2022-2023 Silly Season Thread

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

I just asked someone from the FIA who would know and he said he can get the points from FP1s no problem.

There are only seven events left, so as long as he completes 100km at each round, that is seven points (and means he misses the remaining Indycar round).

20 points from 2020 IndyCar.
8 points from 2021 IndyCar.
7 points from F1 FP sessions.

That gives 35 points. Still short of the 40 points required, so he can't get the points 'no problem'.

His current 8th place in IndyCar gives a further 3 points taking him to 38 points.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

There are only seven events left, so as long as he completes 100km at each round, that is seven points (and means he misses the remaining Indycar round).

20 points from 2020 IndyCar.
8 points from 2021 IndyCar.
7 points from F1 FP sessions.

That gives 35 points. Still short of the 40 points required, so he can't get the points 'no problem'.

His current 8th place in IndyCar gives a further 3 points taking him to 38 points.

No I didn’t mean he would get to 40 that way alone. I meant he could get points that way, as opposed to this “started before / ended” etc. that you thought meant he couldn’t count them.

Also his final Indycar position could change from the current.

Anyway, IIRC, the whole point of this sub-discussion was people wanting the rules changed to be more favourable to Indycar drivers. People who don’t understand why the current rules are as they are.

I’m not bothered whether he gets to 40 or not but personally I hope they don’t bodge the rules for him.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Brilliant. I know the system well thanks. It’s decent article, even if there are some errors in it - such as how Herta can qualify for a 2023 licence being wrong. Presumably you now finally know why Indycar gets the points it does, and also see that any true Indycar front runner has no problem reaching the required benchmark. Glad you finally came full circle to understand, even if you’ll doubtless deny that.

Lol, if you say so.

Just because some people want the rules changed to be more favourable to IndyCar drivers, doesn't necessarily mean they don’t understand why the current rules are as they are.

As for Herta, he is currently 8th in the IndyCar driver's table, on 362 points. If he were to win at Laguna Seca, where he won last year, with a maximum of 54 poinrs, (1 for Pole, 2 for most laps lead and 1 for leading at least 1 lap), he would still finish 8th, which according to the Superlicence points system, would only give him 3 more Superlicence points and total of 38.

Regarding Free Practice, from 2020, the FIA's World Motor Sport Council has ratified that a driver with a free practice only super licence who completes at least 100km during a free practice session will earn an additional point per Grand Prix weekend, providing they do not pick up any licence penalty points.

The FIA has capped the number of points that can be accrued for driving in free practice sessions to 10 over a three-year period.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...KLlEL8kmR.html

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Skam85

The absolute irony of this sentence

Not if it only takes 5 minutes.....

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Lol, if you say so.

Just because some people want the rules changed to be more favourable to IndyCar drivers, doesn't necessarily mean they don’t understand why the current rules are as they are.

As for Herta, he is currently 8th in the IndyCar driver's table, on 362 points. If he were to win at Laguna Seca, where he won last year, with a maximum of 54 poinrs, (1 for Pole, 2 for most laps lead and 1 for leading at least 1 lap), he would still finish 8th, which according to the Superlicence points system, would only give him 3 more Superlicence points and total of 38.

Regarding Free Practice, from 2020, the FIA's World Motor Sport Council has ratified that a driver with a free practice only super licence who completes at least 100km during a free practice session will earn an additional point per Grand Prix weekend, providing they do not pick up any licence penalty points.

The FIA has capped the number of points that can be accrued for driving in free practice sessions to 10 over a three-year period.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...KLlEL8kmR.html

I see, so 8th s best he can do. A bad weekend and could easily drop a few places?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by peebee2

I see, so 8th s best he can do. A bad weekend and could easily drop a few places?

Currently Rossi is one point behind and Rosenqvist 2 points. So yes, he could.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Da Matta and Bourdais are two others. And Speed raced in European single seaters before F1

A bit of trivia, both Da Matta and Bourdais won their driver's championships with Newman-Haas.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Currently Rossi is one point behind and Rosenqvist 2 points. So yes, he could.

That silly shunt at the double-points 500 really costing him then…

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by peebee2

That silly shunt at the double-points 500 really costing him then…

The crash happened on Carb Day, destroying most of the car apart from the safety cell. He retired from the actual race.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Anyway, IIRC, the whole point of this sub-discussion was people wanting the rules changed to be more favourable to Indycar drivers. People who don’t understand why the current rules are as they are.

