Group A Rover 3500 SD1/Vitesse - History & Whereabouts

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Yep, Mr Higgati has been fantastic and has thoroughly enjoyed doing something non-MG for a change!!

Your name has come up several times and he speaks mostly highly of you.

I'm not sure if he'll be at Spa, depends if someone crosses his palm with silver I'll let him know you asked after him.

To try and keep this post on thread he does know a lot about 005 and also he was still great friends with Steve Soper back in the SD1 days so has got pretty good knowledge of them and all the little tricks they had.

[Peter Mallett]

Well, if anyone knows about the post TWR history of that car it is him. I saw it in Colin's barn in IIRC 1992(?). I think I'm right in saying Gerry drove it at Oulton Park in 1993 in a forerunner to the CTCRC (CSCC as was) pre 83 championship. I know, it was an allcomers race so the age was not important.

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Well, if anyone knows about the post TWR history of that car it is him. I saw it in Colin's barn in IIRC 1992(?). I think I'm right in saying Gerry drove it at Oulton Park in 1993 in a forerunner to the CTCRC (CSCC as was) pre 83 championship. I know, it was an allcomers race so the age was not important.

Funnily enough Vince and I had a good chat about that race, as Colin bet Dad he would beat him in his Rover Turbo. Needless to say Dad was over half a lap in front of Colin when the distributor broke, game over, so I suppose Colin was half right!!
The bizarre thing is I bought a programme off ebay the other day and it came this morning and guess what, Oulton Park, 9th October 1993, Race 6, CSCC pre'83 Group 1 touring car race, Gerry Marshall Class B, Rover Vitesse/3528, Colin Pearcy Class E, MG Metro Turbo/1275. The only other guys I recongnise from the race are David Thomas (Capri) and David Nixon (Avenger).

[terence]

Dont know if you,ve read the earlier postings but I was responsible for the Bastos paint job while it was in Arthurs ownership. The car was incredably docile to drive.

[chrisgram]

Originally Posted by GBRM

If you tell me where he lives I will confirm or deny if that is near Jeff Allam but no giving out of addresses!!

The Tel I have is 07753477xxx. I have motitted the last 3 Nos on the basis that it shows the area without breaching someone's confidentiality. Does this sound about right? I could give the full No. off line if you want. i.e., This is NOT Jeff Allam's No but apparently someone who knows him and lives just down the road.

[KA]

Found this pic from the Kemora 'Midnight Sun' race in Finland in 1987- it's a bit distant, but fom the accompanying race result, the SD1 on the right-hand side of the pic seems to be the Kaj Bornebusch car that made a few ETCC appearances in 1987/8
http://personal.inet.fi/surf/mpuumal.../M1_slide5.htm

[Peter Mallett]

Off topic comment alert I have to type this or my brain will explode! Chris, That loks like a UK mobile number. Thanks for reading, you've been a wonderful audience. Don't forget to try the veal and tip your waitress. We now return you to the topic

[TWR ROVER]

Originally Posted by GBRM

TWR Rover - If there is any info you need on 005 then let me know, it was my Dad (Gerry Marshall) that bought and supplied it to Colin Pearcy and then to Arthur Carter and the guy who helps me run my Droop Snoot (Vince) looked after the car whilst in Dad and Colin's hands and knows it very well.

hi Gregor
yes it would be so good to know more about the history of 005.
Ken Clarke has given us a pretty good history of the car in its TWR days,although a little more detail about its race history in the early/mid eighties would be good.
Are you able to tell us about its post TWR history,race history/ownership etc?
The car is in quite remarkable condition,very straight and will present as new when we finish with its restoration.
why did it end up in Bastos colours in Artur Carters collection?that puzzles me a little.

any more info would be really appreciated,we especially need some photos of it in Marlboro colours from the rear and of the roof as we are handpainting the graphics and logos now...the marlboro red looks amazing...took a little effort to source the right type of paint.

regards
Allan Dippie(N Z)

[Peter Mallett]

It was in Bastos colours when Colin Pearcey owned it.

