CC Racing Developments Group 1 Ford Capri Mk III's

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Although he does still have his Firenza (which was a rebuild of his Viva GT), his Burlington Wallcoverings BMW 635 and his Listerine RS 500 Sierra, the one car he did sell, (and he wishes he'd hung on to it) was the Capri which Tony Sugden bought.

Ah yes that's right, Sugden bought it and IIRC we were wondering back in the thread what happened to it after that.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Although he does still have his Firenza (which was a rebuild of his Viva GT), his Burlington Wallcoverings BMW 635 and his Listerine RS 500 Sierra, the one car he did sell, (and he wishes he'd hung on to it) was the Capri which Tony Sugden bought.

Thanks for clearing that up... what a pity.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Capri Carl

Hi Peter, These are some pics of the front and rear suspension, not sure what you mean "tweaked front end" it would be great to see a pic of a CC front suspension to compare.
BTW do you remember I spoke to you on the phone 4 or so years ago when I was in London, I think you were out of the country at time.
Capri Carl

Hi Carl. I struggle to remember four minutes ago let alone four years but it does ring a bell. I'm still out of the country though.

As to the pics. Certainly that front end is on the limit of Group 1, although I'd argue that all of the components pick up on the original mounts. But that is what I was referring to albeit obliquely.

The rear end is group 2 no doubt. You can't add mounting points under Group 1 regs and so the original A/R bar is the only one allowed, with no addition tramp bars.

Good info and good pics, thanks for sharing them.

[Hermansen]

Are there some who have pictures of GR.1 engine and enginedata.
And was there something called GR.2 in MK3.

Mvh
Lennart

[Peter Mallett]

A little off topic but yes, there were Group 2 MkIII Capri's. They ran the "bubble" style wheel arches, GAA engines with triple carb "X-Pack" set up. Multi link suspension and centre lock wheels.

In fact Dave Thomas had an Ex Spice Group 1 shell built to Group 2 Spec.

[Nick Ellis]

Hi Peter, long time no see.The photos of the Nelson Capri are great stuff indeed,would these modifications be Aussie Gpc (pre-`85) similar to Europes Gp2,
or would the GpA regs permit them with their more race-minded suspension and
brake regulations.I dont recall seeing a rear axle layout like this before,but i am
more familiar with prod-saloon/Gp1 regs which are less free!

[Peter Mallett]

Hi Nick,

It is a long time!

Agreed the suspension does indeed look to be Gp2.

[Finbin]

Slightly off topic, as I don’t think it was a C.C car, but I found this picture of Win Percy Samuri Capri. Same colour scheme as his more famous Celica.
I think I took this at Mallory Park about 1978, but I can’t be sure.
I know someone will correct me if I am wrong.

[Hermansen]

What was it that was reinforced at a GAA engine,which was not no a regular Essex engine.

Mvh
Lennart

[Peter Mallett]

The Ford GA was a Cosworth developed 3.4 litre engine with twin overhead cam and all steel bottom end. It was (among other things) dry sumped.

They selected special blocks from Ford at Daganham (but the story goes these were junked in favour of special cosworth castings), in order to comply with the Grp2 regs in force at the time.

http://homepages.ezysurf.co.nz/~collx/RS3100GP2.pdf

So nothing at all like an Essex V6 2994cc single cam engine.

[Hermansen]

Thanks Peter

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Nick Ellis

Hi Peter, long time no see.The photos of the Nelson Capri are great stuff indeed,would these modifications be Aussie Gpc (pre-`85) similar to Europes Gp2?

Yes the Lawrie Nelson car ran in ATCC during the Grp C era (Not sure but it may have been converted to Grp A when those regs took over in 1985?). I was wondering about the similarity between Australia's Group C and Europe's Grp 2 now you mention it!

See Capri Carl's posts as he knows this driver/car quite well by the looks of it.

Originally Posted by Finbin

Slightly off topic, as I don’t think it was a C.C car, but I found this picture of Win Percy Samuri Capri. Same colour scheme as his more famous Celica.
I think I took this at Mallory Park about 1978, but I can’t be sure.
I know someone will correct me if I am wrong.
Attachment 31229

Crikey Finbin, you've posted another rare shot there! This pic may date even earlier than 1978 as I think Win was possibly driving a TWR or Toleman entered BMW 530 that season, not sure?

Win certainly pedalled Capris in 1976/77 so my guess is it could be from one of those years?

Can anyone offer any more info?

Oh and keep them coming Finbin!

