Women in motorsport (was F.Woman)

[Balgair]

Coming into this thread quite late, but as a female long-term motorsports fan, my first reaction to hearing about the FWoman concept was "that'll never be taken seriously; it'll just make everyone think women aren't good enough to race against men and need their own series to get anywhere". Sure enough, the image it's given off has been enough to probably ensure that very few of the women involved ever do anything beyond FWoman, other than those who already have contacts in the sport (and like many others, I am somewhat suspicious of just how many there are in the final 16 who have some connections to motorsport already)

Having seen the races at Knockhill, I think they have done absolutely nothing for female drivers - the races were boring, and the general image was terrible. After each race when the trophies were being handed out, all you could hear from the podium was what sounded like hundreds of teenage girls screeching and squealing, as though it was a pop concert or something. And when the drivers were interviewed on the radio they came across somewhat unprofessionally, as they were constantly being asked to talk about their other jobs, instead of the racing (in all other interviews, the point is the racing) - us unfortunate listeners even had to be tortured by the opera singer demonstrating her voice; yeah, that's a very professional image you're giving off

Perhaps what said it all was that in Scotland at the moment there is a very good up-and-coming female driver (who in fact won her first Formula Ford race the meeting after FWoman visited), who the radio presenters kept trying to make a big thing out of, in connection to FWoman visiting - when they interviewed her and asked her the standard questions about what it's like to be a female driver against the men, she wasn't interested, and made it very clear that she thinks of herself as just another driver; gender doesn't matter, and she doesn't think she should be trested differently just because she's female.

Whilst I don't race myself, I have the exact same feelings - I am currently the only female driver in an online (video game) racing league, and whilst I'll admit I like the fact that being female got me noticed more when I started out, I don't think of it as making me special in any way; as far as I'm concerned, I'm just another driver, and being female isn't important to skill level (perhaps it's a good thing I believe that, as I'm no advertisement for female sim-racers - slow is the only word to describe me!) Obviously I'm happy to support female racing drivers with talent (such as the FFord racer I mentioned), but I don't feel they should be given special treatment just because they're female.

I have to agree with Tuscan 6's suggestion of choosing 12 men and 12 women for a series, rather than making it all-female - that would be a lot less sexist, and would also give women drivers a chance to prove that they can fight the men on an equal basis, and they don't need to be given their own series to be able to win anything.

Sorry for the length of this, I'll get off my soapbox now

[Tweed]

Yep, agree with all of that!

[Tuscan 6]

So do I, but I daren't say so in case Justin accuses me of being negative again

[Stinky]

I was at Brands Hatch on Sunday, racing my 2CV. I have been racing for over 10 years, and have never known such bad feeling and sexism in the paddock at a race.

Formula Woman is undoubtedly sexist - positive discrimination is every bit as bad as negative discrimination. A lot of people I met on Sunday obviously felt very put out that the FW series was for female drivers only. There have been dozens of driver scholarships in the past, and all have been equally open to people of both genders.

I have never needed any more help than a male driver in my motor racing. I may be female but once I am on that race-track I am just another car and driver. The only thing I can't do, that most of my competitors can, is lift an engine into the car. Once someone stronger than me has lifted the engine in, I am just as capable as the male drivers of doing the rest of the work.

Brian James may usually be an excellent commentator, but I was utterly offended by what he was saying during 1st practice for the FW race. He was really condescending. Sammie, Katie and I were planning to go and see him after practice, en masse, to point out that none of us had needed any positive sexism in order to get us racing. Sure, we could all do with more sponsorship, and more car development, but couldn't most male drivers too? Unfortunately, both Katie and I had big car problems and were too tied up with working on our cars to actually do this. We were really hoping to put on a strong showing to really rub the point home, but my engine went sick, and Katie had handling problems that meant that we both looked daft.

The whole FW thing is making a huge issue of something that was not an issue before.

