[WEC] FIA World Endurance Championship

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by trickyd

You think the French are wanting the British two win, anything? Sounds far fetched to me!

If it will put money in their pockets, nothing is "far fetched". Never underestimate the power of the mighty dollar/pound/franc (fill in what ever currency suits your fancy)

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by TF110

If they wanted the Aston to win they wouldn't have done anything to it. The Ferrari won Spa but it didn't change bop. Porsche were just as fast at Spa on laptimes, but they got a bigger restrictor. So who is really the beneficiary?

My God! Do you really think 10Kg will make the slightest bit of difference? There is a 15Kg difference between Jorg Bergmeisters weight and Patrick Long's. Do you think that Porsche was concerned by this?
The ACO's move is nothing but a Sleight of hand. It makes it seem that they are "correcting" the mistake, without really doing anything of substance about it.

As for Porsche: If you read the Porsche vs Ferrari thread, you will see that I do not support nor advocate a restrictor break for Porsche. It saddens me to see them relying on this to be competitive.

[Spyderman]

I understand the need for BoP. There just has to be some limits imposed. There has to be some goal posts established. It is simply ridiculous to allow an engine that is 12.5% bigger in capacity to have bigger (or now -the same size) restrictors than the smaller engine.

[TF110]

Yet they were the fastest car at Spa in the race in terms of lap times. Why complain about it if its going to happen? And why assume teams are 'relying' on bop? Its more like teams purposely gunning for bop. They have the information we have and more. Theres only so much teams can hide, then theres only so much the ACO can do. No team is entirely honest nor entirely off pace.

[Spyderman]

I did warn you that I'm very cynical. Perhaps I have been "around the block once too often". I find it harder and harder with each passing day to continue to believe in Santa Clause. I wish it was not the case.

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

The Astons did not win Spa because it was not in their interest to do so (With pending BoP for Le Mans on the horizon). They (Aston) did what they had to do for the championship, and that was to score podium finishes.

The same logic can be applied in reverse. It may be that Ferrari did not want to win at Silverstone, for the exact same reason.

It's all academic, anyway, because clearly Corvette is going to win!!

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

The same logic can be applied in reverse. It may be that Ferrari did not want to win at Silverstone, for the exact same reason.

It's all academic, anyway, because clearly Corvette is going to win!!

Perhaps, but Ferrari did not win Silverstone, so they needed the points.

[deggis]

Does the GTE BoP announcements mean no BoP for P1? (Just thinking they would have been announced at the same time?) Seemed unlikely, but since there was some politicking after Spa...

[TF110]

They have a couple weeks left to make a decision. I'm betting they do.

[deggis]

The test day in two weeks, would be really late changes... And I think typically all BoPs have been announced at the same time.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by kurski

Interview with FIA WEC Race Director Eduardo Freitas.

Originally Posted by deggis

Lets just say that nice to attach a face to the voice we hear SO OFTEN.

So true Deggis

I didnt know that Yannick Dalmas was the WEC driver adviser, I was wondering what he (and other drivers retired) are doing with their time after racing.

[FstrthnU]

The current standings after Le Mans

LMP1 - Audi obviously continues to extend lead over Toyota. #2 car is now leading the championship. #8 Toyota closes to within 1 point of the #1 Audi. Strakka Racing closes gap with Rebellion slightly.

LMP2: OAK Racing continues their domination and the #35 car moves into 1st. Pecom and G-Drive Racing fall further behind.

GT Pro: Porsche moves into the lead but only 2 points ahead of Ferrari. In the Team Trophy Porsche takes 3 point lead over Aston Martin. #92 Porsche takes over the lead from the #97 Aston Martin. AF Corse falls further behind.

GT Am: IMSA moves into lead by 1 point over Larbre, also takes lead in Driver's championship. 8Star loses a bit of ground to the leaders. Fate of the #95 for the rest of the season is unknown.

The big question will be whether Toyota can repeat last year's mid-season surge and challenge Audi for the LMP1 titles this year.

[Simmi]

I think it says a lot that the WEC standings haven't really been mentioned.

Obviously it was a heavy and emotional race. But I think there's more work everyone connected with the series can do there so that the closing out the race is directly related to the WEC.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

LMP1 - Audi obviously continues to extend lead over Toyota. #2 car is now leading the championship. #8 Toyota closes to within 1 point of the #1 Audi. Strakka Racing closes gap with Rebellion slightly.

In P1, it is probably the Manufacturer's Championship that matters more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_WE...7_Championship

That doesn't look good for Toyota.

Still don't like that the Peugeot pullout aftermath rule (only best finishing car collects points) was never changed back to how it was (both cars count)...

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Simmi

I think it says a lot that the WEC standings haven't really been mentioned.

Obviously it was a heavy and emotional race. But I think there's more work everyone connected with the series can do there so that the closing out the race is directly related to the WEC.

I agree. Eurosport barely mentioned it (they do show highlights of WEC and occasionally live hours too?!), expect maybe the commentators by accident. It is also weird that most of ACO-made news and stuff is on a completely separate website and not really on fiawec.com, so it is like even ACO wants to keep them separate.

