'09 ALMS Petit Le Mans - Sep 26th

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I suggested that on the previous page. They do that in Grand-Am and NASCAR.

That's the right way! You can't stop a so important race in this stupid way!
There's a championship out there, and some titles to win!
It should be more intelligent to resume the race the day after, to avoid a real unfair behavior!
Now has won who have had the luck to be in the right place, in the right moment! Risi was never be able to achieve the first place in the race, and they've won just because they were in the first place once, before of the red flag.
Peugeot was behind Audi, but Audi has been penalized by the safety cars... and with the red flag has lost a race it could have won!
The same for Corvette, Porsche and BMW!

[Cuttlefish]

Originally Posted by The359

Sebring '93, Sebring '95, Sebring '97, Daytona '89, Daytona '05, 24h Nurburgring '07, 24h Nurburgring '92, Nurburgring 1000 '86, Silverstone 1000 '75, Zeltweg 1000 '75.

What do they have in common? All races that were red flagged for rain (or fog) without the clock being stopped or races where the race was stopped completely and not restarted due to rain.

Posted a couple pages back.

[The359]

And to the suggestion that "we keep going because some other cars might be able to drive, like GTs, so tough luck if your prototype can't handle it":

How many cars spinning or crashing off would you like before you stopped it?

Keep going until the race is nothing but GTs, or at least those that didn't also survive?

Would a race finishing with 10 cars or less, and most likely not all on the same lap, be any less of a "disappointment"?

[MJ_N_09]

So, are trophies given?

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by MJ_N_09

So, are trophies given?

I guess so. The champagne probably won't be sprayed as vigorously though!

[MJ_N_09]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I guess so. The champagne probably won't be sprayed as vigorously though!

I'd break the bottles before they get a chance

[isynge]

Originally Posted by MJ_N_09

I'd break the bottles before they get a chance

It'll only be really sour if we wake up to triumphal advertising regarding the result. One hopes cooler heads regarding this prevail.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by isynge

It'll only be really sour if we wake up to triumphal advertising regarding the result. One hopes cooler heads regarding this prevail.

Peugeot. Cool heads. Peugeot. Coold heads. Does not compute.

[aeroehl]

Someone was saying that the diesels have to go through a 30 min warm up before they can run again. These are of coarse illegal under red flag rules. Does anyone know anything about this?

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by aeroehl

Someone was saying that the diesels have to go through a 30 min warm up before they can run again. These are of coarse illegal under red flag rules. Does anyone know anything about this?

I've heard that all prototypes need the 20-30 min warm up.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Dario911

Risi was never be able to achieve the first place in the race, and they've won just because they were in the first place once, before of the red flag.

Do you ever stop whining, like ever, Risi won deal with it, quit being a sour losser.

Risi had the no1 pos with a lap on the field before the race was canceled, and would have probably won since. If you are saying ohhh the safety cars don't count, well that's just plain !#$!$!$,

You have no way of predicting how the race would have ended for another 5 or so houres, and if even a single porsche would have crossed the line, Ferrari fans should be the ones saying its unfar, if the race was restarted, the 45 engine would have probalby blown....... and stuff like that

This is Motorsport, things like this will always happen, you cant except drivers to risk their lives in weather like that, or th orginisers to come up with the cash, and coverage for another day of racing.

[The359]

Race winners can be determined by accidents or by yellow flags or by weather.

Wins are still wins, even if you got a lucky break.

[Richard C]

We just got back to our hotel room. The weekend was great other than the rain and eventual calling of the race. The ground was soaked and my brother and I were there at turn 10 when it started to rain, many of the cars spun and then the red flag. It went from just fine to crazy in just a few minutes. The problem was that the rain was not being soaked up by the ground at all due to the recent records rains and just became rivers across the track. I wasn’t down by turn 1 but they said it was worse there.