I thought the purpose of this sub-discussion was to score internet points by continually shifting the argument?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

The crash happened on Carb Day, destroying most of the car apart from the safety cell. He retired from the actual race.

Yeah, putting him in a road course-based back up car for the race having shunted in a pretty meaningless session.

[bella]

herta pings pretty much every single one of the euro-based driver red flags, doesn’t he?

or are we meant to ignore the nepotism, money and non-ideal results because indycar and murica? because if this was a driver looking to come up from f2 there’d be a lot more grumbling.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Anyway, IIRC, the whole point of this sub-discussion was people wanting the rules changed to be more favourable to Indycar drivers.

In a simplified view... Yes

Originally Posted by peebee2

People who don’t understand why the current rules are as they are.

I think we understand. We just don't agree with the "why". But there is really no point in rehashing this. I think everyone has made their points clear and even if we change minds of the participants of this thread (unlikely) it has zero impact on what happens anyhow.

Richard

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

In a simplified view... Yes


I think we understand. We just don't agree with the "why". But there is really no point in rehashing this. I think everyone has made their points clear and even if we change minds of the participants of this thread (unlikely) it has zero impact on what happens anyhow.

Richard

That’s right Richard.

I hear fans and journalists asking for change. I don’t hear many actually involved in racing doing so.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by peebee2

I don’t hear many actually involved in racing doing so.

I think its a mixed bag. You have McLaren and Red Bull being positive on working something out, while others are negative (including Domenicali which puts a nail in it). It is not to different than any discussion on change in F1. Nobody can agree on anything.

My guess is that Herta will not be racing in F1 in 2023 due to those who don't support the idea. They are generally hiding behind the rules and not talking about how the rules are structured. I think Domenicali mentioned considering making changes at a future date, but I don't see any follow through happening. As with anything in life, if the heat is removed there will be little incentive to change anything. F1 will be focused on some other drama. So we are likely to be right back here in the future with Herta or someone else from Indycar that will meet the public spirit of the rules, but will be held back as the rules are set to support FIA series and penalize others.

Its probably better if they just remove Indycar and any other non-FIA series from the license structure vs. giving it lip service. It would save a lot of grief for many people.

Richard

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I think its a mixed bag. You have McLaren and Red Bull being positive on working something out, while others are negative (including Domenicali which puts a nail in it). It is not to different than any discussion on change in F1. Nobody can agree on anything.

My guess is that Herta will not be racing in F1 in 2023 due to those who don't support the idea. They are generally hiding behind the rules and not talking about how the rules are structured. I think Domenicali mentioned considering making changes at a future date, but I don't see any follow through happening. As with anything in life, if the heat is removed there will be little incentive to change anything. F1 will be focused on some other drama. So we are likely to be right back here in the future with Herta or someone else from Indycar that will meet the public spirit of the rules, but will be held back as the rules are set to support FIA series and penalize others.

Its probably better if they just remove Indycar and any other non-FIA series from the license structure vs. giving it lip service. It would save a lot of grief for many people.

Richard

It doesn’t get lip service though, the front runners all qualify for a Super Licence. Anyway removing it would face legal difficulties.

There’s certainly something fishy about Dr Marko’s sudden interest. It can’t be results, could be PR in the USA or linked to some sort of Andretti buy in to AT, although it seems far-fetched why the Andrettis would be so desperate to bring one particular driver with them.

I’m sure Herta’s decent but he doesn’t look much more than Rossi who, despite trying and spending $ms for so many years, was never good enough. Maybe a bit quicker but crashes a lot more.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by peebee2

It doesn’t get lip service though, the front runners all qualify for a Super Licence. Anyway removing it would face legal difficulties.

There’s certainly something fishy about Dr Marko’s sudden interest. It can’t be results, could be PR in the USA or linked to some sort of Andretti buy in to AT, although it seems far-fetched why the Andrettis would be so desperate to bring one particular driver with them.

I’m sure Herta’s decent but he doesn’t look much more than Rossi who, despite trying and spending $ms for so many years, was never good enough. Maybe a bit quicker but crashes a lot more.

All this timed around Porsches apparent cold feet on Red Bull's proposed tie in.

Im sure the two arent connected, unless RB are using a Andretti tie idea in as leverage with Porsche

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Yeah, putting him in a road course-based back up car for the race having shunted in a pretty meaningless session.

