ParityParityParityParity - Page 16

malarky · 18 Oct 2004, 01:24 (Ref:1126983)

Absolutely I do.

It just lends more weight to the argument that a well sorted AU is a race winner. Just as in the main game,a well sorted BA is as well.

So like I said, there is no parity issue, unless TEGA want to give Holden some concessions?

Driver · 18 Oct 2004, 01:55 (Ref:1126992)

No that is not what I see and that is the joy of forums. I see it takes a level 1 AU to beat level 2 or 3 VT or VX Commodore. To me it proves they had no chance against the big teams in the main game.

But I believe Ford did drop the ball with the BA and not stick to their guns and demand the larger rear wing as originally designed.

malarky · 18 Oct 2004, 02:59 (Ref:1127005)

The BA and AU before it never suffered from a lack of raer downforce.

The BA was never designed with any other rear wing other than what it has.

The AU design (the one that was not allowed) was simply outside the rules, so it was never going to be approved.

Peregrine · 18 Oct 2004, 03:14 (Ref:1127008)

Wrong.....as per usual.

The AU package was created with its front splitter for ratification by the powers that be and it was rejected. It was not designed outside of the rules as the rules did not exist for the AU at the time.

The BA Falcon DID have it's own rear wing, take some time to have a look back through your beloved AA and look at the original that was driven by DJ at the mountain in 2002. Again, it was the same story, Ford submitted it's design and was knocked back AGAIN by the the powers that be, and again, it was not outside the rules.....

deeks6 · 18 Oct 2004, 04:47 (Ref:1127028)

What would you expect from a reader of Auto Fiction?

The name says it all really ... malarky

Like all of the all red-goggled brigade - you could put up an XP with a 170 Pursuit in it and they'd say it was a fair contest ... just enjoy it while you can because eventually when Ford decide to stop getting kicked around, they'll have to either turn to Toyota (who won't stand for all the shyte that Ford does) or have a one-make series.

malarky · 18 Oct 2004, 04:55 (Ref:1127031)

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree then.

Because the original AU front splitter (not the one that finally appeared on the racecar) was part of the Harbutt design that was outside the TEGA guidelines (front undertray area was too large for a start).

The re-design that was fitted to the AU was a rushed effort that Harbutt just got through in time. The rear wing that Ford originaly submitted for the AU had three large cut outs in it's trailing edge that (once again) TEGA rejected and the revised EL rear wing with it's 12 slots was finally approved.

Don't you remember the 'body kit lottery' that Ford instigated with it's teams? Reducing them to picking the short straw to get kits in time for the opening round?

I remember Seton and Larkham calling it a joke at the time.

Nobody's fault but Ford's I'm afraid....

I don't hide my Holden bias but I also believe that my arguments are rational and supported by fact.

Ford won the championship last year and are leading this year with 2 of 3 endurance race wins under their belt.

If any driver or team is capable of doing that with a car, then so are other drivers and teams. That's my point.

The only performance increase Ford needs is smarter work from their teams and a little more application by their drivers.

They won't get a parity help along, because they simply don't need it, and if you think differently then it is you who has the bias issue, not me.

Less of this

more of this

and Ford might get more of these

instead of just one

William Dale Jr · 18 Oct 2004, 08:55 (Ref:1127110)

Quote:

Originally posted by malarky
The rear wing that Ford originaly submitted for the AU had three large cut outs in it's trailing edge that (once again) TEGA rejected and the revised EL rear wing with it's 12 slots was finally approved.

Wasn't it the original EL wing that had the three slots and was rejected by TEGA? Or did it happen to both the EL and AU aero kits?

Schrodes · 18 Oct 2004, 11:57 (Ref:1127231)

Regarding the pre-blueprint era, wasn't the rule for the front splitter that it couldn't protrude further forward of the dimensions of the front bumper on the production version of the car and the rule for the rear wing was that it couldn't be outside the dimensions of where the rear bumper would be on the production version of the car? If you look at a production AU and VT/VX you would see that the AU has a shorter 'nose' than the VT/VX giving the Commodores more room for a bigger front undertray. This immediately puts Ford at a disadvantage before any undertray designing has even started. This is why Holden were told to cut 100mm off their VT undertrays, so it would be closer in size to the AU undertray.
As for the blueprint cars, the Falcons splitter and rear wing are outside the dimensions of the bumpers so the Falcon can get the balance it was lacking with the AU.

