Merger talks again?

[mac]

Originally Posted by indycool

It has little chance of happening in '07, IMO......and I've never understood the love affair some seem to have with the DP-01 when all we've seen of one is an artist's rendering, none of the "underneaths" and very few details other than PR blather.

All I know is it looks a gigantic amount better than the current IRL-mobiles. It is like comparing Scarlett Johansson with an aardvark.

[Snrub]

I just can't fathom what is left to discuss. What could possibly stand in the way. As people have said, what's the big deal if some people don't get a couple of their favorite tracks, or their exact engine/chasis spec? The potential benefits blow all of that away. Does anyone have any idea what the biggest sticking issues are?

[jv#12]

http://www.presstelegram.com/columnists/ci_3986988


Today's car-chasing, soccer-ranting edition of The Sporting Muse: There are about 1,000 good reasons for the Champ Car World Series to find peace with the Indy Racing League and unify the open-wheel auto racing world, and one bad one.
That would be Tony George, who owns and runs the IRL.

George is the one who created the schism, using his Indy 500 to strong-arm control of the sport away from the racing teams. And despite the sport having been lapped several times by NASCAR and in danger of becoming irrelevant, George's self-interests keep getting in the way.

After a weekend report saying that a merger was close, George this week lambasted the report and said the two units aren't that close yet. There's simply no more room for posturing at this point in the fray, so anything George says sounds like the bitter ruminations of a man oblivious to the fact he's bleeding to death.

A source close to one of the sides said George is dragging his heels on the most sensible issue. Champ Car co-owner Kevin Kalkhoven has deals in place for engines and a new chassis in 2007 that are cost-efficient, but George is paranoid that a merger would look too much like a Champ Car win and IRL surrender.

If there is a joint operating agreement which seems more likely now than a full merger if wouldn't take effect until 2008, with limited crossover in 2007. The door would open for teams to have cars in both series but on a limited basis. At the most extreme, Champ Car teams might be able to run the Indy 500, and IRL teams one Champ Car race, presumably the Long Beach Grand Prix since it's the series headliner.

Sounds good, but it would mean teams would be putting a lot of effort in adjusting their cars for one race, which isn't cost-efficient or practical.

One gets the feeling that even a merger would prove rancorous as long as George is involved

[mountainstar]

Like I've said a million times over george will obstruct any plan no matter how reasonable. I think Mr. K knows that and is working on others who have a stake in this game to bring them over to our side. mr. g seems to have few friends right now and even fewer who are willing to bail him out.

[indycool]

That's baloney. It takes two to tango and we have no idea what the issues are remaining in a reformation or merger or whatever or who's holding out over what, or what is just plain not done yet. No point in beatin' up the big kids when they're tryin'.

[D.R.T.]

So hang on Indycool, people shouldnt speculate and comment on TG/ KK's actions in a merger, but you can speculate and comment on the future use of the DP 01 ?

[JohnSSC]

I think what IC is trying to say is that we have yet again another unattributable "source" who says blah blah blah. I am tired of these unattributable sources. I think that for the most part, these kind of quotes are essentially fabrications. There have been more quotes from more anonymous sources close to (fill in the blank: TG, KK, GF, The guy that changes the TP in the men's room) to fill a phone book - most of which have not been borne out by actual events.

Heck, I don't even know what I am thinking sometimes let alone "knowing" what TG or KK are thinking.

Commenting on photos of the car are different scenario - we can at least see the car. Attributing this or that action - even when we really don't know what the heck is going on - to the diabolical personality flaws of Owner X is pure speculation. None of us (Except maybe Team Owner here) have any direct access to what these gentlemen are saying/doing/thinking.

While the handwriting on the wall indicates merger, we really won't know until someone steps up to the microphones.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

I think what IC is trying to say is that we have yet again another unattributable "source" who says blah blah blah. I am tired of these unattributable sources.

Fair enough, however but then Tim also offered an unattributable source in reference to the DP 01.

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Commenting on photos of the car are different scenario - we can at least see the car.

I think it went further than simply commenting on pictures of the the car. For example

Originally Posted by indycool

It has little chance of happening in '07

[Tim Northcutt]

Let's put it this way...my source is connected with Panoz Motorsports Group...I could share more info with you on this, but I was told those parts in confidentially and will not betray that...

I'll leave it at that....

Let's don't re-hash the "Tony George Wrecked OW Racing" or "CART's Refused to Let TG On Their Board so He Built His Own Sandbox" arguments....

That happened 11 years ago...it can't be changed...it is history...

Fact is, no one on this forum "knows" for sure what the holdups or hangups are on the potential merger, because none of us have been part of the conversations between the parties involved....