Having said all that, if someone had offered me a free drive in the series, I would have taken it, after all, motor racing can be very expensive, and drives in high profile series like these don’t come along every day. All the girls I met on Sunday seemed keen and enthusiastic. I did look for Lauren, as she posts here I wanted to say hello, but she was nowhere to be found. The accident that happened in race 1 appeared to be a case of someone losing it coming out of Paddock, and someone else collecting - I have seen this happen many a time in other races, with men driving.

A lot of time in this thread, people have mentioned the sheer cost of going motor racing. Well, some cars are very expensive to run and repair, so I race a 2CV which is fairly cheap to buy and prep, but is very cheap to repair and keep running. If that FW Race 1 accident had happened in a 2CV (and a similar one did a couple of years ago) then both cars would have been repaired and out for the afternoon.

I've got a friend who has just given up a heavy smoking habit - her and her husband used to spend more on cigarettes each year than I do on going motor racing!!

Anyway, rant over.

I do wish all the girls involved all the best and hope that they do carry on racing in "normal" formulae.

:-)

Christine

[Tuscan 6]

Well said Christine.

[Whizz]

On the subject of costs to get into motor racing - yes there are many relatively cheap ways to get into the sport. Some of the FW final 18 (including myself) have tried to get in to motorsport for a while and it is money that is holding some of us back. Although there are cheap ways to race, competitively, if you want to make a career out of it especially in single seaters, then for a season in e.g. Formula Ford you are looking at at least 30K. And assuming you do well you might do FRenault, etc etc up to F3 where no average person can take it out of their wages.... I would suggest that you need to get up to F3 before getting paid to race in saloons etc... although I am sure there are other routes which will cost money still. And that is what women AND men find difficult.

So if Formula Woman benefits up to 16 women by giving them an opportunity to get more experience and make something of themselves then it is a good idea. Nothing is ever perfect and people will always criticise - I know it has hurt a lot of people but hopefully the benefits will outweigh this.

[Tuscan 6]

But anyone who goes into racing believing they can make a living out of it is going to be disappointed.

A tiny percentage many make it, usually after years of hard graft and a lot of luck.

It is unrealistic to expect to go into a full season of FF at £30k as a novice - so newcomers have to start where they can, hopefully show some talent and success and use this to coax, cajole, beg borrow or steal funding to start moving up the ladder. Or win the lottery. Or sell the house, like I did.

I don't think FW has changed this one bit. It has given the 16/18 a bit of media profile which for a while may make it easier to raise sponsorship. But that, I reckon, is about the size of it.

As an aside - Whizz - are you Claire? If so I still haven't forgiven you for getting Scooby Doo drunk at Combe last year

[JohnMiller]

Originally posted by Tuscan 6
It is unrealistic to expect to go into a full season of FF at £30k as a novice

Not necessarily, ask for a quote that doesn't include bull****.

[Tuscan 6]

ok - it is unrealistic to expect to raise £30k in sponsorship having done nothing previously (whether or not it actually costs £30k to do a season in FF...)

[Russfeld]

Well if you're looking for sponsorship based on results and not activated exposure, you're screwed

[Whizz]

Which is why Formula Woman is good because it gives exposure to the women who got to the final 16.... and gives them a chance.

And no I am not Claire, sorry Tuscan 6

[Whizz]

Incidentally Tuscan 6 I do remember repairing the fibreglass of your car last year at Castle Combe.

I do have one point to make - you said you are doing well in the challenge with very little experience but surely you must have quite a lot - National A licence is required for Tuscans - correct me if I am wrong - so that is 9 races at least by my reckoning, plus the season last year - makes quite a lot of experience!

Congratulations on doing well by the way

[Tuscan 6]

Ah - penny dropped - now I know who you are Whizz! My lack of experience certainly showed at Combe last year with two accidents on the same day! How are things?

Re. my experience - I got my National B last May. I did two weekends in Caterhams (double headers) to get 4 signatures, a day's marshalling and a one day ARDS course to get the other 2 signatures for my National A (which is 6 signatures rather than the 10 it used to be).

