[WEC] 2016 WEC Discussion

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Artur

Aren't the costs more up to the shipping expenses? Aren't the wages of the employers fixed for the year? What are the extra costs other than using more tyres, fuel, spare parts and etc?

As long as the tracks are paying the high hosting fees, and thus paying for the shipping, I always thought the extra events weren't a problem, financially-wise.

This is a genuine question, btw. I really can't think of other costs that an extra event would bring, right now. Maybe I need some sleep

Perhaps the teams staff are paid hourly? Also, there are food and hotel costs, and travel costs for the staff themselves (airlines, rental cars, etc).

[Artur]

Thanks guys

I guess the costs hurts more the private, LMP2 and GT teams. The big manufacturers spends $100-150m(some claims more) a year, so that might not represent much in the big picture.

It will be interesting to see the attendance and overall local media coverage of the event. If it generates some publicity/marketing, then that can cover a part of the costs for VAG/Toyota too.(maybe FIA will pay for cheap hotels and etc for the others?)

[TF110]

Were forgetting two big entries missing, Nissan. If theyre good for next year that bumps the entry list up.

[Coach Ep]

Already included in the expected 35 cars.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Already included in the expected 35 cars.

Im talking about meeting that minimum, which as of Shanghai is 32. Including Nissan laves just 1 season long entry to hit their 'limit'. Not bad imo. Sure itd be nice to have more but a minimum 34 cars is a great size.

[joeb]

DSC had a little snippet about the upcoming Bahrain driver test, and it made it sound like the teams weren't necessarily involved with determining who tests their cars. Did I misunderstand that, or did the ACO/FIA actually decide who gets to test?

[Coach Ep]

nm - I'm repeating myself...

[Coach Ep]

It was time to put all the numbers in a spreadsheet!

[B]2016				LM24	WEC
	P1			13	11
	Audi	WEC	2
	Audi 3	extra	1
	Kolles	WEC	1
	Nissan	WEC	2
	Nissan 3	extra
	Porsche	WEC	2
auto	Porsche 3	extra	1
	Rebellion	WEC	2
	Toyota	WEC	2
	P2			20	12
	AF Racing/SMP	WEC	2
	ESM	WEC	2
	G-Drive	WEC	2
	Greaves 2	WEC	1
	Jota 1	WEC	1
	KCMG 2	WEC	1
	Morand	WEC	1
	Signatech 1	WEC	1
	Strakka	WEC	1
auto (AsLMS)	Eurasia	AsLMS	1
auto (AsLMS)	Race Performance	AsLMS	1
auto	Greaves	ELMS	1
	Jota 2	ELMS
	Ibanez	ELMS
	Krohn	ELMS/IMSA
auto	LNT	ELMS	1
	Murphy	ELMS
	Panis/Tech 9	ELMS
	Signatech 2	ELMS
	Algarve Pro	ELMS/AsLMS
	Pegasus	ELMS/AsLMS	1
auto	Garage 56	extra	1
auto	KCMG 1	extra	1
auto (IMSA)	Shank	IMSA	1
	GTE-Pro			13	9
	AF Corse	WEC	2
	Aston Martin	WEC	3
	Ford	WEC	2
	Porsche	WEC	2
auto	Corvette	IMSA	2
	Ford	IMSA	2
	GTE-Am			12	8
	AF Corse	WEC	2
auto	AF Racing/SMP	WEC	1
	AMR	WEC	2
	Labre	WEC	1
	Porsche	WEC	2
auto (IMSA)	Riley	IMSA	1
	Scuderia Corse	IMSA
auto	Formula Racing	ELMS	1
	JMW	ELMS
auto	TDS	ELMS	1
auto (AsLMS)	?	?	1
auto	Marc VDS
			total	58	40

Explanations
- all 2015 entrants return with the exact same number of cars (this will of course turn out to be incorrect but is the base for this table - besides 90% will be correct anyway so the bigger picture still stand )
- Nissan only granted 2 WEC + LM24 entries after 2015 fiasco
- in WEC P2, AF Racing/SMP (2 cars) and Greaves return, Jota joins, 2nd KCMG car not full time entry
- Labre in either GT-Pro or GTE-Am
- IMSA auto invites set for convenience purposes, this can easily be swapped (Shank <-> Krohn and Riley <-> Scuderia Corse) without affecting the numbers
- AsLMS prototype auto invites based on current standings in P2 after one race (again, the teams can easily be swapped, the numbers will not be affected)
- Leaving out some of the likely P2 applications will be like (Russian?) roulette! There will be around 5 based on my calculations, you can pick any of the non WEC runners, non auto invites.

Of course, (surprise) new entry/cancellation announcements will throw much of my table into the water! No sweat, I'll update when possible/necessary.

