My Tracks

[Lee Janotta]

Thanks!

The scale's maybe a bit distorted here, though... That's a _big_ track... That railyard between the track and the houses is about 2 miles long!

But, here ya go, I've turn that swamp complex into a flat-out double kink.

I'm trying to change my philosophy on track design a bit, trying to get the hell away from the formulaic concave Tilke approach, and instead going to conflex tracks that push the driver's talent and the car's high-speed cornering ability and engine to the limits.

I mean, no one ever had to deliberatly add passing zones to Spa (the bus stop chicane's a safety precaution).

Mac: The reason I often use ovals for a portion of the track is purely economic. It allows for a lot of general admission seating, concessions, and provides bathrooms as well as pit and garage facilities for both oval and road courses.

[Lee Janotta]

Oops...

[Lee Janotta]

Gah!!!!!!!!

[Lee Janotta]

Okay, this is probably the first in a barrage of modifications to existing tracks to bring them back into service.

First off is L'Autodrome de Linas-Montlhéry, just to the south of Paris. This historic track was the home of several pre-war French GPs, was one of the very first permanent racing venues in the world, and is as fast as they get. Safety, though, was always abismal.

In my modifications (which, from satellite photography on Mapquest, seem totally reasonable), I've added twisty bits and runoff, and allowed the westernmost part of the circuit, the Les Combes complex, to decay into public roads, which is what it's being used as, while the rest of the old GP circuit (originally about 7 miles!) is basically just sitting there, still in pretty good shape, though must is even without any barriers or Armco!

The entire track will need to be widened, probably right up to the barriers, but that's just as well.

With these mods, I see no _legitimate_ reason the French GP couldn't come to the Paris suburbs in the near future!

[mac]

Would be a cracker of a track. Still don't think it is safe enough, though.

[the_royksopp]

Looks really good...

[Speedworx]

Some great tracks have been posted.

Maybe we should start a petition to get this thread moved back to 'Gravel Trap'

[the_royksopp]

Good idea

Stupid me just deleted my Albert Park!!!!!!

May Guigetto Tenzone kiss the pot goodbye and start waving to the armchair as it flies away on a loudspeaker with a sink.

[alfasud]

Well this isn't one of my tracks, but it's the proposed extension for the Taupo Circuit in Central North Island, New Zealand.

First, here's the original 1.4km circuit.....
http://www.motorsport.org.nz/images/Taupo.jpg

The new extension, for a 3.4km international circuit....
http://www.taupocarclub.org.nz/files...plan_large.jpg

[alfasud]

Here's a smaller image of the proposed Taupo International circuit. The oval looking area to the upper left isn't for cars, it's part of an existing horse track!

The circuit runs counter-clockwise.

[Lee Janotta]

Turn 1 still needs more runoff, and they _still_ haven't managed to put in a good overtaking spot.

Aside from that, a fairly credible job. A few really fast corners would be nice, though.

[Lee Janotta]

Well, It's probably an impossible task, but I figured I'd try anyway.

Here it is... The north loop of the Nurburgring. I'm hoping it might be brought up to F3, sportscar, or Champcar standards.

The changes are thus: Replace the 28 miles of Armco with the Indianapolis "soft walls".

Push the barriers right up to the trees in the corners and provide high-grip tarmac runoff.

Repave the track with an extra foot and a half on each side.

Put the tire barriers as specified.

Leave the jumps as they exist now. The open-wheels will be running max downforce on this track anyways, sucking them down to the track. I want to see touring cars still getting airborne there.

Put in deep tire barriers as shown, along with catch fences. Opportunities for _big_ offs here.

Bergwerk is an _evil_ turn that pops up out of nowhere. It'll need a _lot_ of runoff added. But reprofiling of _any_ corner ist verboten!!!

The only rear changes should be make at the banked corners, the Karussel and mini-Karussel (the second half of Schwalbenschwanz in this map). Both will be turn up and re-built with conventional 30-degree banking. The current banking is breaking up due to age, and the design would destroy a modern prototype or Formula car (the Group C cars had to take the high, un-banked line in '83 to avoid bottoming out badly on the crown of the banking).

Finally, that moronic chicane which stands between Tiergarten and the GP-strecke (so tight it's not visible on this map) will be demolished and the track paved straight to join the pit straight of the GP circuit, with a _massive_ runoff with tarmac, gravel, and nets in front of the massive catch fence.

Right now, if you have brake failure going into that chicane, you'll probably die because it's nothing but Armco right up against the track, and you're coming in after having your foot flat to the floor for 40 to 60 seconds! Better you go screaming past, _maybe_ manage to rub the outside wall and shed some speed, then have a massive crash against something soft with the safety crew and the teams all in close proximity to come to your rescue.

[Lee Janotta]

Oh, and I forgot... Lay cables underneath the track when it's being repaved, so that for events, the camera crews will have coaxial or fiberoptic cables and power outlets to plug right into. Might make it possible to finally cover the whole 'ring with cameras if you make it easy to just plug in some unmanned static cameras.

[alfasud]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
Turn 1 still needs more runoff, and they _still_ haven't managed to put in a good overtaking spot.