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by TWR ROVER

hi Gregor
yes it would be so good to know more about the history of 005.
Ken Clarke has given us a pretty good history of the car in its TWR days,although a little more detail about its race history in the early/mid eighties would be good.
Are you able to tell us about its post TWR history,race history/ownership etc?
The car is in quite remarkable condition,very straight and will present as new when we finish with its restoration.
why did it end up in Bastos colours in Artur Carters collection?that puzzles me a little.

any more info would be really appreciated,we especially need some photos of it in Marlboro colours from the rear and of the roof as we are handpainting the graphics and logos now...the marlboro red looks amazing...took a little effort to source the right type of paint.

regards
Allan Dippie(N Z)

As Peter said, Colin had it in Bastos colours and the differant colour schemes it has been through are mentioned in this thread IIRC. When Colin decided to sell, Dad got Arthur to buy it and I think (mentioned above) it was re-painted still in Bastos colours when there.

I can't remember when Colin bought it, it was about '88 and Dad did all the research for him (they were best friends and enighbours) and Colin bought it to go in his collection of works MG Bs, As & Cs and his works MG Metro Turbo. As anyone will tell you Colin was/is very good at spending money, so it was well looked after by Vince and I think Roger Dowson did some of the work too (he looked after whatever Vince couldn't).

The Rover didn't do too much in Colin and Arthur's hands, Colin did a couple of test/track days, I don;t think he ever raced it and I think Dad just did the one race that has been mentioned. I don't think Arthur did aynthing with it either, he doesn't strike me as a "user" collector.

Did you buy it from the Arthur's auction?

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by KA

Found this pic from the Kemora 'Midnight Sun' race in Finland in 1987- it's a bit distant, but fom the accompanying race result, the SD1 on the right-hand side of the pic seems to be the Kaj Bornebusch car that made a few ETCC appearances in 1987/8
http://personal.inet.fi/surf/mpuumal.../M1_slide5.htm

There was a second Vitesse at Kemora '87 held on July 18 as this link tells: http://personal.inet.fi/surf/mpuumal...5_tulokset.htm. The Harri Ruusu/Juhani Lammila/Matti Hiltunen car could be a candidate for car 75 in the picture. My guess is that the 75 is this Finnish entry rather than the Bornebusch ditto.
When I saw the Bornebusch Rover five weeks later, it was plain white and running on bright red Speedline rims. Having just aquired a batch of 1987 Autosport magazines, the race report for the Anderstorp ETCC race positively says that the Bornebusch car was the '86 Allam/Hulme TT winner but no chassis number given.

Jesper

[KA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

There was a second Vitesse at Kemora '87 held on July 18 as this link tells: http://personal.inet.fi/surf/mpuumal...5_tulokset.htm. The Harri Ruusu/Juhani Lammila/Matti Hiltunen car could be a candidate for car 75 in the picture. My guess is that the 75 is this Finnish entry rather than the Bornebusch ditto.
When I saw the Bornebusch Rover five weeks later, it was plain white and running on bright red Speedline rims. Having just aquired a batch of 1987 Autosport magazines, the race report for the Anderstorp ETCC race positively says that the Bornebusch car was the '86 Allam/Hulme TT winner but no chassis number given.

Jesper

Thanks Jesper- I'd missed the Ruusu/Lammila/Hiltunen car in the results list...
Don't suppose you know anything about the history of that one- ex-TWR, locally-built in Finland or ex-Germany etc?

I was looking back through some old Autosports a few weeks back so remember the Anderstorp report referring to the Bornebusch car being the TT winner- your description of a white car on red Speedlines definitely matches the Istel-liveried Allam/Hulme car
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-07-009.jpg

[chrisgram]

This photo is interesting. Istel was the Hulme car which I had thought was #20, originally in Bastos livery, however note that the C pillar doesn't have the air jacking points. This is interesting.

