[LM24] Nissan return to Le Mans (G56)

[Mal]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

It will be interesting to see what type of electric storage system Nissan use as I don't think you could pack enough batteries in to do the job. I would go for a flywheel based system, I am not sure how much capacity capacitors have.

They must have something worked out otherwise they would not have entered.

One assumes they will be building a car significantly lighter than 900Kg

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Mal

I dont agree:

Just look at the cynics and naysayers on the Toyota thread when Toyota have done exactly as they originally announced and more.....

Toyota announced a) a return to LMP1 b) a time (same for Porsche). Nissan has announced neither.

With past examples I meant rumors and "hints" of other manufacturers in recent years that have not materialized.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by deggis

Toyota announced a) a return to LMP1 b) a time. Nissan has announced neither.

With past examples I meant rumors and "hints" of other manufacturers in recent years that have not materialized.

We will just have to wait and see - but I beg to differ as I think this is more than 'rumour and hint.... There was plenty of rumour and hint about Toyota for several years before they made the announcement - Nissan have got themselves involved in the much more measured, official and visible way which they are continuing to develop.

[GT6]

A little disappointed at the news but what the heck it certainly got everyone talking and lets hope it does lead to something more that just a 56 entry

[Gingers4Justice]

I don't mind so long as an entirely silent LMP1 car isn't the end result. Having the first half a dozen cars whisper past when the tricola drops at Le Mans is still something I haven't got used to and I don't think I ever will. It will sadden me when the front-running cars at Le Mans are quieter still.

You can call me backwards, a dinosaur or whatever but I go to Le Mans to enjoy myself and forget the world. For that to happen I need my senses stimulated. Take away the sound, you take away half the fun. If I only watched on TV I'd probably not be bothered.

When I watched the preview video I was quite exciting because you could hear an internal combustion engine revving up. I find it odd that they chose that noise in the teaser.

That may sound strange to some but this is my immediate reaction.

[TF110]

Toyota's (TMG's) EV P002 has 350kw from it's two axial flux motors... http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/en/...-pikes-peak-en
I wonder if Nissan will go a route like this.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

When I watched the preview video I was quite exciting because you could hear an internal combustion engine revving up. I find it odd that they chose that noise in the teaser.

It's the PR problem silent cars face. Just ask Peugeot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgU7A0BFR2M).

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Mal

I read this on DSC...

"Nissan are looking to return to LMP1 with a factory programme – There is an internal company timetable for this but no announcement yet."

.. and I have commented on it believing it could be true. Once again the cynics and naysayers on here are dissing everything that doesn't involve exactly what they want.

That is because there is a big IF, or a few actually. First the performance of their tech must satisfy Nissan's bosses in 2014's g56 run, then they must successfully negotiate the rule change to make it competitive in P1, which is going to be very difficult, if it's all-electric. And there are a million things that could go wrong at any stage. And only if things go completely their way, in the best(?) case scenario we may well end up with a big topic for arguing, i.e. Le Mans being bent over to 'prove the supremacy' of a trendy technology, which will cast serious doubts over the race results like it did when Audi steamrolled Le Mans with their diesel.

Nissan gained a lot of publicity for really nothing substantial by simply jumping on the DW bandwagon (and quite late at that), now they're back in g56 to repeat the feat. Looking how they're trying to change LMP1 rules to accommodate something 'different' means more of the same: not a lot of competing on equal terms, lots of publicity.
This could potentially damage the sport more than strengthen it!

EDIT: sorry, didn't see the new dedicated thread on this http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136730

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by deggis

It's the PR problem silent cars face. Just ask Peugeot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgU7A0BFR2M).

It's something rulemakers and carmakers need to give some thought. If the ACO thinks they'll get 250,000 fans watching silent cars, they need to think again. It just wouldn't be the same for me.

The worrying thing is, I've never heard anything from the ACO which shows they recognise this as an issue. And furthermore, I read something pretty disturbing in Autosport (17th January).

[Ben] Bowlby, however, brushed this aside claiming "sound is not as important to the future of motorsport as it was to its past. He cited difficulty in hearing trackside commentary over the roar of contemporary petrol engines and highlighted how the business-to-business opportunities at race meetings are confined to the gaps in between the action owing to intrusive noise levels even in the smartest hospitality units.

This makes me so disheartened. Disheartened that those behind the pitwall don't understand why I like motorsport. The noise is not an inconvenience to me - it's part of the show. And the bit about the sound of the cars getting in the way of business I find offensive. I'm sorry my hobbie gets in the way of you making lots of money.

Why don't we ban chanting and celebrating at soccer matches. Then we might be able to have a conversation with the person next to us and hear the referee's whistle. Wouldn't that be civilised?

[Mal]

The move towards 'trendy technology' is what is making Le Mans popular again with the manufacturers - which I think is a good thing. By its very nature everytime a manufacturer wants to bring along something new then it is inevitable that the ACO will have to set the parameters and rules to control it.

