[BTCC] BTCC 2020 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by mark_l

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_57

Tomato Sauce is red

I can already hear Tim Harvey & David Addison saying things like " He's trying to ketchup with the car in front"!

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by mark_l

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_57

Tomato Sauce is red

.

[antnee]

Hamilton is out testing today. His car has the 'old' rear arch extensions on, so looks like Hard are trying the old setups again.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Robshillito1990

no matter how much money he brought to the table

does he even bring that ?

[Robshillito1990]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

does he even bring that ?

Clearly not just a lot of talk and bull**** haha

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by antnee

Hamilton is out testing today. His car has the 'old' rear arch extensions on, so looks like Hard are trying the old setups again.

Back to the 2017 spec rear arches but obviously still with the Kingston spec shortened wheelbase

[mj088]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Back to the 2017 spec rear arches but obviously still with the Kingston spec shortened wheelbase

What's Geoff doing these days? After chopping up the Hard VWs he vanished only to reappear with Matt Simpson and bought little success. Is he still associated with any team?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I can already hear Tim Harvey & David Addison saying things like " He's trying to ketchup with the car in front"!

"He's all over the Ginster's sponsored car"

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Back to the 2017 spec rear arches but obviously still with the Kingston spec shortened wheelbase

How did they achieve a shortened wheelbase?

My understanding of the build regs is that they state that the ROPS design should be referenced against fixed points on the front/rear subframes. These fixed points match the wheelbase of the roadgoing car - which for the CC has not changed from being 2,710mm since 2008?

In 2013, Thorney said this about choosing their model:
'Any car (subject to TOCA specification on doors, roofline and availability in the UK market can be used as a base model but as all the cars share the same suspension geometry, brakes and even a common engine (optional control engine) the aerodynamics and wheelbase are the most crucial aspects to consider.'

Excelr8 described their Hyundai as having 'some properties which suit the [current-spec BTCC] NGTC design very well, such as the overhangs and the wheelbase.'.

If teams can modify the wheelbase of a car why is it an important factor in selecting the model?

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

How did they achieve a shortened wheelbase?

I say wheelbase, I just meant the post Kingston cars. I'm not sure where the changes were made

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Pickles

I say wheelbase, I just meant the post Kingston cars. I'm not sure where the changes were made

Understood. I wonder how much the changes were just to 'sell' the cars as being heavily reworked? Laser Tools are going down the new chassis route.

I'd be surprised if the wheelbase on an NGTC car can be altered. The sub frames are common so a change of wheelbase would need a redesign (and submission for homologation) of the ROPS.

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Understood. I wonder how much the changes were just to 'sell' the cars as being heavily reworked? Laser Tools are going down the new chassis route.

I'd be surprised if the wheelbase on an NGTC car can be altered. The sub frames are common so a change of wheelbase would need a redesign (and submission for homologation) of the ROPS.

Good point, when Kingston got involved the cars were heavily reworked and this was when the revised rear aero came in as well. Presumably with Bushell back they've gone back to the data etc that he'd worked with as they seemed to be making some progress later that year

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Good point, when Kingston got involved the cars were heavily reworked and this was when the revised rear aero came in as well. Presumably with Bushell back they've gone back to the data etc that he'd worked with as they seemed to be making some progress later that year

Which iteration of Kingston working with the cars are we referring to?

5th Ap 2018 - 'our head engineer Geoff Kingston was really pleased with what we achieved'
11th Jan 2018 - 'The addition of engineer Geoff Kingston to the team (From Speedworks) should help the team find more speed from their cars.'
8th Dec 2017 - 'With the new technical input from [newly signed engineer] Geoff Kingston'

27th Jan 2014 - 'Team owner Warren Scott, who has brought in Geoff Kingston as chief engineer, said'
6th Mar 2014 - 'My engineer from 2014, Geoff Kingston, moved across to Warren [Scott]’s operation just after the final round'
28th Jan 2014 - 'With Geoff Kingston there as our engineer'

Did he do such a good job in 2014 that he had to start again in 2018?