Aside from that, a fairly credible job. A few really fast corners would be nice, though.

When you talk about turn 1 of Taupo, I think you mean that turn at the far left of the picture? The current start-finish straight is on the main straight at the bottom of the picture, and the track direction is counter-clockwise, so I think you are talking about the last turn (with poor run-off), not the first.

Although the pictures don't show it, that corner (existing track) is decreasing radius..... got to careful not to appex too early or you run out of room at the exit.

It's difficult to improve the runoff there due to the proximity of the public road, unless you bring the corner back to the left, which would shorten the club circuit even more (it's only 1.4km). Looking at the old and the new extension (full size picture), it seems they are trying to slow the cars down before that turn with a chicane..... on second thoughs, maybe they should shorten the circuit!

In an ideal world, you'd move the public road

Will have to reserve judgement about overtaking in some of the medium speed sections - you're right, there's no really _fast_ corners, but overall I don't think they did a bad job in the space available.

By the way, the land isn't flat either and I'm told they intend to keep the elavation changes as part of the character of the new track.

[alfasud]

Wow, that's a masive undertaking with Nurburgring Lee. On the other hand, having seen some in car videos, something does need doing about the surface in places.... I'm wondering how the BMW M3 and DTM cars manage around that place..... about the same as the Group C cars did I guess.

[alfasud]

Originally posted by alfasud
It's difficult to improve the runoff there due to the proximity of the public road, unless you bring the corner back to the left......

Hmmm..... I should of said bring the corner back to the right, to give more run off to the left.

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by alfasud
Wow, that's a masive undertaking with Nurburgring Lee. On the other hand, having seen some in car videos, something does need doing about the surface in places.... I'm wondering how the BMW M3 and DTM cars manage around that place..... about the same as the Group C cars did I guess.

The only time I've seen anything resembling a DTM car on the Nordschleife is during the 24 hours... Yeah, I've got to guess anything N-GT spec or faster has the same problems as the Group C cars in getting around the track.

There's not a whole lot that can be done to the circuit without destroying it's character... Mostly I just tried to widen the track (which is never a bad idea), and give the drivers something soft to hit if one of the dozens of blind corners catches them out (Bergwerk is an _evil_ corner!).

But, some work definitly needs to be done to make the track more viable as a serious venue, because it won't survive forever as a tourist attraction with just a couple endurance races a year. If ETCC, DTM, even FIA Sportscars and GTs, perhaps even F3, F3000 or Champcars could run on it, it's future could be very bright.

Sorry about my mistake with Taupo. I suppose the runoff is sufficient if the cars are running counter-clockwise.

[Matthopps]

If only there was a series that would run on all of the tracks posted on this forum! Wounldn't that just be the BEST series in the World ever! A Mecca for Petrol-Heads and all those who Love Automobiles/Bikes and Automobile/Bike Racing.

Incidentally, has anyone thought about what some of these tracks would be like on a bike as opposed to a car, and the way some of the tracks are explained you could race monster trucks on them! (the airport circuits anyway).

That means in theory you could have a Monster-Truck race on ovals and The Burke-Lakefront Airport (the Cleavland round of the CART Championship)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lee Janotta]

Cleveland.

Sorry to correct you, but you only had to look at my "From" to get the correct spelling.

Bikes? Nope, never really considered them...

Uhm... Monster trucks don't corner for s**t on pavement, I'm afraid. Better off racing semi trucks (lorries).

[Matthopps]

I know I meant to put Cleveland, I was just typing at about 55-60 words-per-minute and also had a headful of stuff to get down: The tracks could be covered in Mud! Then you could have an "FIA WORLD MONSTER-TRUCK CHAMPIONSHIP"!


Cool idea? or not?

[mac]

I'm resigned to the fact that the Nordschleiffe is consigned to the fact that it is now little more than a tourist attraction that people can drive around. The only chance for it to be returned to racing is for it to become a rally leg. It's as good as one. It would make a good first or last leg of the Rally of Germany.

[Lee Janotta]

Well mac, I'm still hoping for a day when the Tilke-rings will be shunned for the miserably articifial and boring constructs they are, and really circuits will be back in vogue.

Even as a tourist trap, it could stand some safety improvements. A lot of bikers get killed or maimed there every year.

In that spirit, I offer my latest creation, Malibu Sports Car Club.

While concieved and marketed as an automotive country club, the circuit is more than capable of hosting ALMS and Champcars on the combined GP circuit (the combined North and South circuits).

The Mountain loop isn't as safe, and will mostly be used for track days, hillclimbs, for endurance races, or just as an access road for the Circuit Club.

The club will feature many events for members, such as showings of classic races or racing movies, parties, a bar, and will provide a luxurious indoor viewing environment for members and VIPs during racing, and being at the top of the mountain, will give them a view of nearly the entire track!

As for the track itself... Well, the layout's dictated by the terrain, as it should be! So there!

[pirenzo]

Well, none of these have names, but here they are

one

[pirenzo]

and two

thats all for now

[pirenzo]

Almost forgot this!

Called Fjalskar (sorry for my impression of a scandanavian name!)