PS: I use the word bumpers loosely, you cant really bump anything in these cars, if you do you get a face full of airbag.

deeks6 · 29 Oct 2004, 06:28 (Ref:1139553)

"You don't think we're just going to let you walk out of here"

Update on Parity stats:

Top 10 Qualifying positions: Holden 69 Ford 51
Top 10 Finishing positions: Holden 140 Ford 90
Top 10 Race times: Holden 139 Ford 91
Fastest Lap: Holden 14 Ford 9
Fastest 5 Times Better Qualifying: Holden 9 Ford 3
Fastest 10 Times Better Qualifying: Holden 10 Ford 2
Fastest 5 Times Better in Race: Holden 18 Ford 5
Fastest 10 Times Better in Race: Holden 19 Ford 4
Number of times that Holden's average time of Top 10 is quicker than Ford's Top 5 (Qualifying): 4 out of 12
Number of times that Holden's average time of Top 10 is quicker than Ford's Top 5 (Race): 11 out of 23
Average Qualifying Top 5(all tracks): Holden 1.26.561, Ford 1.26.74 (slow by .179)
Average Qualifying Top 10 (all tracks): Holden 1.26.858, Ford 1.27.027 (slow by .169).
Pole Positions: Holden 10 Ford 2

Surfers Ford's best round comparitively.

Joe5619 · 29 Oct 2004, 06:54 (Ref:1139562)

Number of times BA/VY wins championship: 2 VS 0!!

Game over.. Parity right!!

Hapul · 31 Oct 2004, 10:47 (Ref:1141163)

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe5619
Number of times BA/VY wins championship: 2 VS 0!!

Game over.. Parity right!!

You speak of it as a game where winning is all. There are 31 other blokes looking for a top 10 and the red boys aren't doing badly in that regard...

Mattracer · 31 Oct 2004, 11:24 (Ref:1141188)

Fortunately/unfortunately, only one of them can finish first. That car, whichever 'make' it is, is the championship winner.

Schrodes · 9 Dec 2004, 05:07 (Ref:1174977)

Well look what I found buried all the way back at page 6!
A thread about Ford needing a parity adjustment in a season where they finished first and second in the championship!
What a crock.

Raglanparade · 9 Dec 2004, 05:22 (Ref:1174981)

Bowe was still whinging in the Tasmainian round that the Ford has less rear downforce then the Holden.

Im sure if he was as successful he wouldnt be whinging, cuz you dont hear Russel or Marcos whinging about parity anymore.

Its blokes like Bowe, Jones, Seton who are the main victims of it now... blokes who are past there prime and should get out of v8's and give drivers who actually have a chance of winning a shot

As far as im concerned, parity is an issue of the past in V8 Supercars.

Peregrine · 9 Dec 2004, 05:41 (Ref:1174987)

Nice try, but we all know the truth when SBR and all of Holden's self destruction this year is removed from the equation.

deeks6 · 9 Dec 2004, 11:06 (Ref:1175155)

Indeed, Mr Peregrine...

Update on Parity stats:

Top 10 Qualifying positions: Holden 80 Ford 60
Top 10 Finishing positions: Holden 168 Ford 122
Top 10 Race times: Holden 169 Ford 121
Fastest Lap: Holden 17 Ford 12
Race Wins: Holden 16 Ford 13
Different Race Winners: Holden 6 Ford 3
Fastest 5 Times Better Qualifying: Holden 10 Ford 4
Fastest 10 Times Better Qualifying: Holden 11 Ford 3
Fastest 5 Times Better in Race: Holden 21 Ford 8
Fastest 10 Times Better in Race: Holden 22 Ford 7
Number of times that Holden's average time of Top 10 is quicker than Ford's Top 5 (Qualifying): 5 out of 14
Number of times that Holden's average time of Top 10 is quicker than Ford's Top 5 (Race): 13 out of 29
Pole Positions: Holden 11 Ford 3

Take out SBR (as we have said before) and it is just as big a Holden whitewash as ever...
Take out the Holden driver/team errors and the results would be even more skewed.

To use the old Holden fans line - "just because one team is dominating is no reason to penalise the other teams in the same make"

tiko · 9 Dec 2004, 21:34 (Ref:1175657)

Include SBR and you have back-to-back championships with FORD and a 1-2 for FORD in the 2005 championship. Stats aside deeks a FORD has shown it is capable of winning, its also capable of convincing wins, and clinching back-toback championships. A sure sign of other Ford teams finally getting their act together is the recent performace of the Lowndes FPR car, running at the front at Indy and Eastern Creek and the performance of the two 888 cars at Eastern Creek on the weekend in qualifying and racing quietly proved what the BA is capable of when the teams and drivers hit the right formula.

Peregrine · 9 Dec 2004, 22:51 (Ref:1175730)

tiko, that is why I am proud to be a Ford fan, because despite the obvious disadvantage we are still able to nail the lions hide to the wall. Gotta love the underdog !!!

