[WEC] 2015 WEC Discussion

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Alex Langheck

Ah, a ‘special event’ – well having another 6 Hour race doesn’t make it special. Are they hamstrung by the ‘Endurance’ in the series Title?? I’ve said it before, but will say it again, it should be the WSC. Then you can get away with 500km, 2h 45min, etc races. I know people have commented that having 6 hour races plus Le Mans is fine – but I’d disagree. Standardisation may work in F1, but for other motorsports it doesn’t.

Shortening the race distances would instantly kill the appeal for all privateer drivers!

They're already complaining that they have to take off a lot of time from work to travel these long distances, if they now cut their seat-time in half it loses all the appeal. These people want track time first and foremost and honestly, that's what most fans want as well.

There's enough sprint racing series out there, no need for yet another one.

[Deleted]

Oh yeah like it killed all the interest for 100% pro-am ELMS when it ditched the standardized 6 hours for standardized 3/4 hours

Shortening non-endurance-races (as in 8-12h) distances to 4h or 3h or 2h45min or 500km whatever isn't gonna drive them away. Most of them are there because of the automatic Le Mans invites anyway (as I always say, the only way you could really see what the TRUE interest towards the championship is if LM was axed out of it). Yes yes we know the cliche of them being the backbone of endurance racing but there is already way too much focus on amateur/gentleman/pro-am aspect in this series. It is supposed to be the top of the top, not Radical Masters.

Anyway no-one wants to hear me going on hitting out the lameness of the schedule and other things again so I leave it to others. Glad I'm not the only one in universal agreement with the way FIA/ACO is handling this. Which is a shame as LMP product right now is nearing amazing

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Oh yeah like it killed all the interest for 100% pro-am ELMS when it ditched the standardized 6 hours for standardized 3/4 hours

And why did the ELMS go back to the four-hour format? Right, because drivers demanded more track time.

Them being the backbone is not a cliche, it's simply the truth. You can't have a world championship with just factory teams. Even in really good times like the ones we're in now, factories can't field more than 10-14 cars at maximum...not enough for a proper grid.

I really don't understand why people insist on past mistakes being repeated. The shortened races and the approach that solely focused on manufacturers killed Group C back in the day.

Just like now, the 3.5l cars were absolutely amazing but there was no backbone whatsoever to keep the series afloat. This is where the WEC differs, the people in charge understand that you can't build a world championship solely based on the needs of manufacturers.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Acid09

This is where the WEC differs, the people in charge understand that you can't build a world championship solely based on the needs of manufacturers.

Interesting, what makes you say that? The manufacturers were/are the big push behind the championship, without them it wouldn't even exist and when they loose interest again it will collapse quickly and yet another cycle will be completed.

[Deleted]

Shortened races and so called "not listening to privateers" (they didn't even listen to the factories) didn't kill World Spotscar Championship but the pressure from F1 and the stupid rule changes.

What Coach said.

[seanyb505]

If only to echo some of the posts here - variation I think would add to the "event" status of non French races in the calendar. 1000k, 6 Hour, 9 Hour, 500k, etc. I think it would do wonders to give races personality, unlike the most of the tracks themselves manage to give.


Right now it feels like there are two basic strategies: one for 6 hours and one for 24 hours. As Alex mentioned above, standardization is generally the realm of F1 and other types of motorsports. One of the best aspects of sports car and endurance to me is the variation. And there should be variation of the aspects that are varied. Cars, tracks, distances, timed events, etc...

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

If only to echo some of the posts here - variation I think would add to the "event" status of non French races in the calendar. 1000k, 6 Hour, 9 Hour, 500k, etc. I think it would do wonders to give races personality, unlike the most of the tracks themselves manage to give.


Right now it feels like there are two basic strategies: one for 6 hours and one for 24 hours. As Alex mentioned above, standardization is generally the realm of F1 and other types of motorsports. One of the best aspects of sports car and endurance to me is the variation. And there should be variation of the aspects that are varied. Cars, tracks, distances, timed events, etc...

And that way we can also be okay with the occasional race at a parking lot in Texas, Bahrain, China or the UK Midlands - heck, we could even go to Ceasar's Palace again!

[seanyb505]

Are you referring to a parking lot start from Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas?

Edit: We are closer than I thought to my proposition of someone running a series on non-Grade 1 tracks.

Lava for runoff: the Turf coming up and getting stuck in cars was kinda damaging.
Back straight through pit lane: Many cars at COTA decided pit lane was a better place to drive rather than the front straight.
Parking Lot start: With most of the tracks resembling parking lots and most of the starts taking place on the track...
High speed sweepers through school zones:...still working on that one.

[Purist]

They could run 278 laps at Monza, and call it the Mille Miglia.