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the potential merger as it develops and when info like we've read this week is published....

It is not to rip the scabs off of old wounds and hack at either series...

Please keep that in mind when you post.

[RaceFreak]

Actually this is the best discussion of the issue I've seen since the split. Kudos to everyone for keeping it as un-emotional as possible.

[Tim Northcutt]

I agree, Racefreak....I just wanted to make that note as a reminder so that it would continue to be this way

[Amar7605]

Originally Posted by indycool

Amar, that DP-01 chassis is NOT ready, has not been "on the ground" to test yet and there are some who are skeptical of its oval capabilities because it was commissioned by CC. which appears to be getting out of the oval business. I really can't get excited about it being any cog in the wheel of a merger, any more than MG/Judd engines were the CART deal a few years ago.

You bring up a valid point, but perhaps assuming that the new chassis is not ready for '07, then perhaps an '08 debut can be used as one of the cornerstones for a merger.

[Amar7605]

Originally Posted by jv#12

http://www.presstelegram.com/columnists/ci_3986988
Today's car-chasing, soccer-ranting edition of The Sporting Muse:
A source close to one of the sides said George is dragging his heels on the most sensible issue. Champ Car co-owner Kevin Kalkhoven has deals in place for engines and a new chassis in 2007 that are cost-efficient, but George is paranoid that a merger would look too much like a Champ Car win and IRL surrender.

This quote mede me think about TG. I am trying to be as objective and unemotional as possible, but I can't seem to shake off the notion that TG is not a good businessman. To me, it seems like the opportunity to save open wheel racing is right in front of him, and he doesn't seem to want to jump into the pool. Meanwhile, KK is trying to show some sense of reason, and TG doesn't want to meet half-way. Does TG not have the ability of strategic thinking?

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

Let's put it this way...my source is connected with Panoz Motorsports Group...I could share more info with you on this, but I was told those parts in confidentially and will not betray that...

Thanks Tim, I dont think anyone is expecting you to betray your contacts wishes.

My point was aimed at showing that the source indicated in the article could be solid aswell, but Indycool didnt want to here it, but is more than receptive of your source.

[climb]

If you just knew where KK is right now...

[Tim Northcutt]

Or where KK and/or TG might be visiting in the coming weeks....

[RaceFreak]

Originally Posted by climb

If you just knew where KK is right now...

KK is a buisnessman. Hopefully he'll be in the room next to the one in which Tony and Bernie are negotiating the next F1 contract (happening as we speak). If TG throws Bernie outta 'da house, imaging the potential of a joint CCWS vs. IRL "run-what-cha-brung'" race on the IMS road circuit.

Now THAT's a race I'd go to.

[norman-normal]

I don't think TG knows the tango.

[Tim Northcutt]

But I'll bet he can hum the tune "The Devil Went Down to Georgia"

[Fish_Flake]

He certainly knows "Dueling Banjos"...

[enemy-ace]

I just hope he knows "Reunited", as cheesey as it may have been.

[sr230772]

i dont see what f1 negotiating with ims and reunification of open wheel racing has to do with one and other.the rurmors this side say fi doesnt want to be in the us anymore

[RaceFreak]

Originally Posted by sr230772

i dont see what f1 negotiating with ims and reunification of open wheel racing has to do with one and other.

Tony is looking for opportunities to generate more revenue from IMS. F1 probably produces less revenue than IRL or NASCAR, while the sanctioning fees are probably the highest. If there is a means of replacing F1 revenue, he will be in a stronger bargaining position with Bernie (ie, to lower the sanctioning fee and improve his profit). The merge creates opportunity.

Bernie will not hesitate to use the demand for F1 races as leverage to push his fee up. Tony, while perhaps not the world's greatest buisnessman, is no fool. He'll use this tactic to blunt Bernie's demands.

While my explaination here may be abstract, Tony would be well advised to have someone at hand who can 'out-Bernie' Mr Ecclestone.

KK would be my choice.

[indycool]

Bernie's already politicking and positioning and posturing in Indy. He did an interview with Channel 6 two nights ago in which he poo-pooed how many Americans watched racing on TV compared to Italy and what a lousy market it was for him because of that. If he really does want to run here, IMO, those insults won't work here this time.

[Tim Northcutt]

I worked with the camera man tonight from Channel 6 who shot that interview with Eccelstone...

Bernie is such a clod...the photog told me that apparently Bernie didn't like the distance between the photog and himself and he pushed him....the camera man is 6'3' and weighs about 200 lbs.

Bernie is a munchkin....if the photog wasn't a professional (and he is...I've worked with him on stories for years), he would have squashed him like a roach.....