We hung out down at the paddock for quite awhile and it was clear that everyone wasn’t sure what was going to happen. Eventually the rain started to slack and they started to work on clearing the track. We were right there when McNish jumped in one of the safety cars (I believe with some other drivers) to ride around and examine the track. I am assuming that parts were just fine, but I believe that there were places that still had water running across the track. Couple that with darkness, the lack of time and with no idea exactly when the existing rivers on the track would slow down I am not surprised they called the race. Would I have liked them to race the last hour or so? Sure, but I am going to have to trust those in charge. My impression was that the majority of those in the pits were happy that it had been called.

We hung around for the podium celebrations and yes they did spray Champaign.

[Number7]

What a disappointment! And having Peugeot declared as winner afte a race like that!Can't believe it!

[chernaudi]

Only thing that IMSA could've done was either:

1-break their own rules and stop the clock and reset it to when the race was red flagged, or

2-see how bad things were with drainage(which they knew of) and postpone the race for a couple of weeks.

They though that they could get the race in, but the drainage couldn't handle the water runoff from 1-3 inches of rain that fell in a period of a couple of hours on ground that had about 10-15 inches of rain saturated in it.

The only other thing is if IMSA makes a rule where if they can't get the race to half way(which they didn't), they have to restart as things were the next day, like NASCAR, but I don't see that happening.

[andy_b]

just got back to the hotels.

The water wasnt draining very quickly, partly as the water table was already very heavy. As someone mentioned McNish (and I believe Sarrazin) went around in the Cayenne. Is really was extremely bad. It did seem to let off for a short time, but it wasn't long. Ironic, its hardly raining now

I dont think Speed had any influence in the decision. I was in the Radio Le Mans booth (Speed were next door) and neither of us knew what was happening until the top of the timing screens changed from Red to Black. It was quite an experience seeing Hindy adlib and fill for 3 1/2 hrs.

I also heard in the press room that Peugeot said they needed more time than the petrols to get ready.

A Strange day and event. I'm just glad I spent two solid days around the track on Thursday and Friday

[the real Stig]

[QUOTE=fiend540;2548902]...and the Acuras proved to be a dud.QUOTE]

Acuras were neutralized by a dumb ass driving decision by Field. They were really attacking in the wet. could have finished right up there, who knows where.

Shame that Honda did not develop it enough. Only Gas car to ever really challenge the Diesels. (premature) RIP.

[Purist]

Sorry to burst the bubbles of those talking about waiting for the next time around (whether that be Laguna, Sebring, Le Mans, or PLM '10). However, unless we get some new manufacturers in SOON, I sincerely doubt PLM will have this kind of potential again in GTs AND prototypes for at least another five years; we had the most works cars at LM this year that we've had since 1999 or 2000 (3 Audis, 3 Astons, 3(4) Peugeots)! Since Peugeot won Le Mans this year, they may very well be done for some time to come. Toyota is only rumours at this point, and we wouldn't see them for at least 18 months, if they do come to LM, and may not see them at all over here. Are Audi actually doing anything next year? If the lions decide they're done, the four rings may not see much point. I highly doubt the Lola-Astons will be a real match for updated R15s. It's also NOT looking very promising on the Acura front either.

What can I say, I have a passion for driving, but it's exceedingly unlikely that I will be permitted to pursue it. I can say that for the other things I have such a passion for, I get extremely focused, so I have no doubt that I would be one of those clouded by the red mists to some noticeable extent. Behind the wheel, I don't think I would be a particular hazard to others purely based on that focus, but neither would I have particular concern for my personal welfare. My focus and care would be entirely centered on the act of driving well and attempting to win.

[Purist]

Dale Sr. is dead and Little Al faded into obscurity some time ago. I'm definitely a fan of Brabham, Magnussen, Donohue, and Gurney in the two series over here, but I cannot say that my attachment/hero worship is at the same sort of heights that it was with Earnhardt and Unser. Thus, I can't say that the threat of losing drivers with perhaps somewhat greater frequency phases me the way it does some. Frankly, I think the current level of complacency in and around the sport proves that, if anything, things have become too safe in some ways.