I think Enna-Pergusa would need some updates before we could revive the Targa Florio.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Acid09

I really don't understand why people insist on past mistakes being repeated. The shortened races and the approach that solely focused on manufacturers killed Group C back in the day.

Blaming shortened races for that is just wrong.

[TF110]

The engine formula being the same as f1 is the group c killer.

[Coach Ep]

'Project Brabham' commits to P2.

Chassis + engine + drivers TBA.

[Simmi]

A big BUT behind that commitment.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/p...bham/x/8724696

I've thrown in my £25. Let's see how many more do the same.

[Rodger Davies]

Wonder what the difference in budget between WEC and ELMS is for P2.

[Pontlieue]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

Wonder what the difference in budget between WEC and ELMS is for P2.

In an interview that bella posted in the ELMS thread yesterday, Sinault from Signatech Alpine said 2 million € for ELMS, 3.5 million € for WEC.

http://www.autonewsinfo.com/2014/09/...rd-133916.html

[Rodger Davies]

Thanks for that link.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Pontlieue

In an interview that bella posted in the ELMS thread yesterday, Sinault from Signatech Alpine said 2 million € for ELMS, 3.5 million € for WEC.

http://www.autonewsinfo.com/2014/09/...rd-133916.html

But does that 2 million include Le Mans as 'side project' or just the five regular races...

If you end up doing LM anyway I'd always include that to the figure too, no point leaving it out

[Pontlieue]

Originally Posted by Chiana

But does that 2 million include Le Mans as 'side project' or just the five regular races...

If you end up doing LM anyway I'd always include that to the figure too, no point leaving it out

The 2 million include Le Mans

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Pontlieue

The 2 million include Le Mans

Okay so ELMS season without LM must be rather cheap, in relative terms...

Anyway going back to the Sebring / calendar debacle, I found this old Autosport bit from 2011



Now while obviously compromises were made after that and ALMS filler classes were allowed to complete and so forth, I think it speaks for the volume of ACO wanting to control the happenings as they please, and IMSA on the other hand not willing to give up on every (justified or not) demand. Leading up to the end result.

What is for sure, is that Blahberton's "ACO want to be there as badly as we want them to be there" didn't quite come true... and that it indeed was 'trial'

[seanyb505]

Atherton must have really known Petit would not be on the WEC calendar for him to say "50-50." As always, if we only knew what he knew.

The more I think about it, I think we would be better off if ALMS had just folded. The void of a 12 hour race may have been filled with enough pressure to WEC from Audi and Porsche alone. Sure maybe there wouldn't be anything in 14, but people would still show up per Sebring's party precedence rules, and WEC would plan for 2015 WEC opener in Florida.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

Atherton must have really known Petit would not be on the WEC calendar for him to say "50-50." As always, if we only knew what he knew.

The more I think about it, I think we would be better off if ALMS had just folded. The void of a 12 hour race may have been filled with enough pressure to WEC from Audi and Porsche alone. Sure maybe there wouldn't be anything in 14, but people would still show up per Sebring's party precedence rules, and WEC would plan for 2015 WEC opener in Florida.

Since Sebring was an ALMS/Panoz asset, fate could have been worse.

[ATLFalconsFAN]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

Atherton must have really known Petit would not be on the WEC calendar for him to say "50-50." As always, if we only knew what he knew.

The more I think about it, I think we would be better off if ALMS had just folded. The void of a 12 hour race may have been filled with enough pressure to WEC from Audi and Porsche alone. Sure maybe there wouldn't be anything in 14, but people would still show up per Sebring's party precedence rules, and WEC would plan for 2015 WEC opener in Florida.

I used to see old Scotty A on the grid before every race just a couple years ago. This year I have not seen him once, either on the grid or in the paddock. I think it's the first smart thing he has done, hidden from people like us. I wonder what sorts of things I would have to say to him if I saw him? Something along the lines of thanks for f***ing this all up.

[Deleted]

As long as he can continue to practice his "lots of words without content" politician skills for attempting to get elected for congress 10 years from now, and the CEO salary (which has probably improved thanks to Daytona overlords) keeps going nice and steady I'm sure Scott is perfectly happy with everything. Can't fault him for that.

[Maelochs]

Chiana nails it.

Recall, the first thing the new management did was figure out parking spaces? The real issues with the merger were who would get paid how much and who would get which offices, perks, parking spaces, and titles. Then they spent a bunch on branding, did a big ceremony to announce the name, then trashed it all and renamed ... and then got around to noticing that they were claiming to be a Racing series, like, with cars and stuff.

TUSC is a jobs program for former Rolex and ALMS washouts.

Knowing that won't keep me from going to Petit, and enjoying it as much as possible, but ...

but ...

...

[Deleted]

Yeah I think what mr Plinkett says here applies well to the current organization... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVeXdhADrmI&t=1m18s