Originally Posted by KA

Thanks Jesper- I'd missed the Ruusu/Lammila/Hiltunen car in the results list...
Don't suppose you know anything about the history of that one- ex-TWR, locally-built in Finland or ex-Germany etc?

I was looking back through some old Autosports a few weeks back so remember the Anderstorp report referring to the Bornebusch car being the TT winner- your description of a white car on red Speedlines definitely matches the Istel-liveried Allam/Hulme car
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-07-009.jpg

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by chrisgram

This photo is interesting. Istel was the Hulme car which I had thought was #20, originally in Bastos livery, however note that the C pillar doesn't have the air jacking points. This is interesting.

That's a great picture just for the pure fact it's outside the BRDC and I'd forgotten about those sh1tty outside toilets and standing on the roof of the lunch area to see...oh how the BRDC has changed!!

[KA]

Originally Posted by chrisgram

This photo is interesting. Istel was the Hulme car which I had thought was #20, originally in Bastos livery, however note that the C pillar doesn't have the air jacking points. This is interesting.

We discussed the air jacking points a few pages back- there seem to be several variations in them between the Bastos cars- some have them in two circular recesses in the left-hand C pillar, some have them in a rectangular recess in the LH C pillar, and some (Allan's 018 for example) also have one on the RH C pillar....

The rectangular version mainly appears in the earlier 1983/4 season cars, and I did wonder if it's appearance on some Bastos cars suggests the re-use of earlier cars/shells?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by KA

The rectangular version mainly appears in the earlier 1983/4 season cars, and I did wonder if it's appearance on some Bastos cars suggests the re-use of earlier cars/shells?

Woah, getting a bit techy for me guys!!

Yes KA I think you're definitely onto something there. We know for example that one of the '84 Fleet cars (008, assuming that was a new chassis in itself, we don't yet know?) became a Bastos car in 1985, was shunted and rebuilt and continued on into 1986?

That's one possible car, so there maybe others?

I also wonder if we could get any closer looks at the ex TWR cars that Chatfield, Griffin (Malrboro liveried, this surely has to be either 005 or 013), Leech ran in '87/88 to see the jacking pillar points which might help us to identify which TWR chassis they bought.

We're also due a new list from ken for 1984 or 85 aren't we??

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Woah, getting a bit techy for me guys!!

Yes KA I think you're definitely onto something there. We know for example that one of the '84 Fleet cars (008, assuming that was a new chassis in itself, we don't yet know?) became a Bastos car in 1985, was shunted and rebuilt and continued on into 1986?

That's one possible car, so there maybe others?

I also wonder if we could get any closer looks at the ex TWR cars that Chatfield, Griffin (Malrboro liveried, this surely has to be either 005 or 013), Leech ran in '87/88 to see the jacking pillar points which might help us to identify which TWR chassis they bought.

We're also due a new list from ken for 1984 or 85 aren't we??

As far as I can see, there are 3 versions- on 1983/4 cars (Hepolite, Fleet, Gitnaes etc) it's a rectangular recess in the c pillar;
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-29-026.jpg


On '85 season Bastos cars there are 2 round holes, the lower one just above the Rover script:
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-28-001.jpg

The rectangular version turns up on some 85-season Bastos cars, but I've never yet seen it on an 83/4 season car
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-28-007.jpg
helpfully highlighted in white...it's also visible in one of the cars at Donington 85 in the pics posted a couple of pages back, and on the white Bastos car from Estoril 85 earlier in the thread

On 86 Bastos cars, the holes are more widely spaced, and there's an additional one on the right-hand side.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-04-06-008.jpg
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-03-007.jpg
Again, I've not seen this feature in an earlier photo, but both earlier versions appear on 86-season cars:

1983/4 rectangle:
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-08-03-009.jpg

1985 2 holes with no extra one on the right
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-07-009.jpg
From a pic I've seen of the LH side of the Istel car, the holes for the airjack connections are closer-spaced as on the 85 cars...

Think the pics of the Chatfield and Kevin Eaton cars earlier in the thread look like the '86' version...

