Parker ENZED NZV8 Championship - Page 13

r8hsv · 11 Apr 2006, 09:06 (Ref:1578351)

Just something i am wondering,maybe someone with some knowledge can help me out here seeing as this is quite significant......In regards to the initial protest being lodged.How much evidence does the protestee actually have to produce for the course of action that has proceeded to have taken place??.For the cars/engines to be taken or whatever to be disasembled to be checked i would think that there would be quite a significant amount of evidence for it to occur..or i could be wrong ,havent been around that long so i dont know the ins and out of it .....If thats the case has someone said something they shouldnt have to the wrong person for it to occur as from my take on it they were looking at cyl heads from the get go so someone knew something that werent possibly suppose to know ?? i dont know.........And another thing im curious on,Is the identity of the person/team protesting given to the teams that are accussed of it at the hearing or the 1st initail stages of it??...cause if thats the case then theres going to be a whole lot of tension in the pits at puke..........

911 · 11 Apr 2006, 09:07 (Ref:1578352)

Thanks for clearing that up.

Tracy · 11 Apr 2006, 09:09 (Ref:1578354)

Hi All

Nope, Tracie and I are different people

but anyway, does anyone know the answer to my question?

911 · 11 Apr 2006, 09:12 (Ref:1578357)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracy

Hi All

Nope, Tracie and I are different people

but anyway, does anyone know the answer to my question?

Some body can correct me if I'm wrong, but only one head is sealed.

r8hsv · 11 Apr 2006, 09:15 (Ref:1578358)

hahaha!! i saw the 3 news clip and u refer to "Robbo" ....is that the guy where the interview started with him ( i think it was cut personally) saying "how obvious is it when you are pregnant???" then carrying on about the illegal heads............now THAT has to be the quote of the day

V8's rule · 11 Apr 2006, 09:19 (Ref:1578362)

You are correct Tracy, there is a seal on 1 cylinder head but not on both

jjd · 11 Apr 2006, 09:27 (Ref:1578367)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911

Some body can correct me if I'm wrong, but only one head is sealed.

Amatures, no wonder we have these situations end over, that is hardly sealing an engine

Tracie · 11 Apr 2006, 09:27 (Ref:1578368)

R8HSV

there was no initial protest - The Techco's pulled the two heads and specifically looked for the machining

it could only be that they knew what they were looking for -- now just how that came about is interesting because I do know that normally they will not listen to 'pit talk' and have a program that they manage to - this program is posted after the event on MSNZ site for all to see.

My spies tell me that they were directed to by V8 NZ Ltd (old TOCAL).

Tracy · 11 Apr 2006, 09:31 (Ref:1578370)

Hi All

Thanks for that everyone

So if only one head is sealed, they could theoretically get rid of part of the problem, but not all of it??

V8's rule · 11 Apr 2006, 09:40 (Ref:1578373)

Quote:

Originally Posted by r8hsv

Just something i am wondering,maybe someone with some knowledge can help me out here seeing as this is quite significant......In regards to the initial protest being lodged.How much evidence does the protestee actually have to produce for the course of action that has proceeded to have taken place??.For the cars/engines to be taken or whatever to be disasembled to be checked i would think that there would be quite a significant amount of evidence for it to occur..or i could be wrong ,havent been around that long so i dont know the ins and out of it .....If thats the case has someone said something they shouldnt have to the wrong person for it to occur as from my take on it they were looking at cyl heads from the get go so someone knew something that werent possibly suppose to know ?? i dont know.........And another thing im curious on,Is the identity of the person/team protesting given to the teams that are accussed of it at the hearing or the 1st initail stages of it??...cause if thats the case then theres going to be a whole lot of tension in the pits at puke..........

There was no protest lodged by any competitor on this current issue. The technical department were ordered to check a specific allegation that was feed to a member of the TOCAL technical commitee....The TOCAL board were then advised of these concerns and directed the technical department to investigate. The question is, who had unfetted access to the parts in question? Angus obviously but certainly not Gary Pederson.

Sausage · 11 Apr 2006, 09:55 (Ref:1578382)

Quote:

Originally Posted by r8hsv

hahaha!! i saw the 3 news clip and u refer to "Robbo" ....is that the guy where the interview started with him ( i think it was cut personally) saying "how obvious is it when you are pregnant???" then carrying on about the illegal heads............now THAT has to be the quote of the day

We cannot all be as beautiful as yourself r8hsv!!
The ramifications of this fiasco are hugely serious for our sport.
What we have here are two team owners that have stepped outside the boundaries in their personal quest to be champions with a blatant disregard for the ruling authority, the reputation of motorsport and the absolute disregard for their sponsors dollars.
The respective drivers take the punishment, but the team owners are the ones that sign off the engine builders work and pay the bills.
I go to my bed tonight wondering if Greg and Lyall regret their actions.
I wonder how Hydralink and Caltex feel about the bad press.
I believe the actions of these two team owners have totally nullified any excitement in this V8 class going into the final round and it is a bloody disgrace!!
Waffle on about Robbo as much as you like. His team have at least had the spinal fortitude to act and deliver.
Goodnight Greg. Goodnight Lyall.