I don't know how familiar you are with the Indy 500 and not wanting to go of topic and therefore briefly, back in the day Carb Day, or Carbonation Day, was the last opportunity for teams to go out on the track and adjust the carburetors before the race. Now it is the last practice session before the race, for teams to go out on the track and make adjustments to the car, so I wouldn't say it's meaningless at all. The car was a write off, so they didn't have much option but to use the back up car and it would need to be set up for oval racing.

Anyway, back on topic, Domenicalli is right, the rules for the Superlicence need to be respected. However, he does say “And if there is some point to be to discussed, if there is a need to update the rules, there is the right forum on which everyone can bring ideas or points for discussion. But today, the rule is that one should be respected. That’s my opinion.” That's fair-enough.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/stefan...-superlicence/

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I don't know how familiar you are with the Indy 500 and not wanting to go of topic and therefore briefly, back in the day Carb Day, or Carbonation Day, was the last opportunity for teams to go out on the track and adjust the carburetors before the race. Now it is the last practice session before the race, for teams to go out on the track and make adjustments to the car, so I wouldn't say it's meaningless at all. The car was a write off, so they didn't have much option but to use the back up car and it would need to be set up for oval racing.

Anyway, back on topic, Domenicalli is right, the rules for the Superlicence need to be respected. However, he does say “And if there is some point to be to discussed, if there is a need to update the rules, there is the right forum on which everyone can bring ideas or points for discussion. But today, the rule is that one should be respected. That’s my opinion.” That's fair-enough.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/stefan...-superlicence/

Thanks, am reasonably familiar with the session set up. My point was him shunting probably messed up his final championship position a bit, especially as it was double points. Did anybody else write their car off on Carb Day?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Thanks, am reasonably familiar with the session set up. My point was him shunting probably messed up his final championship position a bit, especially as it was double points. Did anybody else write their car off on Carb Day?

Going way of topic again, yes Malukas but he is a Rookie.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Going way of topic again, yes Malukas but he is a Rookie.

Ok, I thought Malukas still raced the primary car after his bump.

Point was Herta crashes way, way, way too often.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

My point was him shunting probably messed up his final championship position a bit, especially as it was double points.

It is a big stretch to claim that the Carb Day shunt messed up his championship - he is still 95 points behind 6th place which - in the context of this thread would only give him 4 more SL points.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It is a big stretch to claim that the Carb Day shunt messed up his championship - he is still 95 points behind 6th place which - in the context of this thread would only give him 4 more SL points.

Yes, which with FP1s would mean getting to the 40 required.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Anyway removing it would face legal difficulties.

I was mostly being snarky, but you are probably right on the legal front.

Originally Posted by peebee2

There’s certainly something fishy about Dr Marko’s sudden interest. It can’t be results, could be PR in the USA or linked to some sort of Andretti buy in to AT, although it seems far-fetched why the Andrettis would be so desperate to bring one particular driver with them.

The speculation in the press is Herta to AT to replace Gasly and Gasly to Alpine. So that is why you see those individuals championing the Herta super license.

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

All this timed around Porsches apparent cold feet on Red Bull's proposed tie in.

Im sure the two arent connected, unless RB are using a Andretti tie idea in as leverage with Porsche

IMHO, I don't think Porsche and Herta situations are related.

Originally Posted by peebee2

I’m sure Herta’s decent but he doesn’t look much more than Rossi who, despite trying and spending $ms for so many years, was never good enough. Maybe a bit quicker but crashes a lot more.

Herta may not be the perfect poster child for arguments being made here. I think it is possible to create a scenario in which good drivers are just not able to break out due to the competitiveness of Indycar. And that would block them from moving to F1. See my earlier posts regarding if the same rules were applies to F1 for entry into Indycar. Difficulty in breaking into the top of F1 drivers rankings would likely block many good drivers from making the transition.

Hopefully the last post by me (topic has been beat to death). I think a core problem is that FIA treats Indycar as a feeder series. That the "cream of the crop" are ready to move "up" to F1. While the cream of the crop in Indycar probably don't want to move.

Richard

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Yes, which with FP1s would mean getting to the 40 required.

Well considering that he had 10 points for his Indy500 result, and the only driver who got more than 105 points was Ericsson then yes - you could say that his shunt has cost him the chance of an F1 drive.

But really - that is clutching so far at straws to try and make a point.