[KA]

Originally Posted by KA

The rectangular version turns up on some 85-season Bastos cars, but I've never yet seen it on an 83/4 season car

Sorry, that doesn't make any sense- I meant to say I'd never seen the round version on an 83/4 car.....

[TWR ROVER]

Originally Posted by GBRM

As Peter said, Colin had it in Bastos colours and the differant colour schemes it has been through are mentioned in this thread IIRC. When Colin decided to sell, Dad got Arthur to buy it and I think (mentioned above) it was re-painted still in Bastos colours when there.

I can't remember when Colin bought it, it was about '88 and Dad did all the research for him (they were best friends and enighbours) and Colin bought it to go in his collection of works MG Bs, As & Cs and his works MG Metro Turbo. As anyone will tell you Colin was/is very good at spending money, so it was well looked after by Vince and I think Roger Dowson did some of the work too (he looked after whatever Vince couldn't).

The Rover didn't do too much in Colin and Arthur's hands, Colin did a couple of test/track days, I don;t think he ever raced it and I think Dad just did the one race that has been mentioned. I don't think Arthur did aynthing with it either, he doesn't strike me as a "user" collector.

Did you buy it from the Arthur's auction?

thats intersting...i didnt know Colin had owned the car previously,did he buy it directly from TWR or was it privateered for a while after its TWR days i wonder?

We did not know about Arturs auction being way out here on the dark side in the colonies and all (presumably the car did not sell because you Brits do not know a good thing when you see it!,or alternatively the reserve was too high)We eventually purchased the car sight unseen after some fairly protracted negoiations some months later i imagine.

We found out about the car by accident,a friend of mind who collects ex works datsuns was buying one of Arthurs 240z's off him and here is this Bastos car in the background of the photos,stored in what looked like ex chicken sheds but presumably thats were you keeps cows over there.

Anyway my friend mentions this to me and suggests i buy a spare car for #018....we could not find much info out about it at the time however ,we knew it wasnt a bastos car...too early a chassis #...but we were dealing with Arthurs agent,accountant or some such,knew not a gander about race cars...so when it did arrive we were pleased with both its condition and its pedigree of which we have since found alot more about...hence its restoration in Marlboro colours.

The cars last race may be interesting ,it still has a dated sructineering sticker on its side window ,ill check that out,probably your father was driving?

The car also arrived with a really trick and well speced motor,twin plenum and all,one of the last...it didnt get that by accident ,someone in the know and with good connections..your father maybe?

[terence]

2 40z? We have a friend in common!.When Arthur bought the car,it was in either Marlboro or esso colours,Red chevron on bonnet and red on rear flanks.After I repainted the car to one of Arthurs whims,I drove it around the estate a few times,washed it and placed it into the collection.THe engine was exactly as bought,no mechanical work was performed on the car whatsoever.The car then stayed in the collection for something like30yrs.It was never ever raced whilst in Arthurs ownership,I dont think that it had been started untill it was finally removed from the collection by Rob,it was then auctioned off.THE pearcy car,I saw race at SPA ,This was whilst Arthurs was still in the paintshop awaiting my return from racing at Spa,I then had the task of masking off for Bastos to be painted on it!!.I was not going to bother even looking at this thread again but curiosity got the better of me,just for the record,in the 20yrs I worked for Arthur ,there were on ly ever 4 cars taken from the collection,they being 1]Connaught 2]MGC GTS Replica 3]F4.4]TR7,fitted with a Sprint engine. I hope this is of some use to you and long may you enjoy the car,I,m sorry that it doe,s not have any "Gerry" history,but at least you know now! Have you spoken to Jeff recently?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by terence bower

2 40z? We have a friend in common!.When Arthur bought the car,it was in either Marlboro or esso colours,Red chevron on bonnet and red on rear flanks.After I repainted the car to one of Arthurs whims,I drove it around the estate a few times,washed it and placed it into the collection.THe engine was exactly as bought,no mechanical work was performed on the car whatsoever.The car then stayed in the collection for something like30yrs. I was not going to bother even looking at this thread again but curiosity got the better of me.

