[WEC] WEC 2021 season

[carbsmith]

The Alpine doesn't necessarily have better aero, Rebellion specifically didn't want to use this body configuration at Spa last year but are obliged to run it all season this year. You'd still think the LMP1 car would have downforce in its LM configuration than the LMP2 car because of having been designed for a car with more power, but we don't really know the specifics and the both cars have picked up similar trap speed despite losing 80hp and ~100hp respectively.

Remember the more handicapped Toyota was only 1 second faster than LMP2 around here last year anyways.

On one hand I feel like Spa may be a track where especially with this power level this aero configuration may be preferable for the LMP2 cars, the fact they're quicker in the tight part of the track makes me question if they'd be ahead more at a tighter track.

[tux]

Madness when as a fan you need to learn so much, have so much knowledge of technical regulations and a maths degree to understand whats going on. I used to love sportscar racing but i haven't a clue what's going on anymore and im someone that spends every day checking this website, Twitter etc. Imagine being someone new to the sport.

[Mike E]

It's testing. We won't really know their pace until the race.

The Alpine has more power, slightly less weight and probably considerably better aero than the LMP2s. Remember this from Racecar Engineering:
"By the third round at Silverstone in 2018, the Rebellion R13 was running the high downforce package. ‘There is so much downforce in this car, much more than the LMP2. Even in the Le Mans [low downforce] aero configuration, we’ve got more downforce than the LMP2 has in high downforce configuration,’ concludes Hayden."

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/...ical-analysis/

[Lutzvic]

It seems hypercars are not so hyper........
LMP2 is already down to 530 HP.....if they lower it again to let the 'hypercar' pass them, then I reached my point of exit for WEC.....
It is ridiculous already.....

[canaglia]

Guess the first quick fix will be a weight cut for lmh, alpine can get easily to 900kg, have some concerns about toyota able to go down to 1000kg without consequences

[canaglia]

g-drive oreca just set 2.04.1, guess is quite possible oreca 07 could run in low 2.03 in qualifying pace or even faster, at the moment toyotas are in 2.04.8

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Guess the first quick fix will be a weight cut for lmh, alpine can get easily to 900kg, have some concerns about toyota able to go down to 1000kg without consequences

We can run a lot more HP.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Napolis

We can run a lot more HP.

I know, but getting more power doesn't fix the actual situation since lmh are already faster than lmp2 in S1 and S3* made mainly by kemmel and blanchimont long straights but seem to be dramatically slower in S2 due the lack of downforce.
This morning session:

fastest lmp2 S2 56.219
fastest lmh S2 57.788
that's almost comical!

Not to consider that despite having 170hp more, toyota best top speed is just about 7km/h higher than best lmp2 top speed. Basically nothing is this better top speed is achieved only at the very end of the straights.

*(in S3 only slightly faster)

[gsmith2424]

With the way things are going I wouldn't be surprised to see an LMP2 on the podium at every race and maybe a race win if things pan out right.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Examples cited include:

Strakka Racing Make History With Hungaroring Win

1995 24 Hours of Le Mans

2007-2008 ALMS, particularly Penske racing in LMP2.

Also the Acuras. In fact, in 06 or 07, I remember the InterSport Lola overtaking the factory Audis!

See also the stupid pace of the Group 5 Porsche 935s in the 1970s.

[helgi]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Also the Acuras. In fact, in 06 or 07, I remember the InterSport Lola overtaking the factory Audis!

See also the stupid pace of the Group 5 Porsche 935s in the 1970s.

As for ALMS it was made for the stupid show only - LMP2 were never that close to LMP1 in ELMS and Le Mans. So Hungaroring race is the sole example. And I'm sure there should be some explanation for it. With the actual rate it seems that LMP2 are close to overall victories even in Le Mans (in 2021 especially, when reliability issues can strike the leaders, while Oreca fleet are in enormously safe mode with engines detuned). Still it's ridiculous to see more powerful Oreca to loose time against less powerful ones.

Group 5 cars' speed was not a surprise since almost all manufacturers were in favour of silhouettes in early 70's and Group 6 was left mostly for privateers. And that opened a possibility for a certain French manufacturer to be helped by ACO to achieve a "tremendous" victory.

[WyldStallion]

The sport is "racing" for a reason. Let them race. Its rather exciting actually. Not something to fret about. Better than the predictable results of the handicapping or the EoT from recent years.

Keep in mind that over the course of 6 hours the Toyota drivers are a superior squad no doubt. The LMP2 teams wont have Juan Pablo Montoya and Felip Alberquerque caliber drivers the whole way.

I say give the LMP2 cars a chance to make the overall battle interesting in 2021.

[tux]

Cetilar Ferrari destroyed in an accident. Not sure they'll be coming back to SPA for the prologue again.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by WyldStallion

Keep in mind that over the course of 6 hours the Toyota drivers are a superior squad no doubt. The LMP2 teams wont have Juan Pablo Montoya and Felip Alberquerque caliber drivers the whole way.

There are actually some pretty decent drivers in LMP2, however some are paired with less safe hands......

[joeb]

Originally Posted by tux

Cetilar Ferrari destroyed in an accident. Not sure they'll be coming back to SPA for the prologue again.

It has been a rough test for a lot of teams so far. Always is kind of sad when there are bad incidents in practice....