If I was an average viewer I'd be really confused by the ten (10) titles in WEC and why they follow no logic (why GT Drivers title is "World Cup" while P2/GTAm titles are "Trophies"?) and asking why Audi/Toyota and Rebellion doesn't really battle for the same points despite that they're in a same class. Oh wait... I'm not an average viewer but I am still asking why.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by deggis

Still don't like that the Peugeot pullout aftermath rule (only best finishing car collects points) was never changed back to how it was (both cars count)...

I like the current rule better. The only way to maximize the number of points you get is by winning. If two cars counted, then a team could finish 2nd and 3rd and get more points than the winner, which doesn't make sense to me.

[zanfo zanfagni]

I think that being the motorsport endurance a discipline that put first the team ability than the single driver, I think that both cars should score points. The 2012 best placed car only scoring points (and the 6 best results one) was a sort of regulamentar trick to let toyota fairly fight for the title even if using just one car. It was a reasonable rule for 2012, but given by the fact that toyota this season has 2 full season cars, should be used the 2011 ILMC 2 scoring cars x manufacturers rule. The only thing that i didn't appreciate of that rule was that the oreca 908HDi could score points as well, a bit unfair because peugeot could earn points with 3 cars and audi just with 2.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Salamus

I like the current rule better. The only way to maximize the number of points you get is by winning. If two cars counted, then a team could finish 2nd and 3rd and get more points than the winner, which doesn't make sense to me.

It's team sport, so I don't see anything wrong with that. As it is right now, it sort of renders 3rd and below places irrelevant as for the manufacturer's championship they are really irrelevant finishes.

Maybe Toyota's confirmation of two cars came too late to amend the rule back how it was.

[Salamus]

Yes, it is a team sport but at the same time, you should only score points if you are the best on your team. It would make sense for two cars to count if there were 4 or 5 of the same car. But that is not the case, both Audi and Toyota only have 2 cars, so to me, only the best of the two deserves to get points for the manufacturer.

[zanfo zanfagni]

Originally Posted by Salamus

Yes, it is a team sport but at the same time, you should only score points if you are the best on your team. It would make sense for two cars to count if there were 4 or 5 of the same car. But that is not the case, both Audi and Toyota only have 2 cars, so to me, only the best of the two deserves to get points for the manufacturer.

then, is better the classification system used in gt pro, gt am and lmp2 team trophy. Each car/line-up takes points and who has more points at the end of the season win. In this way audi can use also 4 cars against 2 toyota, if one of the 2 toyota makes more points than everyone else, toyota wins manufacturers cup.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

then, is better the classification system used in gt pro, gt am and lmp2 team trophy. Each car/line-up takes points and who has more points at the end of the season win. In this way audi can use also 4 cars against 2 toyota, if one of the 2 toyota makes more points than everyone else, toyota wins manufacturers cup.

That is what the Driver Standings is for.

I like the current system and others like the other system, but it doesn't really matter as long as a repeat of 2008 LMS does not happen.

[zanfo zanfagni]

Originally Posted by Salamus

That is what the Driver Standings is for.

I like the current system and others like the other system, but it doesn't really matter as long as a repeat of 2008 LMS does not happen.

I explain better, if you watch here the gt-pro, gt-am or lmp2 team trophy classification

http://www.fiawec.com/courses/classification.html

each car scores points according to the position finished in race. So if in the lmp1 manufacturers cup only the best placed car of the two, score points, with this classification each car takes the points that deserves. The title is won by the best car of the winning team. I think that a system like this should be used also for lmp1 manufacturers cup.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by zanfo zanfagni

I explain better, if you watch here the gt-pro, gt-am or lmp2 team trophy classification

http://www.fiawec.com/courses/classification.html

each car scores points according to the position finished in race. So if in the lmp1 manufacturers cup only the best placed car of the two, score points, with this classification each car takes the points that deserves. The title is won by the best car of the winning team. I think that a system like this should be used also for lmp1 manufacturers cup.

I understood what you were saying the first time. And like I said the first time, your idea is basically what the Driver Standings is for...the best car.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Salamus

Yes, it is a team sport but at the same time, you should only score points if you are the best on your team. It would make sense for two cars to count if there were 4 or 5 of the same car. But that is not the case, both Audi and Toyota only have 2 cars, so to me, only the best of the two deserves to get points for the manufacturer.

Lets look at the this way too: Audi is 1st and 2nd, Toyota 3rd. Does it make sense that a better car (2nd place) gets no points while a worse car (3rd) gets points?

The "both entries count" system is pretty much the standard in all FIA and other championships where it is mandatory to enter two cars.

Originally Posted by Salamus

I like the current system and others like the other system, but it doesn't really matter as long as a repeat of 2008 LMS does not happen.

More rounds now, so likelihood of that is now smaller.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by deggis

Lets look at the this way too: Audi is 1st and 2nd, Toyota 3rd. Does it make sense that a better car (2nd place) gets no points while a worse car (3rd) gets points?

The "both entries count" system is pretty much the standard in all FIA and other championships where it is mandatory to enter two cars.

The Toyota finished 3rd, so it only gets 15 points. The Audi in 2nd basically stole 3 points from Toyota. And Audi finished first so they get the full 25.

Audi - 25
Toyota - 15

I don't see a problem.