LMS Round 2: Monza, April 25-27, 2008

[olly83]

The stream wasn't working properly for me so that's the first time i've seen the accident, but my god both drivers were so lucky that didn't end up much worse. I understand Ortelli has a broken ankle/foot, Hope he gets well soon and is back in action before long

[JAG]

Originally Posted by canam

The crash in the oreca courage must reopen discussion over the safety issues. The LMP1 regs were revamped many years ago to prevent what we saw at Monza from happening. I can see further moves to further alter some of the aero features. thank goodness, Ortelli is OK. that was one of the worst crashes that I have seen .

It was a totally different accident.

The flips were caused by air getting under the front of a car, Ortelli's accident was the car being launched by a hump in the grass, side-on. The aero actally worked as the car was moving back into a flat, upright position, but dug into the ground which caused the cartwheel.

I wouldn't be suprised to see bigger rear wing endplates etc, while these kind of accidents make closed cars look an even better option safety wise.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by deggis

Ortelli's crash: http://youtube.com/watch?v=52wUHuZ7fqI-

WOW

[Duff_44]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

Dear.
McNish and Ortelli won together at Le Mans 10 years ago.
Ortelli took off already once with a Porsche GT1 in ALMS.

The GT1 crash at PLM in 1998 was with Yannick Dalmas driving, not Ortelli.

[Marcel ten Caat]

GT2 update: the race winning IMSA Porsche has been excluded.

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by Duff_44

The GT1 crash at PLM in 1998 was with Yannick Dalmas driving, not Ortelli.

Yes, Dalmas was driving.

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by Stranger

GT2 update: the race winning IMSA Porsche has been excluded.

under what circumstances?

[AX lover]

Anybody knows what's the deal with the #85 Spyker?

planetlemans.com:

The 85 Spyker comes in the pits and does not qualify…or does it? what kind of move is that? let’s await the decision of the stewards…

[AX lover]

@dj choc ice:

Several hours after the race had ended the technical scrutineers found the car in breach of article 5.4.3f of the 2008 spefications of the ACO. This meant that (a part of) the airbox did not comply to the regulations.

[Tom908V12]

Originally Posted by The Badger

That might screw up his Le Mans !!! Who is the reserve Pug driver ?

Anthony Beltoise this season...

[sssssssss]

Originally Posted by JAG

This is not correct.

There are no restrictions on qualifying pace.

The 3.30 (consistent race pace) time is used as many cars are in different specifications, petrol, diesel, turbo, atmo, closed, open etc.

The diesels and Lola Aston Martin will likely go under 3.30 during the race, consistently, so diesels and GT1 engined cars may see a restrictor cut, and possibly more weight.

Regular petrol cars will seriously struggle to go under 3.30 during the race, so we're unlikely major changes to these cars.

The aim is to balance different technologies and have a race pace 'around' 3.30 and qualifying upto 3-4 seconds quicker. This was stated by the ACO themselves.

The same happened in GT1, the DBR9 and C6.R broke 3.55, by some margin, so were given 25kg ballast, in addition to an across the board 5% restrictor cut. The other GT1 cars were not given the extra 25kg.

Can't really see the contradiction... It's not restrictions on qualifying PACE, it's aero rules that they might change in order to generally slow the cars down.
Quote:
The ACO is considering a reduction in performances in LM P1 and
LM P2 for safety reasons, given the fact that the 3m 30s barrier was
breached in the 2007 race.
Discussions with the entrants will begin in 2008 to introduce such
measures in 2009 or 2010.
The modifications to be made will apply mainly to the bodywork, the
wings and the air restrictors, so that the LM P1 cars’ times will not
dip under 3m 30s over a lap of the Le Mans circuit.

P.S. Sorry for the late post.

[Jimbob-18]

Originally Posted by canam

The crash in the oreca courage must reopen discussion over the safety issues. The LMP1 regs were revamped many years ago to prevent what we saw at Monza from happening. I can see further moves to further alter some of the aero features. thank goodness, Ortelli is OK. that was one of the worst crashes that I have seen .

I disagree, Monza needs to have a good look at itself. 2 Drivers injured in 2 different days aand Capello's quite big accident at the start as well doesn't boast well for the circuit. If it's all totally the cars, how come stuff like this hasn't happened at Barcelona, Spa, Nurb, Silverstone, ect in the past or in the case of Barcelona, this year already? Yes, the cars can be improved, any injury to a driver means the saftey can be improved, but the tracks need to be safe as well if the crash was at 250 km/h

[rdjones]

Good to see Eurosport's schedule's are running to time......

