Merger Imminent?

[enemy-ace]

I liked ChampCar but a unified series would be a bigger draw for international audiences than ChampCar ever was. Points or no points.

[indycool]

Yes, it will be a better show for ANY audience, e-a.

I would think that a much better field would override any concerns about points. As I posted earlier, if 22 laps of green over two years didn't kill it, why would points?

Surfers is special because it's so different, so unique. Winners at Nashville want that pretty guitar as a trophy as much as they want the money. At Indy, your likeness on the Borg-Warner Trophy is sacrosanct.

I'd be interested to hear from hikari just how much points would matter down there IF the Bulletin hadn't sniveled at it in advance of any decision being announced whatsoever.

Everyone I know who has made the trip to Surfers say: A) It's great down there, and B) The trip itself is a killer.

[EGG]

The qld/local government has stuck with Champcar through some pretty lean years, only to be rewarded with a demonstration round. Their view will be: "Irrespective of next year (as next year may not happen), what are we getting for $11M and several weeks of disruption?". An overseas non-points round in a different timezone wouldn't get the best coverage in north america.

Most of the aussies are raising this less because they think the event will suffer (the local crowd is generated by the V8s), but because it may fall off the calendar altogether.

[D.R.T.]

Most of the crowd turn up for the party, not any particular form of racing. The event is just as strong with a non champ event in 08.

Actually its stronger as the Indycar race now brings more cars, your Andrettis versus Rahals, patricks etc

[JohnSSC]

I have yet to see "the championship" of whatever series that was headlining a street race used in the promotion of the race.

It has always been about the "event" with street racing and as D.R.T. notes the crowd generally turns up for the party!

[Amar7605]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Not everyone is pleased by the look of it!!!!
Headline in this mornings Gold Coast Bulletin.

SHAM INDY
Gold Coast race won't count.

Apparently the Gold Coast organisers have been told that the Surfers race will be a non championship event because Chicago has a contract with IRL to be the final event of the championship.
We now have a State Government, and the local City council wondering if they will get the TV ratings to justify chucking in A$11million (currently US$10.12million).
Add to this the push by local V8SC Chairman Tony Cochrane to take over the date for the Taxi races and the joint entity better do some pretty smart ego stroking if they want to keep the event.
With Local Government elections on in March if it isn't done pretty smartly a council that says they don't want the event may have been elected, and that will be the end of the line for Surfers racing.
You can't afford to concentrate on internal wheeling and dealing fellas if the castle is falling down round your ears.

Whoever wrote this article is worrying too much. No matter what, people will still come to Surfers in droves. And even if it doesn't count towards points, so what? The drivers and teams are still professionals and I am sure that they will put on a good race.

Heck it might be a better race because there will be nothing to lose

[Teretonga]

If the non points status is because the event is after the Chicago race then they had better sort it out for 2009 or the event will be gone.

My real concern is that because it is a non championship event we will not get all the teams entering and it will be more like a minimal demonstration, ie,. hardly a real race at all.

If we don't get all the teams interested Tony may just let it die because he is not really interested in it...
Which is my concern about the whole merger... is it a joining of two entities or one simply buying the teams from the other series and 'asset striping' it and closing it down they way a corporate takeover would happen. The real assests of CCWS are the Long beach race and the participation of about adozen teams and their associated sponsors... the rest of the thing is of minimal value to Tony G.

[Tony Clifton]

Originally Posted by Amar7605

Whoever wrote this article is worrying too much. No matter what, people will still come to Surfers in droves. And even if it doesn't count towards points, so what? The drivers and teams are still professionals and I am sure that they will put on a good race.

Heck it might be a better race because there will be nothing to lose

As with ANYTHING in business, when difficulties arise, the ability for parties to sit down, communicate what is important to each parties part of the contract and then negotiate and work out a solution is the only way problem get solved.

In my opinion, after seeing the past 20 years of how CART/CCWS/IRL have worked out their problems, I do not have a high confidence level that the Surfers race problem will be solved.

As usual, egos will get involved and instead of looking ahead 2 to 5 years and realizing that the Surfers event is definitely worth keeping on the calender for both Gold Coast AND Indycar the new management of the merged series will somehow shoot itself in the foot and allow this great event to slip away.

There are ways to keep this event an exciting one. Some of those ideas have proposed on this board. Have Surfers as a non Championship "Dash for the Cash" a $1 million dollar winner take all race. This would be no different than what CART proposed and dropped the ball on for a Hawaii event back 7 or 8 years ago.

Once again race fans will be the losers.

I hope I am proved wrong.

[Tony Clifton]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

If the non points status is because the event is after the Chicago race then they had better sort it out for 2009 or the event will be gone.

My real concern is that because it is a non championship event we will not get all the teams entering and it will be more like a minimal demonstration, ie,. hardly a real race at all.