Biggest outcome might be the potential number of WEC entry applications - it looks like a couple of loyal ACO series runner(s) will be (partly) missing the boat... Time to raise that entry cap again!

[TheDude]

Dont forget G56 and you could scrap VDS

[tux]

Originally Posted by joeb

Perhaps the teams staff are paid hourly? Also, there are food and hotel costs, and travel costs for the staff themselves (airlines, rental cars, etc).

Trust me, most staff (mechanic wise) wont be being paid an hourly rate. There are so many extra costs that are not apparent like travel, freight, car insurance costs (more for am teams than works), hospitality costs, wages for pro drivers. Not to mention the obvious like additional parts, travel + hotel costs, car rentals etc.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by TheDude

Dont forget G56 and you could scrap VDS

Garage 56 is on there (and counted towards the total) - Marc VDS does not count (as you can see in the table) but is, officially, still on the list (unless the duke already notified the ACO he's not taking it up).

I've also added Dragonspeed and Jumbo/Van Eerd in P2 to my own worksheet (work in progress obviously), as unlikely as they may seem to file an entry at this point.

[Coach Ep]

More on BR/AF Racing/SMP's plans: http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/b...ram-with-br01/

[chernaudi]

It's already known that the ACO/FIA have insisted that Audi, Porsche, and Toyota run a rookie driver at the Bahrain test following the race, but are the other entries voluntary? Several LMP2 teams want to test there and Porsche have voluntarily added JPM to the test will also have both GTE factory cars there, and AMR will also have two GTE cars at the test.

And though the LMP1 teams didn't play any direct part in the driver selection, I'd have to say that Mitch Evans having Mark Webber as a manager/mentor probably played a part in the ACO selecting him to go to Porsche.

[Coach Ep]

Funny they apparently can't race on Saturday yet testing is no issue...

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

It's already known that the ACO/FIA have insisted that Audi, Porsche, and Toyota run a rookie driver at the Bahrain test following the race, but are the other entries voluntary? Several LMP2 teams want to test there and Porsche have voluntarily added JPM to the test will also have both GTE factory cars there, and AMR will also have two GTE cars at the test.

And though the LMP1 teams didn't play any direct part in the driver selection, I'd have to say that Mitch Evans having Mark Webber as a manager/mentor probably played a part in the ACO selecting him to go to Porsche.

Speaking of the test, GG reported that while all the teams weren't exactly delighted with the way the rookie driver test was handled by the ACO, one team was particularly displeased. If I had to guess, I would be sure it wasn't Toyota as their rookie driver (Sam Bird) has LMP experience, and I doubt it was Porsche as Mitch Evans was in line to drive for Jota earlier in the year, implying he was rated highly in at least some circles.

Which leaves Audi and Richie Stanaway...

[TheMightyM]

So what happens if over 35 cars want to race full-season in the WEC next year?

[chernaudi]

I wouldn't think that Audi are happy as one, Stanaway doesn't have prototype experience (or in a car of roughly similar performance), two, he drives for AMR, who've often whined for BOP in GT1 and LMP1 until the AMR-One was an out and out failure, and, three, I'd think that they'd be less happy if they got Sam Bird, as he was largely responsible for the #3 Audi getting trashed at LM a couple of years ago (he was in the Ferrari that speared Bonanomi).

Either that, or the ACO helped Porsche get Evans though his connections to Webber and Evans originally had a gig with Jota, which we know is a team that has ties to Audi Sport. Especially as it seems that the teams weren't supposed to have any direct input as to who got chosen for each seat.

[Deleted]

ACO says "We are sorry to inform you but our self imposed maximum 35 cap has been reached and yours was not one of the chosen entries. Our priority upon granting process is on manufacturer, OEM, partnership as well as loyal individuals customers. You were very close on reaching our criteria but unfortunately not for this season"

Team X responds "This is most unfortunate. But isn't it true that in previous years the said gap has not materialized anyway?"

ACO says "It is not our policy to negotiate with ifs and buts, what is announced in the original list announced next week in Paris stays there"

Team X responds "So we cannot get in even if we entered every single round separately"

ACO says "That's right"

Team X responds "Can we still get into Le Mans though"

ACO says "No but we may still be able to place you at the bottom of reserves if you do full season in our regional series. Buy you must hurry up as the process has technically already finished"

Team X responds "No that sounds like a crap gambling plan"

ACO responds "Well we are very busy right now you know and have lots of customers. Please try to gain auto entry for following year"

Team X responds "But I thought you could just buy yourself into Sarthe nowadays? That it's easier to do than WIN regional champs plus commit for the next season just to receive one LM entry"

ACO says "Our WEC entries commit for the joy of world championship competition, not just for Le Mans"

Team X responds "Right. What then if we put famous French footballer in our car, could we get an entry"

ACO says "Well we would consider it otherwise but you're lying as mr Barthez is already in another car"

Team X responds "Maybe for LM but not in WEC seasonal, he could still do the other races. Or perhaps if he declines we find someone else, we promise."