[dj choc ice]

i dont think we need tilke to butcher another great race track, monza is a perfectly safe venue, i feel what weve seen here has been more down to bad luck this weekend and not a safety issue, the oreca as JAG said earlier on behaved exactly as it should of in this type of situation, the car was coming back down into a flat, wheels down position, its when the car dug into the ground that the end over end rollover was induced, look at all the monza races weve seen in the past with sportscars were speeds were much higher ala peugeot 905, toyota TS010, porsche 962, mercedes C9, jaguar XJR9, accidents happen, its a fact, no matter how safe the cars and the venue they will always happen.

we should be praising the ACO, rulemakers and oreca, in the respect that this crash could have been a lot worse in that if the cars were not as well built this crash could have been much worse ala ortelli could have been knocked out and much more seriously hurt, instead people feel the need to start slagging the rulemakers and circuit off and pointing the ugly finger of blame.

we should be glad that ortelli is fine and the circuit and cars are so safe, go back 20 years in a crash of the nature of ortelli's in say a jag XJR9 or a 962 the driver would have been much more seriously injured.

[Jonerz]

1. Heck of a race, I really enjoyed listening to the Radio Le Mans coverage.
2. Just watched the LMS' sum-up of the event and that was a horrific crash for the Oreca-Courage. Is it just a broken ankle for Ortelli?
3. As they said on the broadcast, unfortunate the race had to end the way it did, could have been far more exciting. Audi must be extremely miffed over the contact. Will they have the opportunity to ask for a penalty to the Peugeot? I imagine they will not be able to as there was no penalty given (for good reason IMO - racing incident).
4. If anyone finds footage of the Dindo crash aside from the onboard seen on the LMS website, or footage of Jamie's crash (can anyone update his condition?) please direct me to it.

Chris

[sssssssss]

I guess the only reason for professional drivers to really gain the sums of money they gain is because of the risk that their job implies while providing the great show. The rest of it is sheer fun. To me, the safety thing today is just redundant and an artificial notion behind which certain interests can be hidden.

[sssssssss]

Originally Posted by Jimbob-18

I disagree, Monza needs to have a good look at itself. 2 Drivers injured in 2 different days aand Capello's quite big accident at the start as well doesn't boast well for the circuit. If it's all totally the cars, how come stuff like this hasn't happened at Barcelona, Spa, Nurb, Silverstone, ect in the past or in the case of Barcelona, this year already? Yes, the cars can be improved, any injury to a driver means the saftey can be improved, but the tracks need to be safe as well if the crash was at 250 km/h

The previous post was about this

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by AX lover

@dj choc ice:

oh dear, so who inherits the win GT2 now then?

is it still a porsche victory, although i prefer the ferrari's to the porsche's it would be nice to see the porsche's winning a little more, the ferrari's do seem to be dominating which is not an entirely attractive prospect.

[AFC-911]

That was a heck of a race! I'm even more thankful that we got RLM to cover the event...What a great introduction to LMS racing!

[The359]

Farnbacher's Porsche gets GT2 if IMSA is disqualified.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Jimbob-18

I disagree, Monza needs to have a good look at itself. 2 Drivers injured in 2 different days aand Capello's quite big accident at the start as well doesn't boast well for the circuit. If it's all totally the cars, how come stuff like this hasn't happened at Barcelona, Spa, Nurb, Silverstone, ect in the past or in the case of Barcelona, this year already? Yes, the cars can be improved, any injury to a driver means the saftey can be improved, but the tracks need to be safe as well if the crash was at 250 km/h

I've seen clips of the accidents and none of them had anything to do with the track. Monza is as wide as a football field, very little elevation change, and plenty of run-off. What else can you do?

[tux]

The Imsa Porsche was disqualified due to an airbox infringement. So the Farnbacher Porsche inherits the victory.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

I've seen clips of the accidents and none of them had anything to do with the track. Monza is as wide as a football field, very little elevation change, and plenty of run-off. What else can you do?

Remove all sandtraps and replace them with small airfield sized paved run-offs. Call now 555-TILKE-5289.

-

[minimangler]

Originally Posted by deggis

Remove all sandtraps and replace them with small airfield sized paved run-offs. Call now 555-TILKE-5289.

-

swiftly followed by 555-ruin a damn good sport-666

[deggis]

Ralf Jüttner, technical director of Audi Sport: "We are obviously not happy about the contact between Pedro and Mike. We do not find it very beautiful but we also know that this is a race that it can happen and we see no grounds are to bear complaint with the race director. We do not make a big deal."

translation from endurance-info.com