If we don't get all the teams interested Tony may just let it die because he is not really interested in it...
Which is my concern about the whole merger... is it a joining of two entities or one simply buying the teams from the other series and 'asset striping' it and closing it down they way a corporate takeover would happen. The real assets of CCWS are the Long beach race and the participation of about a dozen teams and their associated sponsors... the rest of the thing is of minimal value to Tony G.

The real value to Tony G beyond the hard assets you mentioned is the real fact that there is only one open wheel racing series, run by a (hopefully) benevolent dictator with the best interests and long term health of the sport in mind.
The REAL HARD WORK begins now with rebuilding the utter devastation that open wheel racing has experienced the past 12 years.
Just because CCWS is now gone does not mean that the last racing series standing now has twice as many fans as it did before.
Quite the opposite, if the new leadership does not provide a solid blueprint for the future, open wheel racing may just wither away.

[Tony Clifton]

There is also nothing (as far as I can see) that prevents the October 2008 Surfers Race as being the first points race for the 2009 series.

[cptkablamo]

I will be a good show...most will still turn up - GC pays for the transport, so they only won't come if they have some sort of other financial pain.

The GC Bulletin is a sham of a newspaper. I usually like filicking through it on race weekend to see what rubbish they are 'reporting' (making up?) for that day...

There will be nothing to worry about, GC Indy have stated they are behind the event...and I don't think many of the spectators realise there is a race going on, none the less, who will be scoring the points...

[mountainstar]

I'm hard pressed to see what exactly is being unified here.

I tuned into windtunnel last night to hear kalkoven and george speak and I can't say I was all that impressed.

I thought it funny when robin miller asked george if the new series would resemble CART from the 1990's and he goes "yeah, uh huh". So it was all about power and control from the beginning.

It is a shame what has been destroyed for nothing. There is still a tall mountain to climb and the new management doesn't seem to have any dynamic or visionary ideas to move forward.

[icemachine]

I agree with you there MS, I can't see myself tuning in to watch more than 2 or 3 events this year, likely Indy, Mid Ohio and Edmonton.

[indycool]

1. Two series have become one.
2. #1, impressed or not.
3. Maybe, but two organizations tried to make that not so.
4. We don't know what their "dynamic or visionary ideas" might be.

This is NOT going to be a "microwave." '08 is likely to be a little bumpy, particularly with running Motegi and Long Beach on the same day. It's happening very late, so teams without sponsors are going to have a big task finding them...of course they did, anyway, all winter. The IRL's TEAM program helps.

But it is ONE series. With that, the SPORT wins.

[Tony Clifton]

Did anybody else notice TG rolled his eyes on Robin Millers first question (question was "Which CCWS races will make it to the new schedlue beyond LB, Edmonton and Surfers).

Tony rolled his eyes, paused and answered the questions.

Open wheel racing is not out of the woods by any means. I get the feeling TG is going to cause friction.

[stradlin21]

i think King Tony is the right man to move things forward

it was wasn't for the arrogance of CART then we wouldn't be here but that fact is that the right man 12 years ago has only got what he should have got today

i saw TG and KK on windtunnel last night via TVU player as I was awake waiting for NASCAR to start and I was impressed by Tony's attitude and answers

he wasn't flustered, he wasn't all guns blazing but he let know what he plans

he kept it cool and didn't fall for Miller's baiting, Miller didnt get what he wanted out of that interview which was to move Tony look stupid, Tony was way too controlled for him

KK just nodded his head and agreed, thinking "Yes boss"

The Champ Car guys don't like TG but it's tough, live with it

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by indycool

1. Two series have become one.
2. #1, impressed or not.
3. Maybe, but two organizations tried to make that not so.
4. We don't know what their "dynamic or visionary ideas" might be.

This is NOT going to be a "microwave." '08 is likely to be a little bumpy, particularly with running Motegi and Long Beach on the same day. It's happening very late, so teams without sponsors are going to have a big task finding them...of course they did, anyway, all winter. The IRL's TEAM program helps.

But it is ONE series. With that, the SPORT wins.

of course it is! but some people will never be satisfied!

Tony "won" (he didn't really win, NASCAR won) but people can't take the fact that he is now in charge

because CART did a so much better job than him................they went bankrupt!

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Tony Clifton

Did anybody else notice TG rolled his eyes on Robin Millers first question (question was "Which CCWS races will make it to the new schedlue beyond LB, Edmonton and Surfers).

Tony rolled his eyes, paused and answered the questions.

Open wheel racing is not out of the woods by any means. I get the feeling TG is going to cause friction.

Yes I did see that. No doubt he is all conciliatory now, yes we'll look at cleveland and houston, yes we'll look at road america, yes we'll look at turbo chargers, yes we'll look at new technologies, etc. but ultimately he's going to do what he wants.