Speed Kills · 9 Dec 2004, 23:34 (Ref:1175762)

I think the answer to Parity for year 2005 is the final championship standings.

Postions 1 - 10. 5 Holdens/5 Fords
Postions 11 - 20. 5 Holdens/5 Fords
Postions 21 - 30. 5 Holdens/5 Fords

That looks pretty close for my mind.

Sandgroper · 10 Dec 2004, 01:19 (Ref:1175823)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeks6

Indeed, Mr Peregrine...

Update on Parity stats:

Top 10 Qualifying positions: Holden 80 Ford 60
Top 10 Finishing positions: Holden 168 Ford 122
Top 10 Race times: Holden 169 Ford 121
Fastest Lap: Holden 17 Ford 12
Race Wins: Holden 16 Ford 13
Different Race Winners: Holden 6 Ford 3
Fastest 5 Times Better Qualifying: Holden 10 Ford 4
Fastest 10 Times Better Qualifying: Holden 11 Ford 3
Fastest 5 Times Better in Race: Holden 21 Ford 8
Fastest 10 Times Better in Race: Holden 22 Ford 7
Number of times that Holden's average time of Top 10 is quicker than Ford's Top 5 (Qualifying): 5 out of 14
Number of times that Holden's average time of Top 10 is quicker than Ford's Top 5 (Race): 13 out of 29
Pole Positions: Holden 11 Ford 3

Take out SBR (as we have said before) and it is just as big a Holden whitewash as ever...
Take out the Holden driver/team errors and the results would be even more skewed.

To use the old Holden fans line - "just because one team is dominating is no reason to penalise the other teams in the same make"

Parity maybe the same for both holden or Ford,
But did you ever stop to think it maybe the Drivers ability here and not the actual vehicle????????

Schrodes · 10 Dec 2004, 07:31 (Ref:1175890)

Here is another update on parity stats.
Ford BA Falcon championship wins. 2.
Holden VY Commodore championship wins. 0.
This is not parity.
Perhaps the Ford whingers will be happier when Ford pulls out.

deeks6 · 10 Dec 2004, 10:02 (Ref:1175980)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

Parity maybe the same for both holden or Ford,
But did you ever stop to think it maybe the Drivers ability here and not the actual vehicle????????

I have absolutely no doubt about that at all...ask Russell Ingall who always said that the best drivers were with Holden (until he got to Ford)...or check the results of Marcos Ambrose when he was beating Button, Raikkonnen and Pizzonia in European f3...
But...
If that is the case, how come the likes of Tod/Rick Kelly, Richards and right down to dale Brede can post faster lap times than Lowndes, Bowe, Ingall, Bargs etc ??? at most tracks?

billy bigtime · 10 Dec 2004, 10:23 (Ref:1175996)

D 15 PARITY
15.1 There will be a parity system that will automatically identify any disparity between the
various makes and models of cars competing in the Championship. This system will
also identify the magnitude of any disparity and provide a process where changes to
the specification of the Cars required to address the disparity, can be identified. The
system is based on an automatic analysis of lap times, directly from the AVESCO
timing system after each Round.
15.2 The TEGA Board will annually appoint the TEGA Parity Committee who will undertake
Parity reviews after each round of the VCS. They will report their findings following the
guidelines set by the TEGA Board, which will be advised to the Teams from time to
time.

deeks6 · 10 Dec 2004, 18:00 (Ref:1176394)

The TEGA Parity Committee made up of who? Check the history of that little group...

Who's watching the kids??????

A9X05 · 11 Dec 2004, 03:08 (Ref:1176758)

I dont think there is any parity dispute, I think that SBR have the right Driver, and Team/Car combination going around and most likely on a lot less budget than most of the (at least) top Ford runners! They have beaten the best from both the red and blue side 2 years in a row now, so it sure not any co-incidence that they are the best at the present time!
We hear the talk of 'But if we take SBR away there are Holdens ," It is the same old talk from when HRT were at the top, so it all goes around ! I remember this years Bathurst and there was a lone Kmart car being followed by a swag of Fords , I'f only we could of taken away the Holden we heard the Ford boys cry ! So I think that its pretty even, its just that SBR are doing a great job,in the championship at least! and the rest of the Fords are playing catch ups which makes it look worse!
I think whats also happening is SBR are riding that crest of a winning wave at present and are the new bench mark, as history shows has been the same through out the years gone by! But then that wave crashes , and as we saw from the "allmighty" this year they (HRT) are running towards the back for what ever excuse you can think of!
Maybe SBR supplying Engines to other Ford teams next year will even up the racing a bit more ???
From a Holden follower, Congratulations to SBR on a great job well done, and well may Marcos's helmet to fit him for many years to come not like some others I could mention!( yes even some Holden racers too!)