And the Project 1 car that crashed yesterday has been withdrawn

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/0...n-trouble.html

[canaglia]

The prologue tell us that LMH are nowhere close to lmp2 about downforce and slow-mid corners speed, hope to see some onboard with telemetry during race and qualifying, just to compare lmh and lmp2 speeds on pouhon.
It's not something that could easily be fixed or "balanced" since toyota and R13 got their cars already homologated and SCG007 needs however to follow same aero regs. directives.
It's a comical situation, because all this mess could be easily predicted considering how close were 930kg/600hp lmp2s to a nearly unrestricted R13 100kg lighter and 100hp more powerful as seen at Spa last August and proportionally how huge was going to be the performance drop from lmp1 to LMH.
Guessing that it's unlikely 07 could be made any heavier, I think lmp2 will get another powercut, while LMH could get some extra power that won't however fix the lack of downforce. R13 could lose some weight easily, don't know if 007 and GR010 could go down to 1000kg with the same ease.
If first race was on a track like silverstone, today LMHs would be helpless.

About ALMS, there is to say that before 2008, porsche rs spyder was <800kg heavy and there was penske behind the 2006-2008 work program. In 2010 acura lmp2 and porsche rs spyder were regularly beating lmp1 teams because highcroft and MMPR were much better teams than intersport and drayson.
Not to consider that twisty and short american circuits like lime rock, mid-ohio, mosport, laguna seca etc... were suitting better for lmp2 compared to european-like circuits.

[joeb]

S365 has a story focusing on hypercar speeds with lots of quotes from the team principals.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...d-be-reviewed/

If we are looking for a silver lining, we have been noting the pace of the LMP2 vs the hypercar, maybe it is worth noting that the Alpine is in pretty good position compared to the Toyotas.

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by joeb

S365 has a story focusing on hypercar speeds with lots of quotes from the team principals.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...d-be-reviewed/

If we are looking for a silver lining, we have been noting the pace of the LMP2 vs the hypercar, maybe it is worth noting that the Alpine is in pretty good position compared to the Toyotas.

The silver lining is that the prototype category is interesting for the first time in at least 4 years.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Also the Acuras. In fact, in 06 or 07, I remember the InterSport Lola overtaking the factory Audis!

Usually with Jon before he burned the tires up and often blew the engines. Rarely stayed in front long.

[helgi]

I can officially celebrate the fact that GT500 became the fastest sportscar class at last. That's the only silver lining I can observe.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by helgi

I can officially celebrate the fact that GT500 became the fastest sportscar class at last. That's the only silver lining I can observe.

Sort of, GT500 in fuji use to score pole position in high 1.27 - 1.28.
Same circuit, 600hp spec lmp2 used to score pole position in 1.29, but dpi cars should be a bit faster considering better michelin tires and the extra torque and hp.
It's hard to speculate which is the fastest sportscar at the moment between GT500 and dpi.... at similiar overall power, dpi should have more torque but less cornering speed despite being almost 100kg lighter, GT500 should have an overall better cornering speed because of more downforce and extra grip given by state of art bridgestone/michelin but are heavier.
For sure dpi's would obliterate any other lmp-like prototype at the moment, by far.

[Lutzvic]

Seeing the sandbagging BoP game in Spa...I believe to understand the absence of SCG from the SPA round........
On the other hand as a fan of RACING it is tragical what we see....
a non restricted LMP2 would easily beat any 'hypercar' at any track in any conditions... for the fraction of costs....
LMP2 will disappear and we will see hypercars (LMH and mostly LMDH) cruising around slower....is it evolution? is it a new golden era? I doubt it..

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Lutzvic

Seeing the sandbagging BoP game in Spa...I believe to understand the absence of SCG from the SPA round........
On the other hand as a fan of RACING it is tragical what we see....
a non restricted LMP2 would easily beat any 'hypercar' at any track in any conditions... for the fraction of costs....
LMP2 will disappear and we will see hypercars (LMH and mostly LMDH) cruising around slower....is it evolution? is it a new golden era? I doubt it..

nailed! that would be the ultimate fail of LMH.
A heavily restricted half € mln worth 2017 lmp2 prototype with spec parts and engine doing better than a full bespoke and work prototype costing at least x5-6. Everything to be slower than 2011 lmp1.
As Leupen from toyota said, they can't expect to improve 4-5s from nothing since they are aware to be in the planned LMH performance window.
LMH = unperformant and expensive. Chepeau ?* ACO.

[Mike E]

Detailed discussion with Toyota here.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/0...ulemakers.html

[greenmachinets040]

Originally Posted by Lutzvic

Seeing the sandbagging BoP game in Spa...I believe to understand the absence of SCG from the SPA round........
On the other hand as a fan of RACING it is tragical what we see....
a non restricted LMP2 would easily beat any 'hypercar' at any track in any conditions... for the fraction of costs....
LMP2 will disappear and we will see hypercars (LMH and mostly LMDH) cruising around slower....is it evolution? is it a new golden era? I doubt it..

Something went horribly wrong here. What is more, Rob Leupen said, that they already saw the LMP2 pace at the winter tests..How long should we wait until ACO does something about it?

Seems like they forgot to slow LMP2 down. Unthinkable in 21 century top tier motorsport!