So I went into Tuscans with the absolute minimum experience possible - and did the last 4 meetings in 2003.

At the first meeting I retired from both races on the second lap with an oil leak. The remaining races were ok, other than an off at Combe in practice and a DNF at Brands (you were there too if I recall correctly - hmm, is there a link?!).

So a total of 6 race weekends in 2003. In Tuscan terms I'm still in the kindergarten.

This season, having now done 7 meetings (14 races), clearly I no longer consider myself a novice. But I am continuously learning and it obviously helps to be racing against people (who in this case happen to all be blokes) who have vastly more experience.

Its great fun but very, very hard work. It takes up virtually all of my free time, all my holiday and certainly all my money. And getting sponsorship is a continuous battle.

Why was it that only one reserve got to race at Brands and how was it decided which would? Do you have anything in the pipeline for races? E mail me off line if you'd prefer - contact details on my website.

[R59]

Originally posted by Tuscan 6
But anyone who goes into racing believing they can make a living out of it is going to be disappointed.

Can't remember who said it, but...

How to end up with a small fortune through Motorsport.

Start with a very large one.

[Fizzgig]

And I recall someone telling me that there are only about 30 drivers IN THE WORLD who are paid a salary as oppose to having to bring sponsers in themselves. A sobering thought....

[Tuscan 6]

Originally posted by racing59
Can't remember who said it, but...

How to end up with a small fortune through Motorsport.

Start with a very large one.

My other favourite:

How can you tell if there is a racing driver in the room at a party?

Don't worry, he'll tell you.....

[greenamex2]

Harsh but probably fair in a large number of instances.

[Snapperjack]

Off topic, but, nice web site you have there Tuscan 6.

[StephenRae]

Originally posted by Fizzgig
And I recall someone telling me that there are only about 30 drivers IN THE WORLD who are paid a salary as oppose to having to bring sponsers in themselves. A sobering thought....

Now that would make for an interesting thread! Probably half of them are in F1, 3 or 4 at Le Mans and maybe the rest in Australia and America.

[racingdad]

It is a valid point, but not quite true - NASCAR drivers are paid - and very well; Indy ca & IRL top drivers are paid; F1 top drivers and some testers are paid - and so on. In the BTCC there are a maximum of 6 paid drivers and in the supporting series I know of 1.....

But the fact remains that 99.9% of all racing drivers either pay directly or bring a sponsor - in fact most professional drivers actually earn their living from the difference between what they raise in sponsorship and what gets paid to the teams

[Tuscan 6]

Originally posted by Snapperjack
Off topic, but, nice web site you have there Tuscan 6.

Thanks :blush:

[AussieV8]

It would be nice if ESPN or Foxsport took up highlights of the girls in the RX8's so some of us that aren't native to the UK can see the action.

[mark_l]

AussieV8, you are not missing much, the races on the whole have been dull affairs with the odd spin brought about by inexperience rather than as a result of close racing.

The TV programmes seem to consist more of driver interviews rather than race action as there is not enough of the latter to fill the 30min programmes, add in a big helping of commercial break in the middle to pad it out as well.

They are already talking about next years championship. I only hope the TV companies put Formula Woman out of its misery over the winter by refusing to show it next year.

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally posted by Ghirlracer
Perhaps what said it all was that in Scotland at the moment there is a very good up-and-coming female driver (who in fact won her first Formula Ford race the meeting after FWoman visited), who the radio presenters kept trying to make a big thing out of, in connection to FWoman visiting - when they interviewed her and asked her the standard questions about what it's like to be a female driver against the men, she wasn't interested, and made it very clear that she thinks of herself as just another driver; gender doesn't matter, and she doesn't think she should be trested differently just because she's female.

Can I assum you are talking about Sarah?

If it is shes not been as quick as Lucy when they've met on the track this year.

[djinvicta]

If all you knockers had as much up front as these lovely ladies, most of these replies would not exist. Sexist or what?