Club F3

[Ian Sowman]

Any results from today please John? There's nothing on MST as yet.

[JohnMiller]

I don't actually know who won - it might have been Keith Baldwin.

Gary Marsh was on pole but blew his engine. Gavin was second but felt he would have gone quite a bit quicker but for Gary's oil.

Our car retired from a healthy lead with fuel pressure issues. A little disappointing after being at the front for over half the race following recovering from a dodgy start (clutch?). Mind you anybody watching would know what was the quickest combination (and after just 22 laps of difficult shakedown testing)...

When we get the suspension sorted out and some brakes that work properly and a clutch that works at all, hopefully it should be quite a bit quicker yet.

[JohnMiller]

My mistake:

1 Shane KELLY
2 Jon GRAY
3 Paul QUINN
4 Gary MARSH
5 Keith BALDWIN
6 Paul KNAPTON
7 Terry LUDGROVE
8 Chris NEEDHAM
9 David PORTER
10 Nick ROBINSON
11 Dave KARASKAS
12 Peter KALPAKIOTIS
13 Steve ALLEN
14 Peter HANNAM

Not Classified
Alan ELLIS
Gavin WILLS
Paul SIBLEY
Ken FINNERAN
Mike WHITE

Dallara 98 cars still dominant all year - Donington being a track you'd think might suit the newer cars.

[Bob Pearson]

Just looked at the results/times on MST. That was impressive, good stuff. When's the next round and where?

[JohnMiller]

Snett July 9th I think, although we can't be there for that one.

Then Brands, Mallory, Oulton, Thruxton - plus not totally impossible a replacement for Castle Combe.

[Porks]

Just for a quick opinion.......
Do you think it would be better to run an F3 car myself for a season in Club
F3 or do you think it would be better to pay someone for a few drives in a national Formula Ford series bearing in mind my limited budget and wanting as much track time as possible?
For the price of the two events with testing I could afford an older Dallara.
Also I want to further my racing career as much as possible without blowing the budget on a paid drive that may not get me anywhere?
What do you think?

[driftwood]

buy and run yr own car u can us eit when ever u want
wots yr budget

[Cleggie]

Originally Posted by driftwood

buy and run yr own car u can us eit when ever u want
wots yr budget

...and with a bit of luck & all that money you've saved, you could afford some spelling & grammar lessons!

...no wot i meen.....

[driftwood]

bullocks to that !!
keyboard is female & does not do what its meant to do if ya know wot i mean!!

[Jon Gray]

Donnington was a good race with a large grid hopefully Snetterton should have a decent grid to. Club F3 is doing all it can to attract drivers and I for one think it is the best club level series to be in.

Bob Pearson thanks for the vote of confidence I had a camera on my car for the race and should make good TV keep checking our web site for when it’s on. On that note Rockinghamis on this Friday night 23rd June

Cleggie any news on your car, have you got a bell housing sorted yet or are you no further on with that.

Porks if you let me know what you can afford I am sure I can point you in the right direction having run F3 cars for the past ten years.

Driftwood you need to get some stock of 04 parts at the moment I am spending my money with Carlin and Fortec it’s your loss.

[driftwood]

ive got the parts to hand just send me yr ££ !!
ive large order overseas on my desk
so big it may be cheaper for them to buy another car ( yes large shunt! )
Club F3 will loose 3 drivers for that event with clashing commitments that weekend I am aiming to be at snott race subject to engine rebuild/dyno run !!

[Jon Gray]

Just get your engine done and get out. Let me know what you have got not that intrested in body work more like suspension stuff

[SALEEN S7R]

Just saw the Rockingham coverage on Motors TV and I have to say I was pretty impressed, the series looks a lot better than what ARP used to be. I have only seen a few rounds of ARP F3 on Sky Sports last year but what I did see really didnt impress me that much, this series however seems better organised and unless im mistaken some of the cars are a bit newer? I forget the rules for ARP F3, was 2002 spec machinery the newest allowed? Class A of Club F3 allows for cars up until the end of December 2004 and some of the cars look pretty good.

Im not normally much of a fan of Formula 3 but this series looks like potentially being a very good spring board for anyone hoping to make it to British F3 one day, certainly a better option, and perhaps cheaper than a season in British Formula Renault or Formula Palmer Audi? (I mean the normal FPA championship and not the winter series).

[SALEEN S7R]

Just been reading the club f3 website and this thread a little more closely and I notice that Donnington had 19 cars on the entry, Im quite impressed by that, at Rockingham I beleive there was only 12, just like the old ARP days. 19 is a good number, hopefully the series will continue to attract more entrants. The series is doing better than I first realised.

[Jon Gray]

SALEEN S7R I am glad you liked the coverage on motors TV for me the first race was good but the second was pants due to an engine problems but these things happen. Donnington should be good, I had a camera on my car for the race and finished second it was very competitive which is great for the series.

As for the next round at Snetterton I don’t think we will make 19 cars for this one due to the World Cup and a few people at Donnington had problems but the series should grow as interest is high in the championship. The cars are all of a very high standard. Gary Marsh blew a engine at Donnington and even managed to get it changed for the race now that shows commitment but we all helped out which shows it is a club series.

[Arty B]

A very interesting back to back comparison of the performance of Mono and Club F3 cars at Brands this weekend gone.

Mono race 1 pole 47.343, fastest lap 47.872, race speed 90.26 mph.
Mono race 2 pole 47.268, fastest lap 48.203, race speed 89.92 mph.

Club F3 pole 45.877, fastest lap 46.527, race speed 88.93 mph.

All Dallara F398/Opel.

What does that tell us?

[Arty B]

Should have said it was the thread starters car that won the Club F3 race in a convincing manner and that the pole Mono car would have been in the top 6 on the Club F3 grid.

