Acura/HPD's future plans

[Aslak Vind]

If I remember correctly those "new Acura in CAD" rumours started in June before Le Mans... has it been in halt whole summer then?

I doubt it, they have probably been testing it in CFD all summer. And maybe a couple of scale models in the windtunnel.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

I doubt it, they have probably been testing it in CFD all summer. And maybe a couple of scale models in the windtunnel.

Scale models take too much time and money. Easier to build full size and put that car in the wind tunnel

[Hugewally]

Everyone makes scale models.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Scale models take too much time and money. Easier to build full size and put that car in the wind tunnel

How could it possibly be less expensive (temporally and fiscally) to build a full-scale mock-up than a fraction-scale one?

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Scale models take too much time and money. Easier to build full size and put that car in the wind tunnel

...and then throw it away because you figured out you got it wrong?

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Scale models take too much time and money. Easier to build full size and put that car in the wind tunnel

Hmmm, spend 2-3 million on tooling for full scale based on your best guess or spend $500,000 on a model program and know you got it right. If it was "easier" you'd have no need for model tunnel programs (every F1 and NASCAR team have model programs).

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

...and then throw it away because you figured out you got it wrong?

Happens all the time. and not a full scale mock up but the real deal. It is amazing what CAD, computer anamations and computer simulations do these days. Plus most teams dont have the time to do mock ups anymore.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

Hmmm, spend 2-3 million on tooling for full scale based on your best guess or spend $500,000 on a model program and know you got it right. If it was "easier" you'd have no need for model tunnel programs (every F1 and NASCAR team have model programs).

F1 and NASCAR( top teams) are a totally differnt league then sports cars.

[cmk]

If Mike is saying that models are commonly used, and it would seem he is (am I interpreting it correctly?), then that would be the truth...I cannot imagine Mike not knowing that!

Where does the impression that there is not enough time coming from? Most serious works programs (Porsche, Audi, Peugeot) spent at least 8 months, typically more than a year working on a new car before debuting it. Leading privateers spent nearly that long (Embassy, for instance). Sure, some work is done full-scale after the car is built, but there is no way that organizations like Porsche built the RS Spyder as a roller for its first wind tunnel exposure.

[Aslak Vind]

Thank you Mike and cmk!

I know that Audi has been working on their new baby at least since the start of 2008, including models in the Audi and Fondmetal tunnel, before going to a roller. And frankly, I am not so sure that there is so much difference leaguewise between the making of new sportscars from Acura and Audi, and F1.

[AU N EGL]

Not every team has the budget or staff of Audi or Pug or GM

Does Pesca or Courage build 3/4 scale Mock ups?

I have been to most of the NASCAR race shops ( I do like in the heart of NASCAR country ) Many Shops do build mock ups, but not that many. and they are full scale on older chassies.

We have three wind tunnels here in North Carolina. Two any one can rent and one is on the Penske Race complex for all HIS teams.


Funny how ppl want to see all the scientific advances in racing then call for budget reductions?

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

F1 and NASCAR( top teams) are a totally differnt league then sports cars.

That wasn't the discussion, you said it was "easier to build full size". It isn't. Hence Courage, Creation, Zytek, Lola, Epsilon, Dome, Embassy, and every half-serious LMP effort, etc., has spent some time developing their concept in the scale model tunnel first.

Don't have time? Sure, the efforts that aren't serious don't have the time I suppose. But I really don't think you'll find many people who are willing to drop the $2-3 million to tool up an LMP car based on a guess of the car's aero. Just doesn't happen these days.

[vorsprung]

Even Lavaggi used a 40% wind tunnel model
Radical is probably the only current LMP which didn't use a scale model for development.

[Hugewally]

Are you certain that the Penske wind tunnel can't be rented???

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

Are you certain that the Penske wind tunnel can't be rented???

It's publically available. That's where we test with Panoz.

[Hugewally]

Thats what I was getting at, as you've told me that a number of times...

[ger80]

Originally Posted by vorsprung

Even Lavaggi used a 40% wind tunnel model
Radical is probably the only current LMP which didn't use a scale model for development.

Radical used one of the best wind tunnels that are availble - Peters brain

[JAG]

I take it no one expects Acura to turn up with anything but an open car, or would they have evaluated both, and watched with interest the 908's performance relative to the open R10.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by JAG

I take it no one expects Acura to turn up with anything but an open car, or would they have evaluated both, and watched with interest the 908's performance relative to the open R10.

Most prudent would be the latter I believe.
Also will it tie in to a marketing drive? Where they would possibly, if not immediately but soon, run it as a 'EVO'? Creating a chassis that will only require a nose and the future V-10 for it to become an 'EVO-NSX' (replacement)?


L.P.

[broadrun96]

I wouldn't be surprised if they were asking for hints at the direction they should be going from the ACO, not the full specs early but what kind of adjustments/balancing would be used between coupes and spyders. I was leaning toward them tossing their hat in the evo-coupe rules to bring the Acura brand worldwide, but with the delays on the new NSX who knows, maybe a spyder with allowances to make it a coupe if so desired.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

I wouldn't be surprised if they were asking for hints at the direction they should be going from the ACO, not the full specs early but what kind of adjustments/balancing would be used between coupes and spyders. I was leaning toward them tossing their hat in the evo-coupe rules to bring the Acura brand worldwide, but with the delays on the new NSX who knows, maybe a spyder with allowances to make it a coupe if so desired.

I, like Mike, think that it is probable that it is already in build. link


L.P.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by JAG

I take it no one expects Acura to turn up with anything but an open car, or would they have evaluated both, and watched with interest the 908's performance relative to the open R10.

Im not sure if there is a distinct advantage .

The Pug has a slight aero advantage over the Audi , while the Audi can have slightly quicker pit stops over the Pug in a driver change situ .

I think it might weigh out ..... but Im not that sure about it .

Im happy to see a mix of open topper's and Coupe's .

[cmk]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Not every team has the budget or staff of Audi or Pug or GM

Does Pesca or Courage build 3/4 scale Mock ups?

I have been to most of the NASCAR race shops ( I do like in the heart of NASCAR country ) Many Shops do build mock ups, but not that many. and they are full scale on older chassies.

We have three wind tunnels here in North Carolina. Two any one can rent and one is on the Penske Race complex for all HIS teams.


Funny how ppl want to see all the scientific advances in racing then call for budget reductions?

While the other issues have been commented on already, I will only point out that Pescarolo is famous for not using wind tunnels at all. If he could afford them, I wager it would be a scale model only that would be implemented. As it is, those privateer teams do a lot of their work on runways instead.

[ss_collins]

F1 and NASCAR( top teams) are a totally differnt league then sports cars.

not true... a works LMP outfit will likely outspend a Hendrick

[ger80]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Im not sure if there is a distinct advantage .

The Pug has a slight aero advantage over the Audi , while the Audi can have slightly quicker pit stops over the Pug in a driver change situ .

I think it might weigh out ..... but Im not that sure about it .

Im happy to see a mix of open topper's and Coupe's .

Yes, but that changes if the one gun tire change is wriiten in the 2009 regulations.