ACO says "Ehhhh no this does not suffice"

Team X responds "Expand the WEC grid to 36 cars then"

ACO says "There is no room"

Team X responds "Yes there is, plenty on the F1 tracks you're currently wasting on luxury. Besides just last season you expanded the limit to 35 from 33 or whatever it was"

ACO says "The answer is still no"

Team X responds "Why was our request not good enough for the chosen 35 then"

ACO says "Look your attitude is starting to annoy us"

Team X responds "We can reward you well for making an exception and rechoosing us instead of someone else."

ACO says "No we cannot be bribed"

Team X responds "We can pay you double the entry fee"

ACO says "Hold on we said..."

Team X responds "Triple"

ACO says "To be frank, we have been offered sums like that before too but..."

Team X responds "Quadruple"

ACO says "We are not that cheap"

Team X responds "Five times the fee and bottle of our finest champagne, this is our final offer"

ACO says "Alright maybe we can do business after all. Get the arrangements done by Sunday, discreetly"

*shaking of hands and X exits the room*

ACO rep to another "Okay hey Vincent go and scratch off that Asian team that only offered us triple and we will get these fine gentlemen there instead"

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I wouldn't think that Audi are happy as one, Stanaway doesn't have prototype experience (or in a car of roughly similar performance), two, he drives for AMR, who've often whined for BOP in GT1 and LMP1 until the AMR-One was an out and out failure, and, three, I'd think that they'd be less happy if they got Sam Bird, as he was largely responsible for the #3 Audi getting trashed at LM a couple of years ago (he was in the Ferrari that speared Bonanomi).

Either that, or the ACO helped Porsche get Evans though his connections to Webber and Evans originally had a gig with Jota, which we know is a team that has ties to Audi Sport. Especially as it seems that the teams weren't supposed to have any direct input as to who got chosen for each seat.

I'd be surprised if Audi (as a team) still held Bird's shunt against him. It was pretty bad but Audi drivers have made mistakes that ended other cars' races. It happens to everyone over a long enough timeline. But I can see there being a bit of needle over their possible scouting of Evans only to see him test for Porsche.

[chernaudi]

A year in a half is a long time to hold a grudge over an one-time incident. But if I'm Audi, though it verges on making them look like conspiracy theorists, it still, on the outside at least where we're at, that there's something a bit fishy with how Evans ended up at Porsche, if we take that Webber is his racing mentor and manager, and that Mark is a Porsche factory driver and obviously collecting a fairly sizable paycheck from Porsche Motorsport.

It seem that if Audi is a bit ticked, it's a lesser instance of what got them angry about the EOT from last season and a lack of transparency from the ACO/FIA in how they do things. It's not NASCAR or F1 levels of cloak and dagger from the sanctioning body, but for the ACO and FIA to say that they want to be transparent about how they do things, they sure like to keep somethings in the shadows, stuff that it's questionable if it's necessary for them to do so.

[Akrapovic]

Is there any way to view the races tape delayed, online? I pay for the live streaming on the FIA WEC website, but won't be able to get up for the 6 hours of Shanghai. Would I be able to view this later?

If it is not available as a pay stream, is there anybody else who uploads it to YouTube, or Daily Motion or anything?

[TzeiTzei]

http://www.gpreplay.com/videos.htm

All sorts of races there. Of course the FIAWEC youtube channel uploads the highlights videos but not necessarily very soon after the race.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

So what happens if over 35 cars want to race full-season in the WEC next year?

The ACO will apply their fully transparent entry decision model guarantying every applicant an equal change of getting rewarding the much desired entry!
=

What Chiana forgot to mention is that the team that 'earned' the entry is skipping the early races of the season before LM - citing "a longer than expected recovery process from an earlier sustained injury by our [entry funding] football star" as the reason - only to be doing the 24 Hours before finally pulling the plug as said football star/driver is put in custody and facing legal charges for piloting on-the-run-and-former-FIFA-president-Sepp Blatter's car on his getaway to Qatar!

[Mike E]

So Felipe Massa clocked 365kph on the front straight in the Mexican GP, thanks to turbocharging and ERS at 2200m above sea level.

In other words, the Fords and turbo Ferraris are going to run away from the rest of the GTs next year, and ESM are going to finish 1st and 2nd in LMP2.

Unless we have some awful BoP specifically for this race. I really hope that is not the case.

The closing speeds of the LMP1s on the N/A GTs will be even crazier than usual as well. Should be lively!

[PorscheFanNo1]

Good catch. Could this have something to do with Toyota being critical against the Mexico round, maybe they know they might not have the turbo engine ready for next year, and if they keep using the NA V8 they will be even further behind the rest of LMP1 at this altitude?