[billy bleach]

Is it actually of any benefit to slate this Guy when he clearly has no way to reply. This all seems to be based on hearsay and little solid facts. Where is it defined that the wheelbase was altered ? How can this be do e without moving the subdrame mounts? Seems to me people are getting g stuck I to the Guy with little to back it up....

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Which iteration of Kingston working with the cars are we referring to?

I was talking about when he joined at the end of 2017

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I'd be surprised if the wheelbase on an NGTC car can be altered. The sub frames are common so a change of wheelbase would need a redesign (and submission for homologation) of the ROPS.

Care were reworked by Willie Poole prior to the 2018 season "to make the wheelbase shorter", that's from Willie himself. ROPS hasn't changed, or at least TOCA's scrutineering sheet shows the same number.

I don't know specifically what was changed. The regs do say the wheelbase has to match the roadgoing car but from what I recall there is a +/- tolerance allowed so there is a (very) small amount of wriggle-room.

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Is it actually of any benefit to slate this Guy when he clearly has no way to reply. This all seems to be based on hearsay and little solid facts. Where is it defined that the wheelbase was altered ? How can this be do e without moving the subdrame mounts? Seems to me people are getting g stuck I to the Guy with little to back it up....

I'm not slating anyone, just suggesting that with going back to the earlier bodywork that maybe the HARD guys are going in a different direction 👍

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Care were reworked by Willie Poole prior to the 2018 season "to make the wheelbase shorter", that's from Willie himself. ROPS hasn't changed, or at least TOCA's scrutineering sheet shows the same number.

I don't know specifically what was changed. The regs do say the wheelbase has to match the roadgoing car but from what I recall there is a +/- tolerance allowed so there is a (very) small amount of wriggle-room.

I think I've got to the bottom of it.
The wording of the subframe attachments reads:

'The front axle is Y from the A-post datum point, which is determined from the base vehicle’s homologated wheel position.
Y is defined as X (181mm Front Subframe) + bulkhead connections from A-post datum to subframe.
The tube layout in the area labelled as ‘Bulkhead’ is free, however the design must be submitted to TOCA for approval.'

They also state that 'the wheelbase of the race car must remain within the +/-10mm tolerance of the homologated road car figure'

If the CC's were 2,720 mm when first entered (+10mm road car), then in theory it is possible that 20 mm could be removed from the bulkhead tubing bringing the car down to 2,700mm and still complying with regulations.
This would require new bulkhead design, which would not have been cheap, and something that I would not imagine anyone else doing to the CCs again to lengthen them.

The result of this would be the front axles being further rear in relation to the arches of the body, which explains the need to change the arch aero package. HARD might be trying to get aero that was more akin to the early iteration.

[porsche962fan]

shouldn't we start the 2020 prediction thread ?

only 2 seats left but unlese one is Shedden anybody else will be just midfiled at best

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

shouldn't we start the 2020 prediction thread ?

only 2 seats left but unlese one is Shedden anybody else will be just midfiled at best

There are a lot of drivers aside from Shedden who are capable of more than midfield.

[Jay87]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

shouldn't we start the 2020 prediction thread ?

only 2 seats left but unlese one is Shedden anybody else will be just midfiled at best

Motorbase selling a car transporter. Could be completely irrelevant of course

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

There are a lot of drivers aside from Shedden who are capable of more than midfield.

you really imagine some high caliber driver like Shedden in any of those seats left ?

if so which ones ?

[HarryBrown]

Anyone know what tordoff is up to this year?

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[Pdh]

Originally Posted by Jay87

Motorbase selling a car transporter. Could be completely irrelevant of course

It’s completely irrelevant it was the truck the team used doing Porsche carrera cup last year

[Robshillito1990]

Originally Posted by HarryBrown

Anyone know what tordoff is up to this year?

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Concentrating on home life I'd imagine. Much more important than the btcc with what happened last year.