[Nick Ellis]

The Win Percy Capri from Finbins photo was from the 1977 season.In`76 Percy ran
the Celica,`77 the IIRC the(Anderson?) prepped Capri No 3 in BSCC.For 1978 Win
was back in a Toyota again.The BSCC did not have around at Mallory in `77,also
the paddock looks too smooth/stoneless to be Donington at that time,so only
Silverstone,oulton which were mainly grassed areas,Thruxton i think concrete/grass.Brands would be Tarmac & probably on the slope of support race area.Right i`ll get my anorak...

[chunterer]

Great, thanks for that info Nick

Didn't Percy also have a go or two in a Bee-em in 78?

[Finbin]

[QUOTE=Nick Ellis;2831729]The Win Percy Capri from

Finbins photo was from the 1977 season.In`76 Percy ran
the Celica,`77 the IIRC the(Anderson?) prepped Capri No 3 in BSCC.For 1978 Win
was back in a Toyota again.The BSCC did not have around at Mallory in `77,also
the paddock looks too smooth/stoneless to be Donington at that time,so only
Silverstone,oulton which were mainly grassed areas,Thruxton i think concrete/grass.Brands would be Tarmac & probably on the slope of support race area.Right i`ll get my anorak...

I know someone would correct me.

I was too young to drive in 77, so had to tag along with my brother. He never went to Oulton or Donington back then in his mighty 1300 Cortina!

If I had to choose one of them I would say it was Thruxton, you are right Brands and Silverstone had tarmac and concrete.

[Capri Carl]

Originally Posted by Nick Ellis

Hi Peter, long time no see.The photos of the Nelson Capri are great stuff indeed,would these modifications be Aussie Gpc (pre-`85) similar to Europes Gp2,
or would the GpA regs permit them with their more race-minded suspension and
brake regulations.I dont recall seeing a rear axle layout like this before,but i am
more familiar with prod-saloon/Gp1 regs which are less free!

Hi Nick, to answer your question re Australian Group C, It was a development of production car racing from the late '60s early '70s.
We had a "super car scare" and the big three, Ford, Holden(GM) and Chrysler stopped making special models for racing. Group C were rules made to make the cars more raceable from '72 on. Every year most team got more consessions to make them faster than the other makes. For the English cars, Escorts,Capri's, Triumphs etc they followed Gp1 but got extras every few years. ie 1980 10" wide wheels were avalible and small flares were needed to cover the wheels,1983 disc brake rear was avalible.
There was only about 6 or 7 Mk 11/111 Capri's that raced in Group C.
I have 2 Group C Mk111 Capri's 1 is restored to 1980 spec and I race it in historic racing in Australia. The second is the Lawrie Nelson car, it is in need of restoration. It will be brought back to 1983 spec. This car was never converted to Group A, It finished racing in the ATCC in '83/'84 then Lawrie Nelson moved to a Group A Mustang for some years after that.
My other Capri was converted to Group A and raced for 2 years but was out classed and not worth the trouble I'm told.
There were 3 Capri's converted to Group A and only 1 left in this spec, it now sits in a museum unraced for many years.
If you go to Youtube and type in Capri Carl there is 3 clips. We will have some more in the next week or so from an event at Bathurst 2 weekends ago.

[GBRM]

The photo of Win's Capri is from Thruxton 1977.
There were three races there for '77 in Group 1 (almost like BTCC today!!); 11th April, 19th June and 11th September and I'm going to plump for the April round.

P.S. I have a photo of my late Dad leading Win at Thruxton and it's not wet, cold and miserable and I'm not that old!!

[Hermansen]

There really is not anyone have some pictures of capri engine GR1 and GR2.

Best Regards
Lennart
Capri 3.0RS 1980

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by Capri Carl

Hi Nick, to answer your question re Australian Group C, It was a development of production car racing from the late '60s early '70s.
We had a "super car scare" and the big three, Ford, Holden(GM) and Chrysler stopped making special models for racing. Group C were rules made to make the cars more raceable from '72 on. Every year most team got more consessions to make them faster than the other makes. For the English cars, Escorts,Capri's, Triumphs etc they followed Gp1 but got extras every few years. ie 1980 10" wide wheels were avalible and small flares were needed to cover the wheels,1983 disc brake rear was avalible.
There was only about 6 or 7 Mk 11/111 Capri's that raced in Group C.
I have 2 Group C Mk111 Capri's 1 is restored to 1980 spec and I race it in historic racing in Australia. The second is the Lawrie Nelson car, it is in need of restoration. It will be brought back to 1983 spec. This car was never converted to Group A, It finished racing in the ATCC in '83/'84 then Lawrie Nelson moved to a Group A Mustang for some years after that.
My other Capri was converted to Group A and raced for 2 years but was out classed and not worth the trouble I'm told.
There were 3 Capri's converted to Group A and only 1 left in this spec, it now sits in a museum unraced for many years.
If you go to Youtube and type in Capri Carl there is 3 clips. We will have some more in the next week or so from an event at Bathurst 2 weekends ago.