Tracie · 11 Apr 2006, 10:00 (Ref:1578390)

I rang Robbo after the news clip to have him on about it - he tells me that he had just been asked "how illegal were the heads" and what was shown was only the answer - but think that the example shows the level that he will use when policing the regulations

911 · 11 Apr 2006, 10:08 (Ref:1578398)

Seems 'Fat Robbo' didn't have 'the spinal fortitude' to act on the modified distributers of Kevin Williams, and from what I hear from a VERY reliable source, the #99 car.

Tracie · 11 Apr 2006, 10:15 (Ref:1578404)

911

and you are aware that there was a techinal infringement report produced for him to act upon

"Fat Robbo" as you call him is not known for walking away from an issue when it is presented to him

Goat Boy · 11 Apr 2006, 10:20 (Ref:1578409)

Well it sure has lit up this forum like nothing I've seen before. Which is a sure sign that almost everyone here is either a driver or involved in a team or sleeping with one or something like that.

My TKR news has left not a ripple tonight

Ah well, happy sparring all, I'm off to bed in the shed. It's cold down here, too, only 6 degrees tomorrow!!!

V8's rule · 11 Apr 2006, 10:39 (Ref:1578425)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911

Seems 'Fat Robbo' didn't have 'the spinal fortitude' to act on the modified distributers of Kevin Williams, and from what I hear from a VERY reliable source, the #99 car.

Calling Robbo names merely belittle's you, as does your ignorance of the rules. Up untill a rule change last week Distributors were free, so neither kevin William or the 99 team, or any other team that took advantage of those freedoms is guilty of anything. May I remind you that it was also Robbo that threw the book at Scott 2 years ago which also cost him the championship..... In my opinion Robbo is absolutly consistent, and and an unpaid vollunteer at that!

Just Do It! · 11 Apr 2006, 11:02 (Ref:1578438)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evomike

You are 100% correct Goatboy.

At least he is honest. This speaks volumes Evo, and is not going unheard

**GTRMagic** · 11 Apr 2006, 11:42 (Ref:1578465)

Back to the topic at hand...

Having read the ruling Here, would I be right in assuming that each driver is actually the entrant of these vehicles?

Or is the MSNZ entrant/driver relationship different to that under CAMS control?

Unless I am mistaken, if a car is deemed to be prepared and raced in an ineligible specification, the entrant is the person/organisation that takes the hit, and has their licence suspended for a period (used to happen a lot in Formula Ford 15 or so years ago as some teams pushed the edge of legality)

It just seems odd the pdf document doesnt mention/separate a driver from an entrant. Technically this distinction would mean a car can be ineligible, and a driver can maintain his points where there is a separation of ownership between the entrant and driver...

This judgement has obviously cacked up a perfectly good series...

Do you think Mr McIntyre and Mr Pedersen will show up at the last round, with a new engine in each car, and try to display the speed of their cars regardless, or will they stay home, disillusioned with the sport?

As an aside, if each of these competitors truly believed their powerplants are legal, it would not be a silly move to keep them in their cars for the final round, as a statement of belief in the error of the charges brought before them, admittedly at risk of further penalty for having done so if their subsequent appeals are quashed.

BAZzzzz c · 11 Apr 2006, 13:21 (Ref:1578552)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sausage

We cannot all be as beautiful as yourself r8hsv!!
The ramifications of this fiasco are hugely serious for our sport.
What we have here are two team owners that have stepped outside the boundaries in their personal quest to be champions with a blatant disregard for the ruling authority, the reputation of motorsport and the absolute disregard for their sponsors dollars.
The respective drivers take the punishment, but the team owners are the ones that sign off the engine builders work and pay the bills.
I go to my bed tonight wondering if Greg and Lyall regret their actions.
I wonder how Hydralink and Caltex feel about the bad press.
I believe the actions of these two team owners have totally nullified any excitement in this V8 class going into the final round and it is a bloody disgrace!!
Waffle on about Robbo as much as you like. His team have at least had the spinal fortitude to act and deliver.
Goodnight Greg. Goodnight Lyall.

Sausage,? you are a worthy, sensible and astute newcomer to this Forum thread. I think I concur with every sentiment you expressed in your quoted Post. Yes, a Bloody disgrace just about sums it up too.

I dont know who "Robbo" is, or anything about what he does but I fear I am about to learn....Given the dire results of his work very recently, he must be very sure of his ground and his juristiction.