[GT6]

Even F1 which is really just a massive money making machine appreciates that the sound of racing cars is important, so the ACO and others must take note yes to alternative technology but care must be taken that in the process you do not destroy the heart of the beast

[PascaLM]

We will see if the lack of noise is balanced by the visual performance. I'm not sure that a full electric powered car will make less noise than a R18.
I remember, one year at the Le Mans 10tenth meeting, Ayse and I were joking about some acoustic advertising from the future electric cars.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Mal

The move towards 'trendy technology' is what is making Le Mans popular again with the manufacturers - which I think is a good thing. By its very nature everytime a manufacturer wants to bring along something new then it is inevitable that the ACO will have to set the parameters and rules to favour it.

fixed that for you Cause that's the pre-condition of entering most of the time. You see, big manufacturers don't come to compete, they come to win.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by TF110

Toyota's (TMG's) EV P002 has 350kw from it's two axial flux motors... http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/en/...-pikes-peak-en
I wonder if Nissan will go a route like this.

That is nothing. The Lola-Drayson B12/69EV has 640 kW in total

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

We will see if the lack of noise is balanced by the visual performance.

How exactly? Cars in the past were mostly better sounding AND much better looking, imo. So far the two g56 entries that we've seen look down right offensive.

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

This makes me so disheartened. Disheartened that those behind the pitwall don't understand why I like motorsport.

+1

[gustavobamba]

Any pictures of the car in Le Mans this year????

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

This makes me so disheartened. Disheartened that those behind the pitwall don't understand why I like motorsport.

Maybe they do - but they also understand what they need to do to survive.

Besides one or two EV will add to the variety. I would agree that I wouldn't want to see a grid full, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Mal

I read this on DSC...

"Nissan are looking to return to LMP1 with a factory programme – There is an internal company timetable for this but no announcement yet."

.. and I have commented on it believing it could be true. Once again the cynics and naysayers on here are dissing everything that doesn't involve exactly what they want.

Yes, looking to return. If whatever this actually is, works perfectly well, and can be made competitive to the other cars, if the NISMO board approves it, and if they can somehow convince the ACO to change their rules to accomodate them. That is a lot of if.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

That's as maybe - but they already build and sell all electric - the article you link to talks of lower than hoped for sales - a succesful racing programme might be just the thing to change that - In not a disimilar way as Audi achieved with TDI, changing the public image of an unfashionable tech solution.

Honestly guys you can choose to see this as some sort of cloak and dagger non programme if you wish, but you'd be wrong.

Nissan's Altima will be available as a Hybrid later this year, for 2014 model year. That isn't a maybe. Saying that Hybrid technology isn't a part of Nissan's business plan is false, as is the claim that they won't go Hybrid racing, because they aren't/won't be in that market. Nissan's claim is false.

If you do go to Nissan's website though, you can see that they are planning on Hydrogen/Electric vehicles more than Hybird. This is likely what this car will be.
http://www.nissanusa.com/future-and-...-vehicles.html

[NaBUru38]

And the crystal ball award goes to...

Originally Posted by pach233

*I guess it could be some funky Garage 56 announcement or a JukeLeaf Electric car single make WEC support series type of thing....

Originally Posted by deltawing

Nissan Motorsport twitted two days ago: "Thanks for all the comments about Tuesday's announcement. Here's a thought. Do we ever do what everyone expects us to do?"

Originally Posted by Simmi

The statement says everything, and at the same time absolutely nothing.

They are taking joy that fans are guessing. Darren Cox said that himself in reply to me and JAG on Twitter. A bit of mis-direction and smoke and mirrors just adds to the anticipation.

Well, in fact the phrase said more than saying nothing. It hinted that it wasn't a regular effort.

[ArnageWRC]

Initially, I was disappointed. After thinking it over, it's okay news, not great news.
They are still committed to Sportscars/WEC - so that is good, the more Manufacturers the better!!

I understand the view of people who think Nissan are milking the publicity of Le Mans without actually taking part.

What I do want to see though, is discussion of the future rules/ regs of the sport. The 2014 regs are too restrictive - who decided on them? I'd like to see a joint top class; LMP1 v GTPrototypes.....so those Manufacturers who prefer to use a Road car template can, say a SuperGT type car. Will it happen? Not likely.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

So a major global manufacturer announcing a return to the highest echelons of endurance racing isn't worth the hype?

Really????

Honestly guys words fail me.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

2014 LMP1 is all about hybrids - that only works as a tech showcase IF YOU BUILD HYBRIDS.

How about the 2007 Nissan Altima? That's six years of experience.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

How about the 2007 Nissan Altima? That's six years of experience.

Actually, they stopped selling the Altima Hybrid after the 2011 model year... the Hybrid portion of the engine was actually just Toyota licensed technology and parts. The will start with the Hybrid using their own tech again later this year, with the 2014 model year.

[SALEEN S7R]

Don't know if this has already been asked or not, but does anyone care to make a guess as to just how competitive this entry might be? The Deltawing was pretty fast, how close to the front of the grid can we realistically expect this entry to get?