And don't take this as not caring or being stupid or naive. I don't want drivers dying regularly or spectators killed by the dozens. Then again, PEOPLE DIE crossing the street EVERYDAY. TENS of THOUSANDS of people DIE on this nation's PUBLIC roads EVERY YEAR. I think I'll save a somewhat greater measure of my concern and sympathy for those souls than I will for those lost, or who might be lost, in racing.

Honestly, I can think of no better way to go than doing something you love, can you? Also, racing is a human sport, and thus some element of danger is actually beneficial. It reminds us that these are real, flesh-and-blood, mere mortal men and woman, which I think is a good thing. It allows us to still hoist them up, while at the same time permitting us to connect with them because they are like us, and are not actually superhuman beings beyond our reach nor beyond the grasp of the frailties that we all face in real life. Their abilities give us something to look up to, but since we perceive them as being like us, we can feel more able to strive for greater things in our own lives. Such figures can be legitimately looked up to and be truly inspiring. One thing we certainly could do with more of right now is hope, and people who can instill it.

[Purist]

Now then, as I keep saying in a more round about way, I don't find today's conditions unprecedented for what has been raced in in the past, and that's my key metric. Since it has been done, why the hell can't it be done now?! We should be MORE capable now to do those things, and thus certainly be able to do them with a much greater margin of safety. We should be MORE capable now, period!

My comment earlier was what my personal reaction would be to my own screw-up. Why would I need to tell it to Allan's face? Do you think McNish pats himself on the back after a foul-up like the spin today? Of course he doesn't! As far as I'm concerned, in the cockpit, you do the task at hand. The weather, the traffic, are all excuses in the end. You are responsible for everything and everything is your choice. Poor performances can only be tolerated for so long. There comes a point when you're either delivering results or you're just making excuses. I'm not directing this at any of you personally, or even at the general "you" really. That standard, at some subconscious level, is the yoke I put around my own neck.

[The359]

What the...?

[Purist]

Sorry, I guess I just had the red mist/tunnel vision at the keyboard. Sometimes, when I get going inside my head, I just have to unload. Like I said, I get REALLY focused sometimes. Goodnight all!

[chernaudi]

Fact of the matter is that no one-even Audi, Peugeot or IMSA-can beat Mother Nature or the weather, though they tried-Peugeot was just a little luckier today-and maybe counting their blessings, because the Audis drove away in the rain, and they-namely the #2 R15-was as fast, if not at times faster in the dry as well(McNish ran the fastest race lap, so that and the Green Challenge are good pity prizes).

But Audi has closed the gap down from what it was at Le Mans-it could be down to the R15's post LM testing the the relative lack of testing by Peugeot, Peugeot still having some work to do for their cars in the rain, Road Atlanta suiting the Audis more in race trim, or any combination of the above-but Audi will be on it for next year, especially if Peugeot no longer runs 908s as a full factory effort(depening on who you ask, Peugeot will run a factory program similar to this year of running 3-4 races, or run a semi-works team with Pescarolo).

[MJ_N_09]

Originally Posted by The359

What the...?

Seconded. He still wasn't over this? He wasn't even there!

[MJ_N_09]

Originally Posted by arakis

Do you ever stop whining, like ever, Risi won deal with it, quit being a sour losser.

Risi had the no1 pos with a lap on the field before the race was canceled, and would have probably won since. If you are saying ohhh the safety cars don't count, well that's just plain !#$!$!$,

You have no way of predicting how the race would have ended for another 5 or so houres, and if even a single porsche would have crossed the line, Ferrari fans should be the ones saying its unfar, if the race was restarted, the 45 engine would have probalby blown....... and stuff like that

This is Motorsport, things like this will always happen, you cant except drivers to risk their lives in weather like that, or th orginisers to come up with the cash, and coverage for another day of racing.

As long as there is no ignore feature, I have to put up with this. Honestly come on!! Total lies.