Capri Carl, who raced your car as a group A? I know that John Craft and Laurie Hazelton seemed to be the usual suspects, but at least Craft was racing a Capri alongside the Bo Seton/Don Smith car, so likely not his former car.

Jesper

[Capri Carl]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Capri Carl, who raced your car as a group A? I know that John Craft and Laurie Hazelton seemed to be the usual suspects, but at least Craft was racing a Capri alongside the Bo Seton/Don Smith car, so likely not his former car.

Jesper

Hi Jesper, my car is the car owned and raced by John Craft, He bought it from Bo Seton in early 1981, raced it for 3 seasons as a Group C car then in 1984 converted it to a Group A car for the Sandown 500 and Bathurst 1000. I 1985 he got hold of another ex Group C car (ex Masterton Homes ex Seton) and converted this as well forming a 2 car team under Hulcraft Autos. Did most of the ATCC but not Bathurst. For 1986 Dennis Horley leased(?) the 2 cars painted them black with Netcomm sponsorship they did 4 or 5 races including GP support in Adelaide and Sandown 500.
The group A Capri was not very competitive and Dennis Horley sent the cars back to Craft, he took his sponsorship money and raced a Skyline.
My car was sold to a Rally driver and competed in numerous rallies in NSW.
The second Group A went to John Harris and at somestage converted back to Group C. It is still with him and competed in some historic racing 3 or 4 years ago. He also has the other Masterton Homes team Group C Capri. The other Group A Capri, the Hazelton car was constucted for 1984. He wrote off his Group C Capri at Bathurst 1983, it mounted the wall and stayed there for some time.This Group A car now resides with John Harris also and hasn't been seen out for many years. This is the only one left in Group A trim.
Capri Carl

[Jesper OH]

Thank you for a very informative post, Capri Carl, regarding the group A history of these cars. The Skyline you refer to must be the Murray Carter car, but going OT now.

Jesper

[chunterer]

Carl, going back a couple of posts, you mentioned that the Capris were bascially in Group 1 spec but with a few local Grp C mods, is that right?

I guess that explains a bit more clearly how a CC Racing suspension kit was bolted onto one of the Group C cars as I had been wondering how such a thing would have been eligible for a different set of regs!!

This is all very interesting and something I'd like to understand a bit further.

Is there any chance you could give us a heads up on the what 'extras' a GrpC Capri might run over a basic G1 spec car, other than the body arches of course?

[Peter Mallett]

Chunterer,

The suspension you saw was not Group 1. You can't run that fully adjustable front arb set up, it has to be the standard item. Likewise multi linking the rear end is not Group 1.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Chunterer,

The suspension you saw was not Group 1. You can't run that fully adjustable front arb set up, it has to be the standard item. Likewise multi linking the rear end is not Group 1.

Yes the shots were taken from the underneath of a Grp C car, i'm not suggesting that it was G1 but I think Carl was suggesting that they ran their Capris over there with G1 bits?

Unless the CC suspension was bought to order rather than as standard and then modified over there?

I'm easily confused!!!

[KA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Thank you for a very informative post, Capri Carl, regarding the group A history of these cars. The Skyline you refer to must be the Murray Carter car, but going OT now.

Jesper

Staying O/T- Yes, AFAIK it was Murray Carter's Skyline, which changed colours from light blue to black, with Horley's 'Nettcomm' sponsorship replacing Bill O'Brien's 'Everlast Batteries' backing. IIRC Horley and the Nettcomm money stayed on board when Carter moved on to an RS500.

Back on-topic, don't remember whether this pic has appeared in the thread before- John & Pat Hogbin, Hulcraft Autos Capri.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/peteraus53/1420212351/in/photostream/


Looking at the 1985 ATCC thread could this be at Sandown? (the previous pics in the series show the Johnson Mustang and Grice/Cullen Commodore- there are shots of Peter Williamson's Supra, the Petch Volvo etc earlier in the album as well