BAZzzzz c · 11 Apr 2006, 14:04 (Ref:1578582)

Gutted by the news of the Points loss for Johnny Mac and Paul, I cannot help but see the tragic irony in the results of the Headgate enquiry which sees Kayne Scott, an undisputed and proven cheat from a previous Season, but Racing 'clean' this year (and very very well too I might add) suddenly promoted to Championship Leader. Kaynes very public bleating about parity (god I hate that word) would seem to have some merit if indeed the dodgy Heads do give some advantage over the standard ones (and why would they be different if they Didnt give an advantage of some sort) Tragic news today both from the point of view that no matter how it is reported, these Great DRIVERS will be deemed to be involved in something dodgy although WE all know better than to think that, but also tragic because here we have a Major New Zealand Motor racing Code that has gone to great lengths to proMOTE themselves this Season with swept up Logos and great publicity (although that bit still needs some work) and that has drawn many many thousands of good keen folk into their web of excitement, intrigue and full on Holden vs Ford, this Driver against that Driver head to head (no pun intended, you know me) Competition, coming into the last Round of a Super Season where we saw the Leader seperated from Second by just 12 Points and where we will be moving in very esteemed Company at an INTERNATIONAL Event, and what have we here.? An acutely embarassing situation that will have the World focused on OUR series for all the wrong reasons. We who follow this Code have been duped by persons unknown at the moment into accepting without question the authenticity of the Series, the rules that govern it and the folk that supply the Equipment that we see scrauping around the Tracks. It sort of deflates the whole bloody Series and as it aint anywhere near finished as regards Heads n Engines n Teams n Individuals stepping outside the rules, then Pukekohe for me at least has been ruined as the exciting and Orgastic Finale that we have been leading up to all Season. and THAT my friends has peed me off no end.

go the fords · 11 Apr 2006, 19:10 (Ref:1578768)

Its not very fair picking on Robbo. You are not ment to shoot the messenger. He is doing his job and he has always been a tough but fair dude. That is what we need from him. Calling him "fat robbo" is just child like.
We need guys like him and "double D" to help run the sport with out them what sort of mess would we have. I feel sorry for those guys , they would not be enjoying this rough time. I look forward to having a burbon with doubleD at Pukekoe..poor old fella will have a few more grey hairs after this week.
Shame on you name callers.........

r8hsv · 11 Apr 2006, 19:23 (Ref:1578777)

Quote:

We cannot all be as beautiful as yourself r8hsv!!
The ramifications of this fiasco are hugely serious for our sport.
What we have here are two team owners that have stepped outside the boundaries in their personal quest to be champions with a blatant disregard for the ruling authority, the reputation of motorsport and the absolute disregard for their sponsors dollars.
The respective drivers take the punishment, but the team owners are the ones that sign off the engine builders work and pay the bills.
I go to my bed tonight wondering if Greg and Lyall regret their actions.
I wonder how Hydralink and Caltex feel about the bad press.
I believe the actions of these two team owners have totally nullified any excitement in this V8 class going into the final round and it is a bloody disgrace!!
Waffle on about Robbo as much as you like. His team have at least had the spinal fortitude to act and deliver.
Goodnight Greg. Goodnight Lyall.

Actually sausage i was only refering to the reply that he answered with to the question that was obviously put towards him and was cut out of the item that was broadcasted...I thought it was quite a good way of stating the obvious,hence my quote of the day comment.....Nothing bad towards the man as i dont even know him

And thanks to all for answering my questions on how the protest came about.

MRKEENASMUSTARD · 11 Apr 2006, 19:35 (Ref:1578784)

Well interesting to say the least. Regarding the talk on sealing engines may I suggest (cat in bird cage type stuff) that despite motorsport doing in my opinion an excellent job in a very tough environment, they are however constrained by cost to effect a cheat proof engine sealing method. The prehistoric twist wire/lead stamp system is in my humble opinion totally ineffective in this very expensive/high stakes class. Were kidding ourselves if we think that all the engines in this class are sealed my motorspot & not touched till they return for casual glace at the crimp before they are cut off. Yes there are 6-8 or more seals on heads, water pumps, blocks, engine mounts etc but............any smart engineer worth his salt is certainally more than capable of taking a cast of a lead crimp & producung their own. This has been done many times before in NZ, going back in some cases many years & I dont have confidence that its not still employed by some teams wanting to take advantage. The answer is either bar code or a more cost effective method, data dot spray as used on HSV & Subaru road cars.

Tracie · 11 Apr 2006, 20:06 (Ref:1578803)

GTR Magic wrote "Having read the ruling Here, would I be right in assuming that each driver is actually the entrant of these vehicles?

Or is the MSNZ entrant/driver relationship different to that under CAMS control?"

Yes it is = the entrants are different and also 2 years ago our Court of Appeal when considering an illegal clutch were asked wether any penalty should go to the driver -- the court ruled that it was a drivers championship and they were responsible for all aspects of their competition and this included vehicle elligibility

wether or not that is fair is debatable but those are our rules - you could have the case where there is a deliberate breach of technical rules that give a driver an unfair advantage - entrant gets pinged but driver retains points does not seem fair to me

flyingduck · 11 Apr 2006, 20:10 (Ref:1578808)

Have to say Robbo may agree with some the comments knowing him and his sense of humor but he has made the only decision that can be in this case. I have to say it has brought a lot of media interest to the class that can only be good and how many people will be watching to see how quick the to party's are at Puke. If I was Mr Pederson and I truly believe that my engine was legal I would run it at Puke so if the protest is upheld then he does not get disadvantaged by starting at the back of the Grid because of engine change rules. This would also show us if it does make much difference

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