things go right for Verstappen, they REALLY go right. Starts higher and when both cars have finished, he's beaten Riccardo 5 times out of 7. Even if you discount Brazil due to different equipment, that's 4-2. He has 2 wins to Riccardos 1 as well. Other than clinging to points, I'm not seeing a huge argument for Riccardo being the #1 driver here. Verstappen qualifies better, and when both cars finish, he's ahead. |
|
|
14 Nov 2017, 20:16 (Ref:3780450) | #290 | |||
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 39,938
|
Quote:
The simple fact is that we've seen in the last few races where the balance of power (and the future) lies. You can't deny what you see with your own eyes...... Yep, as I say, that's what most of us are seeing....... |
|||
__________________
280 days...... |
15 Nov 2017, 08:59 (Ref:3780529) | #291 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
||
|
15 Nov 2017, 19:23 (Ref:3780611) | #292 | ||
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 39,938
|
Gotcha. Somehow I read that the other way around.........
|
||
__________________
280 days...... |
17 Nov 2017, 05:09 (Ref:3780888) | #293 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 578
|
As much as I am a fan of Ricciardo, Verstappen is obviously something very special. Its also interesting to see that Sainz is giving the Hulk a bit of a touch up in the Renault as well.
Verstappen had most of his misfortune at the start of the year when the car was not great, Ricciardo has had his at the later part of the season where i think the car is much better. Not an excuse, just an observation. He will need to pull his finger out next year. I think the Hamilton quote RE Ricciardo beating Verstappen is interesting unto itself and could be a bit of ensuring reputation remains intact. If Ricciardo struggles against Verstappen (and I dont think he does when you compare Bottas and Hamilton by comparison) but can hang with / beat Hamilton regularly - then where does that leave Hamilton in the order of things? In looking for a new contract, Ricciardo is somewhat a victim of his own success. Hes good enough for a top flight seat, hes better than a number 2 but not perhaps in the alien space of Verstappen. IMHO he would handle Vettel rather handily (Raikkonen is not far off at the twilight of his career) and would be a close match for Hamilton. I think hes doing the right hting by hanging back on his contract at his stage of his career as if Red Bull end up with a Honda( and after Brazil with Toro Rosso - i dont think that helped at all), id say that the Renault fall out from a couple of years ago will be light entertainment by comparison. |
|
|
17 Nov 2017, 05:31 (Ref:3780891) | #294 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,732
|
This is a bring the popcorn and watch thread.
I am Australian and the argument seems to be split along the lines of Australians for Dan and the rest of the world for Max. An objective measure would be that Red Bull seem to be talking about offering Dan about 20% of what Max will be getting in his new contract.In the first half of 2018 he is going to have to match Max in the qualifying battle as well as race results to get that Mercedes or Ferrari drive. |
||
|
17 Nov 2017, 06:31 (Ref:3780895) | #295 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,413
|
|||
|
17 Nov 2017, 06:59 (Ref:3780899) | #296 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,497
|
Quote:
You keep rattling off the line points, points, points, and using this to demonstrate that Max is slow. But points are not a reflection of speed. Lap Times will show you the speed of a driver on the track in race conditions. In this measure, Max is destroying Daniel. If Max is too slow, he is still the quickest driver in a Red Bull. So no wonder Daniel is waiting to decide his future. Stay at Red Bull, Daniel is No.2 driver and will get beaten by Max. Move to Mercedes, get beaten by Lewis. |
|||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
17 Nov 2017, 07:18 (Ref:3780902) | #297 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 578
|
Quote:
|
||
|
17 Nov 2017, 07:44 (Ref:3780907) | #298 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
Max needs to learn not to run into people, until he does so he will not beat Ricciardo over a season. I think there are also a few people who he will find a lot tougher to race against when they are not in contention for a title. What goes around comes around, and Max has got away with quite a bit this year, he won't be able to stick the nose of his car into a fifty fifty and expect to get away with it.
"That kid is dangerous, it wasn't worth it." Lewis Will change rapidly. |
|
|
17 Nov 2017, 07:46 (Ref:3780908) | #299 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 302
|
|||
|
17 Nov 2017, 08:05 (Ref:3780909) | #300 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,497
|
Quote:
Daniel is outscoring Max. Max is quicker than Daniel. RBR know that once they give Max a reliable car, he is the best chance of a WDC as he is the quicker driver. |
|||
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Ricciardo vs Vergne ( vs Raikkonen) | FAS33 | Formula One | 207 | 14 Sep 2013 07:38 |
Ricciardo is the man?! | Biscuits In A Red Bull | Formula One | 40 | 27 Aug 2013 07:41 |
[Driver] Ricciardo | Skam85 | Formula One | 150 | 30 Dec 2011 10:45 |
What should Red Bull do with Ricciardo | manwell | Formula One | 15 | 18 Nov 2010 12:15 |
Bottas v Ricciardo - How are they comparing? | chunterer | National & International Single Seaters | 16 | 5 Jul 2010 08:24 |