[Cleggie]

Originally Posted by Arty B

A very interesting back to back comparison of the performance of Mono and Club F3 cars at Brands this weekend gone.

Mono race 1 pole 47.343, fastest lap 47.872, race speed 90.26 mph.
Mono race 2 pole 47.268, fastest lap 48.203, race speed 89.92 mph.

Club F3 pole 45.877, fastest lap 46.527, race speed 88.93 mph.

All Dallara F398/Opel.

What does that tell us?

What it tells us all, Arty B old chap, is that Mono's can go quickly in straight lines, but not quickly around corners, now I wonder why?

[reynard55]

I wondered how long it wold take after the weekend for this to start

From my view I see that both the Mono 2000 and the Club F3's are nobbled by the rulebook, the MSA say that the Mono's have to run at 40mm and the club say that the F3's have to run bullet hard crossplies.

As for straight line speed I would say that the Club F3's looked faster in a straight line, that probably stcks up as I am told a decent F3 has about 20-30 brake more than a Mono 2000.

[JohnMiller]

Not too sure about the bhp as our car has below 200. The Club F3ers have been struggling with the new construction/compound tyres and I feel sure, if we tested for a couple more days a 43 would be where we end up. Shame there were some crashes in qualifying as 17 wasn't a disastrous entry size.

I enjoyed the Mono race I watched too, it certainly entertained with a close battle between the two Dallaras and the Formula Ireland.

I am actively tring to promote a winter Trophy race where Club F3s and Mono-engined F3 chassis could share a grid which I think would be interesting.

[driftwood]

1 I cant understand how a lap time of 45 seconds has a slower speed than a 48 second lap the info is wrong !!
i wil look for my programme later to get the speed off the chart for 45 47 48 second laps
if a car travels faster in seconds it is travelling faster as its averega e speed per lap- of course you can have a higher terminal speed into a corner forma car that travels slower in seconds per lap but the Monos that won had gearing for 127 mph like the F3 cars

2 The tyres used in Club f3 are inferior to those used in 05 and 04 spec tyres where the better rubber - Mono tyres are free but the cars run at the 40 mm ride height some moron instigated at the behest of the circuit owners to avoid itanium skids goudging grooves in the circuits after they where seen on f1 cars in the 80`s/90`s

3 17 entries was a good entry for brands creeping up on the 20 at donington race - what is irritating is the fact that cars are ready to run in garages but the owners do not come out- we also have interest from people to join f3 next year with that classic line of "we will watch and see how this season gioes before we commit to buying a car"-- well these people do not help the sereis and maybe F3 is better off with out them if that is their mentality we need positive action and comments and nothing else
Brands saw a new face in a rental car that may lead to more later

JM im prepared to wager £100 that your car will not do a 43 second lap on those x ply tyres radials yes maybe
Top flight F3 do 42.2 with 400k budget team latest spec car engine tyres team engineer a young top gun driver and class b is probably late 42 early 43 sec lap ( check MST or F3 site for data as i cant be bothered today)

If you want a winter trophey race best to ask MSV for a libre race or 2 that way u can invite mono f3 FR cars to fill the grid and you may get 25 cars that way

Mono races where entertaining however the standard of driving with back markers left something else to discuss - I wonder of they have mirrors fitted to the cars?
so let the *****ing commence!!

[Arty B]

Originally Posted by driftwood

1 I cant understand how a lap time of 45 seconds has a slower speed than a 48 second lap the info is wrong !!
i wil look for my programme later to get the speed off the chart for 45 47 48 second laps

Kevan.

Read the thread. Race speed NOT lap speed. It means the Mono's lapped at a lower AVERAGE lap time.

[Jon Gray]

Brands Hatch highlighted a problem that was evident at Snetterton and that is tyres. I tested on Friday and after going through the normal set up changes it became apparent that the tyres where the issue. We put on an old set and instantly went over a second faster not only that in qualifying there where a lot of cars that had new tyres fitted myself included only to find the front’s were not balanced. So yes there is a problem with the tyres but we all have the same problem so it does not effect the racing to much. Both Club F3 and BMTR with Avon will look at it and I have faith that it will be sorted out, we might even be going onto British F3 Radials if it proves a viable solution personally I would prefer the same as British F3. The other option is a softer compound Crossply this would be better but personally it’s time for a change.

I watched the Mono race as well and the front was quite entertaining but I will not be drawn into who is the best debate, like I have said a million times before they are different series.

[Arty B]

Originally Posted by Jon Gray

I watched the Mono race as well and the front was quite entertaining but I will not be drawn into who is the best debate, like I have said a million times before they are different series.

I absolutely agree with you Jon. Not looking to determine which is best. My own simple conclusion was that a well driven F398 is still a good car.

[driftwood]

driver car race time laps mph FL

Mark HARRISON Dallara F398 20:28.013 25 89.92 48.227 Gavin WILLS Dallara F398 25:39.464 31 88.93 46.527

qualifying
Gavin WILLS Dallara F398 96.22 45.877 Mark HARRISON Dallara F398 93.24 47.34

the average speed in race results is over 2 different sets of laps mono did 25 laps f3 did 31 laps hence difference in average race speeds

I have just looked at the f3 race laps 4-6 had a safety car situation (2 cars went off ) laptimes s are 1 min 5-20 seconds hence the race speed being lower !!!!!

As i said the times for a faster lap time car will mean a faster average speed for the race
I rest my case !!!!

The F3 race for laps 1-25 would be faster than mono as Wills did sub 48 sec laps on all laps except laps 4-6 with the safety car period and lap 31 was 49 seconds as he won by a country mile !!

If i was to take Wills average lap time of say 47 seconds for the 3 slow laps
the f3 cars average race speed will be around 92-3 mph