Why kalkoven was even sitting there last night is beyond me. He doesn't really have anything to offer, he is no longer part of management, etc. His races he owns are disposable.

[indycool]

I do NOT think the animosity between the two series is very strong among the teams. Maybe some don't know it, but there are single suppliers of various products for BOTH series. If a CC team has a paint shop and an IRL team doesn't, or vice versa, they do each other a favor. If CC needs a car transported somewhere and an IRL transporter happens to be around and has room, the IRL transporter driver does it. That happens in most of the shops around Indy. Indeed, the two organizations have shared safety information for some time.

The biggest "warriors" are on the forums, IMO.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by stradlin21

i think King Tony is the right man to move things forward

it was wasn't for the arrogance of CART then we wouldn't be here but that fact is that the right man 12 years ago has only got what he should have got today

i saw TG and KK on windtunnel last night via TVU player as I was awake waiting for NASCAR to start and I was impressed by Tony's attitude and answers

he wasn't flustered, he wasn't all guns blazing but he let know what he plans

he kept it cool and didn't fall for Miller's baiting, Miller didnt get what he wanted out of that interview which was to move Tony look stupid, Tony was way too controlled for him

KK just nodded his head and agreed, thinking "Yes boss"

The Champ Car guys don't like TG but it's tough, live with it

Here I am sitting with the flu and I can hardly hold my head up, but you give me a little chuckle. Watching tony last night was as exciting as watching a toaster toast a piece of bread.

You know the irony in all this is that since 1991 or so, tony has claimed Cart/champcar etc. has been holding him up. Now he has it all and success or failure is totally up to him. There is no one left to blame.

[indycool]

Well, I'm sure he's aware of that, ms.

And in an interview a few days after the thing got decided, TG was very smart not to rule things out. He and Nation right along said '09 was a clean sheet of paper.

As for CC races being "disposable," Portland, Road America and Laguna, as well as the three European races, were track rentals. Houston, Cleveland, Toronto and Edmonton lost money. Not to mention Vegas. Track rentals occur when the promoter doesn't feel it's productive to pay a sanction fee. With one series, I don't think you're going to see track rentals any more. And I don't think IRL will be booking financial losers.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by stradlin21

of course it is! but some people will never be satisfied!

Tony "won" (he didn't really win, NASCAR won) but people can't take the fact that he is now in charge

because CART did a so much better job than him................they went bankrupt!

I don't think he really won anything except the keys to a bombed out landscape with few inhabitants left.

Cart did indeed go bankrupt, but they were just another casualty in the war of attrition.

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Here I am sitting with the flu and I can hardly hold my head up, but you give me a little chuckle. Watching tony last night was as exciting as watching a toaster toast a piece of bread.

You know the irony in all this is that since 1991 or so, tony has claimed Cart/champcar etc. has been holding him up. Now he has it all and success or failure is totally up to him. There is no one left to blame.

Tony is a cool guy,he played it cool, no doubt about that, he's not a mega interesting personality but why does he need to be?

and even you have to admit that Miller was baiting him but he didn't fall for it

that will have wound up the champ car fans because Tony simply did not get worried by Millers comments

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by indycool

Well, I'm sure he's aware of that, ms.

And in an interview a few days after the thing got decided, TG was very smart not to rule things out. He and Nation right along said '09 was a clean sheet of paper.

As for CC races being "disposable," Portland, Road America and Laguna, as well as the three European races, were track rentals. Houston, Cleveland, Toronto and Edmonton lost money. Not to mention Vegas. Track rentals occur when the promoter doesn't feel it's productive to pay a sanction fee. With one series, I don't think you're going to see track rentals any more. And I don't think IRL will be booking financial losers.

Yes so many of the irl races are huge financial successes.

Without Honda's largess Motegi, St. Pete and Mid Ohio would be non entities. Detroit is on the penske stipend and lost a fortune last year. Homestead, Watkins and Milwaukee are all rumored to be on the chopping block due to low attendance. There are rumors circulating in Nashville that race may even disappear this year.

That doesn't leave a lot of meat on the bones left.

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by indycool

Well, I'm sure he's aware of that, ms.

And in an interview a few days after the thing got decided, TG was very smart not to rule things out. He and Nation right along said '09 was a clean sheet of paper.

As for CC races being "disposable," Portland, Road America and Laguna, as well as the three European races, were track rentals. Houston, Cleveland, Toronto and Edmonton lost money. Not to mention Vegas. Track rentals occur when the promoter doesn't feel it's productive to pay a sanction fee. With one series, I don't think you're going to see track rentals any more. And I don't think IRL will be booking financial losers.

if IndyCar goes to Cleveland i'll fly to states myself and slap George with a sweaty sock

that is perhaps the worst track i have ever seen