Right so the livery you originally 'received' it in was red and white chevrons so is definitely Marlboro colours. I thought you originally said it was plain white? Glad we've got to the bottom of that one Terence. Great stuff

Surely it can't have been still for 30 years??!! 15-20 at a push I would've thought. I still think that this might be the car that Bill Griffin entered a couple of '87 BTCC and modsaloon rounds with. Nobody else has yet come forward with any other recollections of the Griffin/Marlboro Vitesse outings which will have been either in 005 or possibly 013? Perhaps it only entered the '87 BTCC finale or something to 'advertise it'

Why didn'y you think you'd want to look at the thread anymore Terence? Your thoughts and imput have been brilliant.

[terence]

It was the Bournebusch[spelling?] car that was just in white.Your right,30 is a bit high,Athur bought the car approx 81/2.It was put into Bastos colours 2/3 weeks later.He had a thing about SD1s for a while,he was a bit faddy!.I left Arthur in 94 for BTCC,the two cars were still there in 2004 when they were sold off by Arthurs Adviser,as were most of the other car,s.I,m sorry for confusing the issue with the chevrons,but a lot has happened since those day,s.I will make an effort an find the before and after photos,every one can then see that the "Bastos" car was painted into that scheme after Arthur bought it. Colin Pearcy did indeed own another car,it was driven by him and a guy named Chris -------,I can,t remember his surname unfortunatly.So the scenario is that Arthurs was never used in competition at all whilst in his ownership.At that time ,there was,nt much it could be used in.Collins entry at Spa was only a grid filler in one of the BSS races ,an annual event at the circuit.

[ian.stewart]

Just a bit on the side, When I bought some bits for my Rover build, a fella I went to see had some raw un machined blocks sitting in his garage, I know what a Rover Stiff block looks like, and thise were Not Standard castings, the valley webs inside the engines were about twice the thickness of standard as were the main cap webs, I wish I had bought one now,
About the only thing I know about one of the cars spares package was being sold off, may have been TWR ETCC as I bought a Wilkinshaw ETCC cam from the company, for the life of me I cant remember the name of them, but they were in the middle of the Norfolk Fens behind a farm, Rovertec? seems to ring a bell.
Ian

[TWR ROVER]

Originally Posted by terence bower

It was the Bournebusch[spelling?] car that was just in white.Your right,30 is a bit high,Athur bought the car approx 81/2.It was put into Bastos colours 2/3 weeks later.He had a thing about SD1s for a while,he was a bit faddy!.I left Arthur in 94 for BTCC,the two cars were still there in 2004 when they were sold off by Arthurs Adviser,as were most of the other car,s.I,m sorry for confusing the issue with the chevrons,but a lot has happened since those day,s.I will make an effort an find the before and after photos,every one can then see that the "Bastos" car was painted into that scheme after Arthur bought it. Colin Pearcy did indeed own another car,it was driven by him and a guy named Chris -------,I can,t remember his surname unfortunatly.So the scenario is that Arthurs was never used in competition at all whilst in his ownership.At that time ,there was,nt much it could be used in.Collins entry at Spa was only a grid filler in one of the BSS races ,an annual event at the circuit.

thanks Terence,that really is interesting info and does explain how the car ended up in Bastos colours "on Arthurs whim" as you put it.It would have been much later in the eighties when it came to your collection at the earliest not 81/82 and yes you are correct about the marboro red...we found that under neath your paint especially under the windows when we popped them out....meant we were able to get the marboro colours in the correct place as originally...Arthur cetainly had a great collection and it is nice to have something so original and unmolestered to restore and race oncemore.

[terence]

The good thing is that someone is ACTUALY going to race it again,it was always a bit strange to drive a car into the collection and think it would be there forever!.I really hope you have a lot of fun with it and may it go well. At one point it was reconned that Arthur had the best private collection in the UK,I know that after the 21 cars I did for him,he had 73 cars in there ,from BRMs to Ex Works Minis etc.